Red Cross and the Vatican 'helped thousands of Nazis escape'

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Catholics have a long history of protecting the weak and persecuted. While the Nazis were persecuting the Jews, many Catholics (including at the Vatican) shielded Jews from their persecutors.

After the war, the tables were turned and former Nazis became the weak. That is all.

Remember Schindler? He was wanted by the commission.
 
Very poor, the blurb on Amazon also mentions Secret Services.

As to to the Red Cross ‘inadvertently helping’… How come Adolf Eichmann has a Red Cross Passport?

God Bless,

Chris.
 
Catholic priest, nuns and lay leaders who oppenly oppose nazism including the President of Catholic Social Action were summarily executed by the dreaded Gestapo - a year after Hitler rose to power in 1933.

Catholic media in Germany were forcibly closed during the Mid thirties. Protestant media was closed later.

More than 20,000 priest and nuns were imprisoned at Dachau Concentration camp. Thousands died in this concentration camp that has become a prototype of other concentration camps.

The effort of Pope Pius XII to help Jews were recognized by the World Jewish Congress and by Israel (then) Foreign Minister Golda Meir by giving him separately a monetary award.

Hopefully, some media would stop giving a false version of World War 2 history.

God bless,

Ramir
 
SonCatcher said:
Catholics have a long history of protecting the weak and persecuted. While the Nazis were persecuting the Jews, many Catholics (including at the Vatican) shielded Jews from their persecutors.

After the war, the tables were turned and former Nazis became the weak. That is all.

Remember Schindler? He was wanted by the commission.
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No, that is not all. If anyone in the Vatican was responsible for aiding criminals such as Nazis who were responsible for the murder of millions of innocents, and helping them to escape justice, then that person, priest or pope or layperson, was wrong and the world should know about it. Ted Bundy, when on the run from the law, may have been in a weakened position as well, but if a priest had helped him escape justice because he was perceived as weak, we would be horrified. The same holds true for Nazi murderers.
 
I guess I would like some IRREFUTABLE proof and would also like to know why it took 65 years to discover this “fact”.
 
This is old news, and is at best an unwarranted generalization to call the clergymen who helped Nazis escape “the Vatican.” One in particular I think is of the most concern is an Austrian bishop who helped Eichmann escape. This particular clergymen is hardly representative of the church, especially considering that it was known throughout the Church tha he had questionable politics and was basically exiled to the Vatican because it was thought he would be less problematic there than in Austria. He was just a rogue.

One corrupt clergyman does not equal the vatican any more than one officer in the Army represents the whole of the US military or one police officer represents his whole department. Saying ‘the Vatican’ rather than just saying who by name aided the Nazis is just sensationalism.
 
Raskolnikov said:
This is old news, and is at best an unwarranted generalization to call the clergymen who helped Nazis escape “the Vatican.” One in particular I think is of the most concern is an Austrian bishop who helped Eichmann escape. This particular clergymen is hardly representative of the church, especially considering that it was known throughout the Church tha he had questionable politics and was basically exiled to the Vatican because it was thought he would be less problematic there than in Austria. He was just a rogue.

One corrupt clergyman does not equal the vatican any more than one officer in the Army represents the whole of the US military or one police officer represents his whole department. Saying ‘the Vatican’ rather than just saying who by name aided the Nazis is just sensationalism.
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Isn’t that what British newspapers are infamous for?
Weren’t there members of the Royal family who were Nazi sympathizers?
 
Vatican, Red Cross aided Nazis’ flight, book charges: Author says Canada was one of many haven countries where war criminals took refuge after conflict
A new book claims thousands of potential Nazi war criminals and collaborators escaped justice in the years after the Second World War with help from the Vatican and Red Cross, using false documents and altered identities to emigrate undetected to a host of haven countries -including Canada.

Gerald Steinacher, author of Nazis on the Run: How Hitler’s Henchmen Escaped Justice, probes newly opened files from the International Committee of the Red Cross and other war-era archives to reconstruct the strategies of evasion and routes to freedom used by potential war-crimes suspects, including SS officers, National Socialist Party officials and other possible perpetrators of Holocaust-era atrocities. As many as 8,000 ex-Nazis, whose wartime activities should have been probed by Allied authorities, reached Canada or Britain by questionable means, Steinacher found, though even more made their way through Italy to Spain or South America to live out their lives.
…

Read more: vancouversun.com/news/Vatican+Cross+aided+Nazis+flight+book+charges/4861027/story.html#ixzz1Nwzi3rLn
 
Tsuwano said:
No, that is not all. If anyone in the Vatican was responsible for aiding criminals such as Nazis who were responsible for the murder of millions of innocents, and helping them to escape justice, then that person, priest or pope or layperson, was wrong and the world should know about it. Ted Bundy, when on the run from the law, may have been in a weakened position as well, but if a priest had helped him escape justice because he was perceived as weak, we would be horrified. The same holds true for Nazi murderers.
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I specifically named a Nazi party member who has since been praised for his efforts to help Jews while his compatriots were persecuting them (in case you didn’t notice). In the aftermath of Germany’s defeat, there wasn’t much distinction made between villains and “black hat” heroes. They all looked the same to the soldiers rounding them up. Schindler could have easily found himself executed before news of what he really did became public.

BTW - if said hypothetical priest had only contacted Ted Bundy in the context of the confessional, he would be bound by its seal.
 
I saw this a couple days ago somewhere else. It’s sad if true. I’ve heard conflicting stories on what the Church did/didn’t do to resist the Nazis. Of course the Church is not alone on this. Sad.
 
It’s probably some anti-catholic rant. But even if it isn’t, I guess all those that supposedly escaped justice probably went to confession.
 
Er…I think quite a few headed to the USA like YOUR WHOLE SPACE PROGRAM.😃
 
Paperclip was the code name of the project to bring German scientists to the United States after the war. All of the Allies accepted German, and some Austrian, scientists into their countries.

I have not read this book but if illegally purchased and forged documents were used then what did Vatican officials know? Especially if these individuals had different names on their documents as opposed to their real names.

Peace,
Ed
 
When bashing the Church, any stick will do.

Especially when there are books to be sold.
 
".…in the years after the Second World War with help from the Vatican and Red Cross, using false documents and altered identities to emigrate undetected to a host of haven countries…"

How exactly was the Vatican to inspect and verify the many thousands who presented themselves for immigration after the war with the whole of Europe in ruins, especially when they were using “false documents and altered identities?”

Accusations against the Church sure must be good for business.
 
1holycatholic said:
When bashing the Church, any stick will do.

Especially when there are books to be sold.
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I’m always open to new information. But, at the same time, I’m weary of the spate of books that have recently come out condemning the Church and the Pope for Nazi collaboration. Many of them are poorly documented; in fact, the most authoritative ones tell a totally opposite tale regarding the role of the Vatican. And now the Red Cross is also implicated? Give me a break!
 
SonCatcher said:
I specifically named a Nazi party member who has since been praised for his efforts to help Jews while his compatriots were persecuting them (in case you didn’t notice). In the aftermath of Germany’s defeat, there wasn’t much distinction made between villains and “black hat” heroes. They all looked the same to the soldiers rounding them up. Schindler could have easily found himself executed before news of what he really did became public.

BTW - if said hypothetical priest had only contacted Ted Bundy in the context of the confessional, he would be bound by its seal.
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Offering someone forgiveness through the Sacrament of Reconciliation is not the same as aiding them in their escape from justice. A priest may be obligated to keep the confession of a murderer a secret from legitimate authority, but I don’t think he is obligated to keep the murderer’s location or the fact that he came to the priest a secret. I understand that there was chaos following the end of the Second World War and that some people may have been implicated in crimes for which they were not responsible, but that is not the point I am making. My point is that if a church person willfully and knowingly aided a Nazi criminal escape justice, even because he perceived that person as weak and helpless, then that church person is still wrong and his or her actions should be brought to light. I am not pointing a finger of accusation at anyone in the Church or attempting to say that the Church is responsible for the escape of Nazi criminals. I am saying that if such a thing did happen, then it is legitimate for the authorities to bring those actions to light and we should not use the Church’s desire to offer charity to the weak as an excuse for helping criminals avoid justice.
 
The post-war trials and executions aren’t exactly a shining part of history. The Soviets, Chinese, French, Americans, and Commonwealth leaders killed a whole lot of people. Some instances were high-profile kangaroo courts against Nazi leaders. Other instances involved people never making it to trial, being summarily shot or tossed into Displaced Persons camps to be killed by mobs. There was no real accountability or valid jurisprudence in place to ensure the rights of the accused.

Plenty of people of good conscience from the winning side of the war objected to the institution of “victor’s justice” that violated all previous international standards of jurisprudence, men like U.S. Senator Robert Taft. The fact that they tried to get Oscar Schindler and could have easily have hanged him for slave-labor and munitions production should show us that these reservations were prudent.

There’s no moral obligation to hand over suspects to a quasi-legal-system that appeared focused on nothing but violent revenge, no matter how much one loathes the accused.
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