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Ockham
Guest
Bingo! Who is being disrespectful?
If you know the guidelines why don’t you share them with the rest of us now?
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If you know the guidelines why don’t you share them with the rest of us now?
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tweetymom
Guest
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Ockham
Guest
Actually Digger, I’m the one who is waiting. I challenged you and yours to put together a sound argument for CITH and all you’ve offered is insults, personal preference, rebellion, and “it’s in the GIRM”. My argument is based on centuries of Church teaching, direction from popes, saints, and theologians. If you can’t bark on this porch then do the honorable thing and get off it.
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Ockham
Guest
My question is do you understand the guidelines the Church established for EMHCs? Do you just make things up to suit your desires? Is the liturgy a personal toy for you to use at your discretion?I really do not understand your questions, but that shouldn’t surprise anyone! And what I am saying is that perhaps one day you and those perfect people like you will start your own church out in the desert somewhere where you can make up your own rules that you approve of’
At no time did I state I’m perfect. God is perfect. That’s why I receive God in the most reverent way possible.
The Catholic Church was formed in the desert, the Holy Land. I follow the Church Christ established at Matthew 16 and obediently follow its teachings and traditions. You and the other CITH folk are the ones instituting your own version of the liturgy similar to Luther and the other “reformers”. Maybe you could form a church after your name like Luther, Calvin, Knox, and others.
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tweetymom
Guest
I never make things up to suit my purpose! And the liturgy is certainally not a toy. You are really off base. And good for you that you receive God in the way you chose so be it. I feel just as reverent when I give or receive Communione. If it makes you feel reverent good! I have not instituted my own verson only doing what I was taught by our Priest:thumbsup And maybe you can name your Church, Iam doing things right accordind to me
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Ockham
Guest
Here are some interesting articles on the subject: catholictradition.org/Eucharist/communion.htm
How come the CITH folk don’t provide any quotes, links, or sources to support their position?
How come the CITH folk don’t provide any quotes, links, or sources to support their position?
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Ockham
Guest
So are you going to share the guidelines for EMHCs or not?I never make things up to suit my purpose! And the liturgy is certainally not a toy. You are really off base. And good for you that you receive God in the way you chose so be it. I feel just as reverent when I give or receive Communione. If it makes you feel reverent good! I have not instituted my own verson only doing what I was taught by our Priest:thumbsup And maybe you can name your Church, Iam doing things right accordind to me
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Tsuwano
Guest
To tell a person that you are not praying for them has to be one of the saddest and least Catholic posts I’ve ever read on this site. I would hope differences of opinion would not lessen our desire to love others as the Lord himself has loved us. If it does, then it doesn’t matter whether you recieve communion in the hand or on the tongue at all. We’re all just clanging gongs making noise.
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tweetymom
Guest
Why don’t you and tell me what I am doing wrong. You seem to like doing that, and wouldn’t want to steal your thunder. I went thru them with our Priest!!!
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tweetymom
Guest
Amen Amen, Whew. right on
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Ockham
Guest
Give me a break. Are you praying for me? For everyone? I’m just being honest. The context of that remark went like this: I said I was praying for patience, Digger thanked me for praying for him, I let him know that in fact I’m not praying specifically for him. Where’s the crime?
Honestly, do you people read beyond the latest post? It would explain a few things.
Bring a solid argument to this thread or find someplace else to blow the Progressive wind.
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tweetymom
Guest
And you?
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Ockham
Guest
This is the most childish post I’ve seen in quite awhile.Why don’t you and tell me what I am doing wrong. You seem to like doing that, and wouldn’t want to steal your thunder. I went thru them with our Priest!!!
Do you know the guidelines or not? If so, post them if you have any self-respect. As an EMHC I know you have self-importance. Walk the talk…
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Ockham
Guest
Vatican on Communion in the hand
This response by the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments was sent to us by Father Paul McDonald, of Niagara-on-the-Lake, Diocese of Saint Catherines in Ontario, Canada. The response appeared in Notitiae (April 1999), the official publication of the CDW, regarding the reception of Communion. The translation is Father McDonald’s. - Editor
Query: Whether in dioceses where it is allowed to distribute Communion in the hands of the faithful, a priest or extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion may restrict communicants to receive Communion only in their hands, not on the tongue.
Response: Certainly it is clear from the very documents of the Holy See that in dioceses where the Eucharistic bread is put in the hands of the faithful, the right to receive the Eucharistic bread on the tongue still remains intact to the faithful. Therefore, those who restrict communicants to receive Holy Communion only on in the hands are acting against the norms, as are those who refuse to Christ’s faithful [the right] to receive Communion in the hand in dioceses that enjoy this indult.
With attention to the norms concerning the distribution of Holy Communion, ordinary and extraordinary ministers should take care in a particular way that the host is consumed at once by Christ’s faithful, so that no one goes away with the Eucharistic species in his hand.
However, let all remember that the time-honored tradition is to receive the host on the tongue. The celebrant priest, if there is a present danger of sacrilege, should not give the faithful communion in the hand, and he should make them aware of the reason for way of proceeding.
adoremus.org/0203CommunionHand.html
This response by the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments was sent to us by Father Paul McDonald, of Niagara-on-the-Lake, Diocese of Saint Catherines in Ontario, Canada. The response appeared in Notitiae (April 1999), the official publication of the CDW, regarding the reception of Communion. The translation is Father McDonald’s. - Editor
Query: Whether in dioceses where it is allowed to distribute Communion in the hands of the faithful, a priest or extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion may restrict communicants to receive Communion only in their hands, not on the tongue.
Response: Certainly it is clear from the very documents of the Holy See that in dioceses where the Eucharistic bread is put in the hands of the faithful, the right to receive the Eucharistic bread on the tongue still remains intact to the faithful. Therefore, those who restrict communicants to receive Holy Communion only on in the hands are acting against the norms, as are those who refuse to Christ’s faithful [the right] to receive Communion in the hand in dioceses that enjoy this indult.
With attention to the norms concerning the distribution of Holy Communion, ordinary and extraordinary ministers should take care in a particular way that the host is consumed at once by Christ’s faithful, so that no one goes away with the Eucharistic species in his hand.
However, let all remember that the time-honored tradition is to receive the host on the tongue. The celebrant priest, if there is a present danger of sacrilege, should not give the faithful communion in the hand, and he should make them aware of the reason for way of proceeding.
adoremus.org/0203CommunionHand.html
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Ockham
Guest
Cardinal bans Communion in hand
Peru
26 April 2008
A Peruvian cardinal has banned the practice of receiving Communion in the hand in his diocese to guard against devaluing the Eucharist, an Italian website has reported.
Opus Dei Cardinal Juan Luis Cipriani Thorne told Petrus: “I maintain that the best way to administer Communion is on the tongue, so much so that in my diocese I have forbidden the host in the hand.”
The cardinal, who is Archbishop of Lima and a member of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, said that “the relaxed attitude of many priests” was to blame for a decline in reverence for the Eucharist among the faithful. “In Masses with great attendance, in the past we even found hosts thrown on to the pavement of the church,” he added.
thetablet.co.uk/
Peru
26 April 2008
A Peruvian cardinal has banned the practice of receiving Communion in the hand in his diocese to guard against devaluing the Eucharist, an Italian website has reported.
Opus Dei Cardinal Juan Luis Cipriani Thorne told Petrus: “I maintain that the best way to administer Communion is on the tongue, so much so that in my diocese I have forbidden the host in the hand.”
The cardinal, who is Archbishop of Lima and a member of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, said that “the relaxed attitude of many priests” was to blame for a decline in reverence for the Eucharist among the faithful. “In Masses with great attendance, in the past we even found hosts thrown on to the pavement of the church,” he added.
thetablet.co.uk/
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tweetymom
Guest
Yes I DO!!! I have a lot of self respect and Sir thank you for the pot calling the kettle black.You are more than childish, rude dsrespectable I do walk the walk and talk the the talk. If Jesus said for us to be rude then you fit the bill. I will write the guidlines soon as I have time. I know them do them to the best of my ability. So thank you for showing your Christian love to those that do not agree with you. If you get anything from COTT it isn’t shown.
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Ockham
Guest
Host desecration has been associated with groups identified as inimical to Christianity. It is a common belief that desecration of the host is part of Satanic practice, especially the Black Mass. The modern Church of Satan regards Christian doctrine as false, and does not desecrate the host in most rituals. LaVeyan Satanists do not typically perform Black Mass as a regular ritual, though “Le Messe Noir” from Anton LaVey’s work The Satanic Rituals does include some elements.
Since the publication of a document called Memoriale Domine in 1969,[5] the Apolistic See of the Catholic Church has allowed certain countries to allow communicants to receive the Host in the hand, rather than directly onto the tongue, reviving an “ancient custom”.[5] Communion in the hand is now widespread in many parts of the world. The practice means that access to consecrated Hosts is easier than in the past, since the person receiving it in the hand may pretend to place it in their mouth for consumption. However, recent statements and practices of Pope Benedict XVI[citation needed] have caused a recent shift in Catholic practice of receiving on the tongue while kneeling, which is also an ancient practice.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Host_desecration
Since the publication of a document called Memoriale Domine in 1969,[5] the Apolistic See of the Catholic Church has allowed certain countries to allow communicants to receive the Host in the hand, rather than directly onto the tongue, reviving an “ancient custom”.[5] Communion in the hand is now widespread in many parts of the world. The practice means that access to consecrated Hosts is easier than in the past, since the person receiving it in the hand may pretend to place it in their mouth for consumption. However, recent statements and practices of Pope Benedict XVI[citation needed] have caused a recent shift in Catholic practice of receiving on the tongue while kneeling, which is also an ancient practice.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Host_desecration
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diggerdomer
Guest
I and others have shared plenty of references and “arguments”, you just choose to ignore or dismiss them.
If I have ever said anything on this thread to insult you I apologize. I am not aware that I did, I surely didn’t intend to, but if I did, I apologize.
I have never rebelled on this thread.
Saying “it’s in the GIRM” seems to be a regular phrase with you. But, regardless, the fact that CITH is in the GIRM is one of the central positions that others have offered for your consideration that you continue to dismiss or ignore. This gets back to the recent question I asked you that you still ignore. The Church approves CITH, so are you saying the Church is wrong? I don’t expect you’ll answer it, as you’ve ignored it repeatedly when people ask you that, but in case you missed it…there it is.
The issue of personal preference has also been addressed numerous times on this thread. People have shared their preference whether it’s CITH or COTT or both. I am not arguing against anyone who prefers one over the other. That’s fine with me…because it’s fine with the Church (and yes, it is in the GIRM for the U.S. as has been repeatedly pointed out to you, which means it’s fine with the Church as well).
Sorry, I don’t know what your reference to “bark” and “porch” mean.
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Ockham
Guest
ST. SIXTUS I (115-125). Prohibited the faithful from even touching the Sacred Vessels: “Statutum est ut sacra vasa non ab aliis quam a sacratis Dominoque dicatis contrectentur hominibus…” [It has been decreed that the Sacred Vessels are not to be handled by others than by those consecrated and dedicated to the Lord.]
POPE ST. EUTYCHIAN (275-283). Forbade the faithful from taking the Sacred Host in their hand.
ST. BASIL THE GREAT, DOCTOR OF THE CHURCH (330-379). “The right to receive Holy Communion in the hand is permitted only in time of persecution.” St. Basil considered Communion in the hand so irregular that he did not hesitate to consider it a grave fault.
COUNCIL OF SARAGOSSA (380). It was decided to punish with EXCOMMUNICATION anyone who dared to continue the practice of Holy Communion in the hand. The Synod of Toledo confirmed this decree.
POPE ST. LEO I THE GREAT (440-461). Energetically defended and required faithful obedience to the practice of administering Holy Communion on the tongue of the faithful.
SYNOD OF ROUEN (650). Condemned Communion in the hand to halt widespread abuses that occurred from this practice, and as a safeguard against sacrilege.
SIXTH ECUMENICAL COUNCIL, AT CONSTANTINOPLE (680-681). Forbade the faithful to take the Sacred Host in their hand, threatening the transgressors with excommunication.
ST. THOMAS AQUINAS (1225-1274). “Out of reverence towards this sacrament [the Holy Eucharist], nothing touches it, but what is consecrated; hence the corporal and the chalice are consecrated, and likewise the priest’s hands, for touching this sacrament.” (Summa Theologica, Pars III, Q. 82, Art. 3, Rep. Obj. 8)
COUNCIL OF TRENT (1545-1565). “The fact that only the priest gives Holy Communion with his consecrated hands is an Apostolic Tradition.”
POPE PAUL VI (1963-1978). “This method [on the tongue] must be retained.” (Apostolic Epistle “Memoriale Domini”)
POPE JOHN PAUL II (197
. "To touch the sacred species and to distribute them with their own hands is a privilege of the ordained. (Dominicae Cenae, sec. 11)
“It is not permitted that the faithful should themselves pick up the consecrated bread and the sacred chalice, still less that they should hand them from one to another.” (Inaestimabile Donum, April 17, 1980, sec. 9)
POPE ST. EUTYCHIAN (275-283). Forbade the faithful from taking the Sacred Host in their hand.
ST. BASIL THE GREAT, DOCTOR OF THE CHURCH (330-379). “The right to receive Holy Communion in the hand is permitted only in time of persecution.” St. Basil considered Communion in the hand so irregular that he did not hesitate to consider it a grave fault.
COUNCIL OF SARAGOSSA (380). It was decided to punish with EXCOMMUNICATION anyone who dared to continue the practice of Holy Communion in the hand. The Synod of Toledo confirmed this decree.
POPE ST. LEO I THE GREAT (440-461). Energetically defended and required faithful obedience to the practice of administering Holy Communion on the tongue of the faithful.
SYNOD OF ROUEN (650). Condemned Communion in the hand to halt widespread abuses that occurred from this practice, and as a safeguard against sacrilege.
SIXTH ECUMENICAL COUNCIL, AT CONSTANTINOPLE (680-681). Forbade the faithful to take the Sacred Host in their hand, threatening the transgressors with excommunication.
ST. THOMAS AQUINAS (1225-1274). “Out of reverence towards this sacrament [the Holy Eucharist], nothing touches it, but what is consecrated; hence the corporal and the chalice are consecrated, and likewise the priest’s hands, for touching this sacrament.” (Summa Theologica, Pars III, Q. 82, Art. 3, Rep. Obj. 8)
COUNCIL OF TRENT (1545-1565). “The fact that only the priest gives Holy Communion with his consecrated hands is an Apostolic Tradition.”
POPE PAUL VI (1963-1978). “This method [on the tongue] must be retained.” (Apostolic Epistle “Memoriale Domini”)
POPE JOHN PAUL II (197
. "To touch the sacred species and to distribute them with their own hands is a privilege of the ordained. (Dominicae Cenae, sec. 11)“It is not permitted that the faithful should themselves pick up the consecrated bread and the sacred chalice, still less that they should hand them from one to another.” (Inaestimabile Donum, April 17, 1980, sec. 9)
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diggerdomer
Guest
None of this is contrary to existing Church Law and practice, which allows CITH.POPE PAUL VI (1963-1978). “This method [on the tongue] must be retained.” (Apostolic Epistle “Memoriale Domini”)
POPE JOHN PAUL II (197
“It is not permitted that the faithful should themselves pick up the consecrated bread and the sacred chalice, still less that they should hand them from one to another.” (Inaestimabile Donum, April 17, 1980, sec. 9)
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