Reconciling Humani Generis with the human genetic data showing that there never were just two first parents

[o_mlly]

No. I’ve replied to your inquiry as best I can, and that’ll have to do.

Thank you for your best effort. Sometimes there just are no “black swans”.

As there are no examples of intelligent effects (creatures containing the property of digital-organized-information) that emanate from non-intelligent causes, the ID science theory that all living creatures have intelligent causes stands.

 

[buffalo]

As I just quoted to @buffalo, Humani Generis does not comport with what you assert.

Humani Generis must be read in context of constant Church Teaching and understanding.

I confess … that all men from Adam onward who have been born and have died up to the end of the world will then rise again and stand “before the judgment-seat of Christ,” together with Adam himself and his wife, who were not born of other parents, but were created: one from the earth and the other from the side of the man Pope Pelagius I - 557AD

[We confess] … that after [Jesus’] spirit was already rendered up, his side suffered perforation by a lance, so that through the ensuing flow of water and blood, the one and only, immaculate, virgin holy Mother Church, the Spouse of Christ, might be formed, just as from the side of the first man, cast into sleep, Eve was formed for him unto marriage. This happened so that the reality manifested in our last Adam, that is, Christ, might correspond to a certain prefiguring of that reality constituted by the first and ancient Adam, who, according to the Apostle, “is a type of the one who was to come” Ecumenical Council of Vienne in 1312

What is the true origin of marriage? That, Venerable Brethren, is a matter of common knowledge. For although the revilers of the Christian faith shrink from acknowledging the Church’s permanent doctrine on this matter, and persist in their long-standing efforts to erase the history of all nations and all ages, they have nonetheless been unable to extinguish, or even to weaken, the strength and light of the truth. We call to mind facts well-known to all and doubtful to no-one: after He formed man from the slime of the earth on the sixth day of creation, and breathed into his face the breath of life, God willed to give him a female companion, whom He drew forth wondrously from the man’s side as he slept. In bringing this about, God, in his supreme Providence, willed that this spousal couple should be the natural origin of all men: in other words, that from this pair the human race should be propagated and preserved in every age by a succession of procreative acts which would never be interrupted. And so that this union of man and woman might correspond more aptly to the most wise counsels of God, it has manifested from that time onward, deeply impressed or engraved, as it were, within itself, two preeminent and most noble properties: unity and perpetuity Pope Leo XIII

 

[gama232]

Arcanum - Pope Leo XIII, 1880.

“Though revilers of the Christian faith refuse to acknowledge the never-interrupted doctrine of the Church on this subject, and have long striven to destroy the testimony of all nations and of all times, they have nevertheless failed not only to quench the powerful light of truth, but even to lessen it. We record what is to all known, and cannot be doubted by any, that God, on the sixth day of creation, having made man from the slime of the earth, and having breathed into his face the breath of life, gave him a companion, whom He miraculously took from the side of Adam when he was locked in sleep.”

 

[buffalo]

Whether, in particular, the literal historical sense ( sensus litteralis historicus ) may be called in question ( vocari in dubium possit ), where it is a question of facts narrated in these chapters ( ubi agitur de factis in eisdem capitibus enarratis ) which involve the foundations of the Christian religion ( quae christianae religionis fundamenta attingunt ), as are, among others, the creation of all things by God at the beginning of time; the special [or, particular] creation of man; the formation of the first woman from the first man ( formatio primae mulieris ex primo homine ); the unity of the human race; the original happiness of our first parents in a state of justice, integrity and immortality; the precept given by God to man in order to test his obedience; the transgression of the divine precept under the persuasion of the devil in the guise of a serpent; the fall of our first parents from the aforesaid primaeval state of innocence; and the promise of a future Saviour?

Response: In the negative ( Negative ) Pontifical Biblical Commission’s Responsum of June 30, 1909

 

[rossum]

As there are no examples of intelligent effects (creatures containing the property of digital-organized-information) that emanate from non-intelligent causes, the ID science theory that all living creatures have intelligent causes stands.

Humans are just such an example. A human sperm is not intelligent – it has no brain. A human egg is not intelligent – it also lacks a brain. Yet when there two unintelligent things combine and grow an intelligent human being is born.

That intelligent human being can produce digital-organised-information in a computer.

DNA is not “digital-organised-information”, it is “chemical-organised-information” since DNA is a chemical, not digital bits in a computer.

 

[buffalo]

@allyson Please produce the Magisterial document that overturns the above.

In addition, please explain why the Holy Spirit let us be deceived for so very long? Was the Holy Spirit sleeping?

 

[buffalo]

But if some dispute should arise [between faith and science], the same Doctor sums up the rule to be followed by the theologian: If they have been able to demonstrate some truth of natural science with solid proofs, let us show that it is not contrary to our Scriptures; but if they maintain anything in any of their treatises which is contrary to Scripture (that is, to the Catholic faith), let us believe without hesitation that it is completely false, and if possible find a way of refuting it.
Vatican II - citing Leo XIII in Providentissimus

 

[rossum]

In addition, please explain why the Holy Spirit let us be deceived for so very long? Was the Holy Spirit sleeping?

Why not? God is omnipotent, so God can certainly do something as simple as falling asleep. He was perhaps also asleep when people were interpreting “You shall not allow a witch to live” literally and killing witches.

 

[buffalo]

“You shall not allow a witch to live” literally and killing witches.

I believe we went through this before and what witches were in the OT. I suggest a good Catholic Commentary to help you with this not the SAB.

 

[Allyson]

@allyson Please produce the Magisterial document that overturns the above.

In addition, please explain why the Holy Spirit let us be deceived for so very long? Was the Holy Spirit sleeping?

Humani Generis does with respect to allowing that human bodies could have evolved rather than the mythical events as described in Genesis. The Popes and Council Fathers in all the quotes did not know then what was clear by 1950; and they did not know in 1950 what we know now.

Catholics are not Biblical literalists.

 

[Allyson]

I believe we went through this before and what witches were in the OT. I suggest a good Catholic Commentary to help you with this not the SAB.

What possible difference does the definition of a witch in the OT make? Christians used that verse for centuries as a basis for witch hunts. SMH

 

[buffalo]

Did Adam and Eve Really Exist?​

Did Adam and Eve Really Exist?

Pure myth! That is today’s typical view of a literal Adam and Eve. Yet, contrary to current skepticism, a real Adam and Eve remain credible—both in terms of Catholic doctrine and sound natural science.

www.crisismagazine.com

 

[Allyson]

In addition, please explain why the Holy Spirit let us be deceived for so very long? Was the Holy Spirit sleeping?

The Holy Spirit guides. He does not dictate. Sheesh…

 

[buffalo]

What possible difference does the definition of a witch in the OT make? Christians used that verse for centuries as a basis for witch hunts.

This is a Catholic site. I cannot and will not attempt to defend sola scriptura interpretations of the Bible. We depend on Magisterium and the faithful transmission of Oral and Written Tradition.

 

[buffalo]

The Holy Spirit guides. He does not dictate. Sheesh…

So he guided us into error? I don’t think so.

 

[buffalo]

umani Generis does with respect to allowing that human bodies could have evolved rather than the mythical events as described in Genesis. The Popes and Council Fathers in all the quotes did not know then what was clear by 1950; and they did not know in 1950 what we know now.

Catholics are not Biblical literalists.

No - it allows the research with the Church having the final voice. And no one really should argue with that. Research away…

Ahh so here we finally have it. I am still requesting the magisterial document showing all the Popes and teaching were in error and why and when we are changing this.

Catholics interpret Scripture literally as to what the author intended to convey. The authors intended, and the hearers understood, the immediate creation of Adam and Eve.

 

[o_mlly]

Humans are just such an example. A human sperm is not intelligent – it has no brain. A human egg is not intelligent – it also lacks a brain.

The definition of intelligent as used in the ID theory proposed does not require a brain.

The human sperm and the egg possess DNA, digital-organized-information, and meet the definition of intelligent in this context.

That intelligent human being can produce digital-organised-information in a computer.

OK. And that fact harmonizes with the theory: only intelligent beings cause intelligent effects.

DNA is not “digital-organised-information”, it is “chemical-organised-information” since DNA is a chemical, not digital bits in a computer.

Perhaps I’m missing your point but all observable materials consists of chemicals. ?

 

[Allyson]

Catholics interpret Scripture literally as to what the author intended to convey. The authors intended, and the hearers understood, the immediate creation of Adam and Eve.

Have you personally spoken to the author? No. That is not physically possible. Like all literature, the Scriptures are subject to interpretation by the reader.

Ahh so here we finally have it. I am still requesting the magisterial document showing all the Popes and teaching were in error and why and when we are changing this.

So, Humani Genersis is not magisterial now? My expectation is that the Church will not make any final determination on the issue. Are the formal Popes in error? I assume you mean with respect to doctrine, so no as to Original Sin. Beyond that, we cannot hold them to a standard of knowledge that we have now. Like I said, the Holy Spirit does not dictate. How could He possibly guide them to an opinion for which they had no basis in facts to establish?

 

[buffalo]

Have you personally spoken to the author? No. That is not physically possible. Like all literature, the Scriptures are subject to interpretation by the reader.

That is the protestant view and why there are now over 20k of ecclesiastical communities that all interpret passages differently. The Catholic Church is the authority on what Scripture means.

The Holy Spirit is part of the Trinity and is Truth itself. It cannot be or lead us into error.

 

[buffalo]

Beyond that, we cannot hold them to a standard of knowledge that we have now. Like I said, the Holy Spirit does not dictate. How could He possibly guide them to an opinion for which they had no basis in facts to establish?

All Scripture is inspired by God. What do you think of the preternatural gifts Adam and Eve had before the fall. The one about infused knowledge?