Reconciling Humani Generis with the human genetic data showing that there never were just two first parents

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buffalo said:
I believe we went through this before and what witches were in the OT. I suggest a good Catholic Commentary to help you with this not the SAB.
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So, why didn’t God arrange to provide a “good Catholic Commentary” in time to save those accused of witchcraft? Was He asleep?
 
o_mlly said:
OK. And that fact harmonizes with the theory: only intelligent beings cause intelligent effects.
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Your theory is destroyed. Neither egg nor sperm are intelligent, and they can form digital information when combined.

Is an amoeba intelligent? An amoeba can produce DNA when it reproduces. Intelligence is not required to produce the information in DNA. Even bacteria and algae can do that.
Perhaps I’m missing your point but all observable materials consists of chemicals?
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No. Light photons are very definitely observable and are not chemicals.

My point was that DNA is not “digital”, it is chemical. DNA is composed of atoms of chemical elements; it is not a memory array in a computer or a DVD disc.
 
rossum said:
People were being killed and you say “not much need”? Not a good position to take, buffalo.
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God can do what He wishes with His Creation, He is the Author. If He determined that a particular cancer had to be cut our for the sake of the others He is allowed to do so. Is is OK to capture and execute a modern dictator who murdered thousands? Is your position that sorcerers were just benign little cute humans dressed up in black riding broomsticks?
 
buffalo said:
That is the protestant view
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Nope. See Dei Verbum - My emphasis
  1. However, since God speaks in Sacred Scripture through men in human fashion, (6) the interpreter of Sacred Scripture, in order to see clearly what God wanted to communicate to us, should carefully investigate what meaning the sacred writers really intended, and what God wanted to manifest by means of their words.
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To search out the intention of the sacred writers, attention should be given, among other things, to “literary forms.” For truth is set forth and expressed differently in texts which are variously historical, prophetic, poetic, or of other forms of discourse. The interpreter must investigate what meaning the sacred writer intended to express and actually expressed in particular circumstances by using contemporary literary forms in accordance with the situation of his own time and culture. (7) For the correct understanding of what the sacred author wanted to assert, due attention must be paid to the customary and characteristic styles of feeling, speaking and narrating which prevailed at the time of the sacred writer, and to the patterns men normally employed at that period in their everyday dealings with one another. (8)
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But, since Holy Scripture must be read and interpreted in the sacred spirit in which it was written, (9) no less serious attention must be given to the content and unity of the whole of Scripture if the meaning of the sacred texts is to be correctly worked out. The living tradition of the whole Church must be taken into account along with the harmony which exists between elements of the faith. It is the task of exegetes to work according to these rules toward a better understanding and explanation of the meaning of Sacred Scripture, so that through preparatory study the judgment of the Church may mature. For all of what has been said about the way of interpreting Scripture is subject finally to the judgment of the Church, which carries out the divine commission and ministry of guarding and interpreting the word of God. (10)
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DNA is far more sophisticated than a man-made program.

Date:
December 12, 2013
Source:
University of Washington
Summary:
"Scientists have discovered a second code hiding within DNA. The second code contains information that changes how scientists read the instructions contained in DNA and interpret mutations to make sense of health and disease. Genomes use the genetic code to write two separate languages. One describes how proteins are made, and the other instructs the cell on how genes are controlled. One language is written on top of the other. "
 
buffalo said:
All Scripture is inspired by God. What do you think of the preternatural gifts Adam and Eve had before the fall. The one about infused knowledge?
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Clearly it was lost in the fall, so we do not have it. We gain knowledge by study.
 
buffalo said:
God can do what He wishes with His Creation
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This is why I do not follow an Abrahamic religion. God can break all the rules He sets and kill (or order to be killed) as many people as he wants, with no moral consequences.

Actions have consequences.
 
Correct. …

The senses of Scripture

115 According to an ancient tradition, one can distinguish between two senses of Scripture: the literal and the spiritual, the latter being subdivided into the allegorical, moral and anagogical senses. The profound concordance of the four senses guarantees all its richness to the living reading of Scripture in the Church.

[116](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/116.htm’)😉 The literal sense is the meaning conveyed by the words of Scripture and discovered by exegesis, following the rules of sound interpretation: "All other senses of Sacred Scripture are based on the literal."83

[117](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/117.htm’)😉 The spiritual sense . Thanks to the unity of God’s plan, not only the text of Scripture but also the realities and events about which it speaks can be signs.
  1. The allegorical sense . We can acquire a more profound understanding of events by recognizing their significance in Christ; thus the crossing of the Red Sea is a sign or type of Christ’s victory and also of Christian Baptism.84
  2. The moral sense . The events reported in Scripture ought to lead us to act justly. As St. Paul says, they were written “for our instruction”.85
  3. The anagogical sense (Greek: anagoge , “leading”). We can view realities and events in terms of their eternal significance, leading us toward our true homeland: thus the Church on earth is a sign of the heavenly Jerusalem.86
118 A medieval couplet summarizes the significance of the four senses:

The Letter speaks of deeds; Allegory to faith;
The Moral how to act; Anagogy our destiny.87

[119](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/119.htm’)😉 "It is the task of exegetes to work, according to these rules, towards a better understanding and explanation of the meaning of Sacred Scripture in order that their research may help the Church to form a firmer judgment. For, of course, all that has been said about the manner of interpreting Scripture is ultimately subject to the judgment of the Church which exercises the divinely conferred commission and ministry of watching over and interpreting the Word of God."88

But I would not believe in the Gospel, had not the authority of the Catholic Church already moved me.89
 
buffalo said:
Can it store a digital code?
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No. It can store chemical code. That code can be translated into a digital representation. However, you may not want to go down that route since birdsong can also be translated into a digital representation, and I do not think that you want to place birds on the same level as humans.

For that matter, a bee’s dance contains information which can also be represented digitally. Similarly a pebble – the positions and velocities of every atom in the pebble at a given point in time.

Information is present in a great many things in a variety of different forms. Any of those forms can, in principle, be translated into digital information. Given a very fine-grained 3D printer that same digital information could be used to recreate the original pebble.

Your emphasis on digital information is essentially worthless, given the interchangability of different forms of information.
 
rossum said:
This is why I do not follow an Abrahamic religion. God can break all the rules He sets and kill (or order to be killed) as many people as he wants, with no moral consequences.

Actions have consequences.
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I am ROTFL over this one. @rossum The rules He set are for His Creation. He is perfect love, truth, mercy and justice. God made us to know Him, to love Him, and to serve Him in this world, and to be happy with Him forever in the next.
 
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It’s very important. That digital code has no chance of occurring on its own, especially to run cellular functions. Scientists are still trying to figure out molecular switches, which adds more complexity.
 
gama232 said:
DNA is far more sophisticated than a man-made program.
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No it is not. All man-made programming languages allow comments, which are in effect “ignore this” instructions.

Your creationist source is grossly overselling the discovery. Science has known for a long time that genes can be switched off – you do not grow eyes in your toes, despite all the cells in your toes containing the DNA for eyes. The precise details of how these switches work is still being worked on.
 
rossum said:
No it is not. All man-made programming languages allow comments, which are in effect “ignore this” instructions.
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DNA language has meaning forwards and backwards as well as inside. In addition it has layers.
 
buffalo said:
I am ROTFL over this one. @rossum The rules He set are for His Creation. He is perfect love, truth, mercy and justice. God made us to know Him, to love Him, and to serve Him in this world, and to be happy with Him forever in the next.
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This is off topic for this thread. You may want to start a separate thread on this.
 
My “creationist source”? You mean Science Daily? Sorry, but your attempt to ignore the issue will not make it go away. Human DNA is far too complex to have arisen by purely ‘natural’ forces.
 
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