Received on the tongue for the first time today

[Pat_the_elder]

Yes, I was aware that “East” is the direction. “Toward Liturgical East.”
What is the difference between Compass East and “Liturgical East”. As I’ve already said Churches in my area dont seem to be laid out in any specific way as regards direction

Pat

 

[SHW]

Continued:

Noone has labeled anyone less holy, so it would be better that this straw man is laid to rest. It is the practice which is rightly labeled irreverent in light of the abuses and sacrileges which it paves the way for. Belief in the Real Presence has plummeted since this was not only instituted but normalized and preferred by renegade Bishops in defiance of Paul VI’s own teachings.

Hmmm, I did not get that impression from some of the posters on this thread. (Originally posted by soflochristmas: “I suppose it’s possible he has regularly homilized on this subject and it’s equally possible those parishoners like dissenters on this group make life hell for him…so it may be easier to just surrender this ground the way some others are considering doing here.” See Post #136 for more comments like this. forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=5428936&postcount=136)

It seems to me that soflochristmas meant that if you receive CITH, then you would also probably be a dissenter concerning Church doctrines. If I am mistaken, I apologize, but soflochristmas has not posted since my post #136 so he/she has not explained if this is what was meant by his/her comments.

Personally, I believe that priests are entitled to their own opinions as long as their opinions do not contradict Catholic doctrine and also do not intimidate people into following the priests’ own private opinions. From what he/she said, it certainly doesn’t look like the priest forbade people from receiving CITH. Did people feel intimidated? I don’t know.

**That being said, it is the misuse of the practice of CITH that is irreverent, not the practice itself and this is clearly shown in the pious instruction given by the ECF on how to receive CITH reverently. **

Some “drunk” people will choose to drive cars while drunk and they will kill other (non-drunk) people who are also driving cars. I do not see that preventing everyone from driving cars (by passing a law) is the fair and just response to prevent drunk drivers from killing even though this law will definitely prevent all car crashes, whether by drunks or non-drunks.

 

[SHW]

SHW;5432972:

Yes, I was aware that “East” is the direction. “Toward Liturgical East.”

What is the difference between Compass East and “Liturgical East”. As I’ve already said Churches in my area dont seem to be laid out in any specific way as regards direction

Pat

I believe that they are the same.

“The cosmic symbol of the rising sun expresses the universality of God above all particular places and yet maintains the concreteness of Divine Revelation.”__ Cardinal Ratzinger adoremus.org/0500-Ratzinger.html

It does not surprise me that some churches (built since Vatican II) are not oriented towards liturgical east.

Vatican II was “cited” as the source for a myriad of alleged mandatory “changes” foisted on the faithful. Too bad we did not have the internet back then. I doubt that the “Modernists” would have gotten away so easily with their machinations to dismantle the Church from within if we had had access to the actual documents as we do now today online.

 

[Pat_the_elder]

I believe that they are the same.

“The cosmic symbol of the rising sun expresses the universality of God above all particular places and yet maintains the concreteness of Divine Revelation.”__ Cardinal Ratzinger adoremus.org/0500-Ratzinger.html

It does not surprise me that some churches (built since Vatican II) are not oriented towards liturgical east.

Vatican II was “cited” as the source for a myriad of alleged mandatory “changes” foisted on the faithful. Too bad we did not have the internet back then. I doubt that the “Modernists” would have gotten away so easily with their machinations to dismantle the Church from within if we had had access to the actual documents as we do now today online.

Thanks SHW. The churches I was referring to date from 1842, 1844, 1900, 1935 and 1980. only the 1842 one faces easterly. However looking at some pre-reformation churches in the area, none of them these days Catholic, it looks like all of these are east facing.
Pat

 

[Pat_the_elder]

Also It looks like the Lateran Basilica in Rome is West facing. So perhaps other factors have influenced churches layout since the dawn of Christendom?

 

[SHW]

Also It looks like the Lateran Basilica in Rome is West facing. So perhaps other factors have influenced churches layout since the dawn of Christendom?

It is, according to Cardinal Ratzinger, in the article that I linked in a previous post. Since not everything was written down about everything, speculation as to “why” is addressed in this paper The Altar and the Direction of Liturgical Prayer.

 

[Pat_the_elder]

Ok SHW. I’ve read the article you referenced. It seems to me that the Pontiff has come up with a very good idea ( “of course he should - He’s the POPE”. I hear you all cry!) that the Crucifix should be the “interior east” of any church, and therefore be the focus. This I totally agree with. However, the practice of worshiping towards the east predates all the monotheic religions. Surely we can recognise God’s Greatness and Majesty without recourse to a compass. Of course I maybe wrong on this one also… Look I’m just about to go to Mass. I’ll pray for us all, but if anyone has any special intention and can put it on this thread I’ll remember them especially in my prayers.

Pat

 

[mary1173]

Coder,
I live in Ireland. I have no idea what the official norm is here, although people usually receive standing. However, in my parish, the Communion rails are used, so many people, but not all, kneel, as the rail makes this less awkward.

In America it was at one time considered a ‘‘norm’’ to go to the alter rail and kneel to receiveon the tongue. My mother’s oldparish used to have rails for kneelingto receive the eucharist. She used to kneel and pray before receiving on the tongue. It is alright to follow the standards used in the churches as you receive the eucharist. Congrats on receiving on the tongue Soler. And if Deacons or Ecumenical members offer the eucharist do not despair about lay persons offering hosts. Those persons are doing nothing wrong by helping the priests give out Christ’s body or blood. To refuse to eat the eucharist is a bigger slap in the face to God than taking the eucharist in the hand or on the tongue from a lay person…let alone a Deacon or Ecumen.

God’s Blessings be with you every day!

Mary1173

 

[mary1173]

bpbasilphx;5363978:

And just why is your TONGUE more worthy?

My tongue is not more worthy, as my whole body is unworthy, I personally feel the less contact with the hands, the less likelihood of a mishap with the Eucharist.

I feel this way too. I don’t want the eucharist to fall on the floor, and our parish priest does not always use the paten, therefore, I don’t try to handle the host out of concern over dropping it.
Nice to know others feel as clumsy as I do about receiving our Lord…(I was beginning to think it was just me!)

 

[pnewton]

Surely we can recognise God’s Greatness and Majesty without recourse to a compass.

Boy this thread is jumping all over, but I think this rabbit can easily be put to rest. The reason for the posture of facing liturgical east is to symbolically show our hope in the coming of the Lord. We look to the east because from there comes our salvation. As in all postures, they mean something and help focus our mind on what it is we are doing/praying. There is a whole chapter on this in Spirit of the Liturgy.

 

[Pat_the_elder]

Sorry P. I know that its not really where the thread should be going but I found the bit about the orientation of the church building fascinating. Having found that the minority of churches in my area (BTW Most Pre-date VII) dont face east and having looked at Pope Benedict’s (Cardinal R as he was) writings on this, I wondered if it was REALLY important

Pat
P.S. Dont shoot me down in flames for wondering LOL

 

[pnewton]

Pat
P.S. Dont shoot me down in flames for wondering LOL

Oh, not at all. No flame intended. I said it was an easy one to catch and I didn’t mind one bit responding. I would like to suggest if you can get a hold of The Spirit of the Liturgy it goes into this for a chapter. Our Pope is quite the liturgist.

 

[savienu]

Ok, something’s been bugging me and I want to ask it. If we can all agree that our goal as Christians is to always increase the reverence and honor we give to God, let me ask this:

How does receiving in the hand, standing, INCREASE reverence compared to receiving on the tongue, kneeling? I’m not interested in the typical “it’s allowed, don’t knock it” responses. I really want to know how it increases reverence.

 

[Pat_the_elder]

Ok, something’s been bugging me and I want to ask it. If we can all agree that our goal as Christians is to always increase the reverence and honor we give to God, let me ask this:

How does receiving in the hand, standing, INCREASE reverence compared to receiving on the tongue, kneeling? I’m not interested in the typical “it’s allowed, don’t knock it” responses. I really want to know how it increases reverence.

I don’t think it increases or decreases the reverence and honour given to God, and I don’t think anyone has claimed so. We can go round in circles all day…

Pat

 

[savienu]

I don’t think it increases or decreases the reverence and honour given to God, and I don’t think anyone has claimed so. We can go round in circles all day…

Pat

Shouldn’t we always be trying to increase reverence towards God? If it does nothing to increase reverence (and arguably decreases reverence amongst those of weaker faith), why do it?

 

[Pat_the_elder]

I don’t think it increases or decreases the reverence and honour given to God, and I don’t think anyone has claimed so. We can go round in circles all day…

Pat

Let me put it another way. Two people go to Communion. One kneels and receives the Eucharist on the tongue, but is still angry over an argument they had the evening before. The other person has examined their conscience before communion and has asked God’s forgivness for any wrongs they have done then goes up standing and receives the Blessed Sacrament in their hand. Who has given God the greater honour and reverence?

Pat

 

[maurin]

Let me put it another way. Two people go to Communion. One kneels and receives the Eucharist on the tongue, but is still angry over an argument they had the evening before. The other person has examined their conscience before communion and has asked God’s forgivness for any wrongs they have done then goes up standing and receives the Blessed Sacrament in their hand. Who has given God the greater honour and reverence?

Pat

It depends, Pat. Is the former’s anger just? And if it isn’t, had he gone to Confession before Mass? Following the advice of his Confessor, was he absolved of his sin? Does he want to forgive, have that desire, but just can’t yet?

And did the latter ask forgiveness Sacramentally, or did he do so only interiorly?

 

[Pat_the_elder]

I think what I’m trying to say is that there is a lot more to reverence and honour than what people see you doing. I go back to Jesus’ castigation of the Pharisees for their insistance on following the letter of the law whilst disregarding the spirit of that law

Pat

 

[savienu]

I think what I’m trying to say is that there is a lot more to reverence and honour than what people see you doing. I go back to Jesus’ castigation of the Pharisees for their insistance on following the letter of the law whilst disregarding the spirit of that law

Pat

Yet it’s the CITH crowd who is insisting on the “letter of the law” since the argument is “it’s allowed right now,” ignoring that it is only allowed because an indult was given AFTER it began as an act of grave disobedience.

So tell me, can something that began as an act of grave disobedience EVER give more honor and reverence to God than the normal means of reception that sustained and nourished saints such as St. Thomas Aquinas, Gianna Molla, and St. Therese of Liseux?

 

[pnewton]

So tell me, can something that began as an act of grave disobedience EVER give more honor and reverence to God than the normal means of reception…

I do not think a soul here has said “more honor” in the act of receiving in the hand as an objective means. I gave my rather subjective situation earlier, but that applies to no one but me.