Redeeming Qualities in Same-Sex Relationships

[at9009]

I have read through a lot of this thread and many similar posts. Without trying to derail the thread, I really need to get this off my chest. Gay people seem to seek so much attention (in the "you don’t understand me kind of way), I feel they crowd out other group with legitimate needs to be understood. I am specifically speaking here about people on the autism spectrum.

I have watched far too much bullying in the fastest growing developmental disability. And yes, the bullying leads to severe depression and suicide. The isolation is also intense…and I would argue even more intense than being gay to the extreme social deficit that these kids have. Often, the cannot even make friends with kids with the same disability because of their lack of social skills.

I think people in general have this tendency to got so boggled down in their own struggles that they forget (and I’m guilty of this sometimes too) that there are others in the world who struggling just as much and sometimes even more. So, it’s helpful to be reminded of others struggles. Although they are different we can often find commonality and figure out ways to better support each other (even if we don’t fully understand or experience the same trials and struggles). Thanks for giving us your perspective.

There definitely is a need to find a way to better help people on the autism spectrum. Part of the problem (I think) is the spectrum is so wide and it manifests differently for people on it that people aren’t really sure of the best ways to help/support them. There’s a lot we need to figure out about how to address autism and offer better support and fellowship, but that’s probably better as a topic for a different thread. I’ll definitely be praying for you and your child.

 

[1990Domer]

I think people in general have this tendency to got so boggled down in their own struggles that they forget (and I’m guilty of this sometimes too) that there are others in the world who struggling just as much and sometimes even more. So, it’s helpful to be reminded of others struggles. Although they are different we can often find commonality and figure out ways to better support each other (even if we don’t fully understand or experience the same trials and struggles). Thanks for giving us your perspective.

There definitely is a need to find a way to better help people on the autism spectrum. Part of the problem (I think) is the spectrum is so wide and it manifests differently for people on it that people aren’t really sure of the best ways to help/support them. There’s a lot we need to figure out about how to address autism and offer better support and fellowship, but that’s probably better as a topic for a different thread. I’ll definitely be praying for you and your child.

Thank you for responding! I was merely trying to say that I wish people were more kind and accepting of autism families. I’m not even getting into treatments. That is way too complicated. Simple acts of kindness go a long way no matter where on the spectrum a child is. And those acts could be towards the parents too. But I will end here. I just wanted to inject a little reality.

 

[catholic1seeks]

Same sex relationships are essentially infertile (not what is called ‘accidentally’ infertile).

No…their very essence is infertile

I too have read up on the precise and subtle distinctions made up in moral theology.

 

[catholic1seeks]

I have read through a lot of this thread and many similar posts. Without trying to derail the thread, I really need to get this off my chest. Gay people seem to seek so much attention (in the "you don’t understand me kind of way), I feel they crowd out other group with legitimate needs to be understood. I am specifically speaking here about people on the autism spectrum.

I have watched far too much bullying in the fastest growing developmental disability. And yes, the bullying leads to severe depression and suicide. The isolation is also intense…and I would argue even more intense than being gay to the extreme social deficit that these kids have. Often, the cannot even make friends with kids with the same disability because of their lack of social skills. At least the gay community can support one another at the very least.

Trust me, I am fighting a similar battle with the RCC because of their reluctance to accept children on the autism spectrum. In the rare cases they do, the teachers do not understand these kids and make it worse. And yes, I advocate, other parents I know advocate, Autism Speaks advocate…but so much more education needs to be done.

My apologies for being uncharitable, but gay people don’t realize how good they have it compared to kids on the autism spectrum. I am trying to interject some different prespective into this thread. Finally, I will not respond to people who try to set up tricky counter arguments. I have close family members who are gay, and I know many, many others. I also have a son on the autism spectrum whose life has truly been made hell due to reasons that he cannot control, he cannot hide, etc. There are no “safe zones” for autistic kids. Trust me, my kid and another on the spectrum needed that safe zone desperately.

Thank you for reading and considering a far different perspective.

Well you are being uncharitable, unfortunately.

This is not about comparing crosses. Everyone has a cross.

But the gay person is a sticky position with regards to church teaching. That fact is what sparks a thread like this.

 

[Rau]

Well you are being uncharitable, unfortunately.

This is not about comparing crosses. Everyone has a cross.

But the gay person is a sticky position with regards to church teaching. That fact is what sparks a thread like this.

The gay person is called to use his sexual capacity in the same manner and circumstances as applies to us all. That his desires lead elsewhere is a challenge, but those desires do not create new and proper circumstances.

 

[1990Domer]

Well you are being uncharitable, unfortunately.

This is not about comparing crosses. Everyone has a cross.

But the gay person is a sticky position with regards to church teaching. That fact is what sparks a thread like this.

Actually, I feel you are uncharitable, as you will not allow other unique groups to set foot on your turf. The gay message always seems to be about ME…what is good for me should be made law, what is not good for me should be outlawed. And often this is based on subjective “feelings” and not objective moral truth.

The gay person has no such sticky position with the Church. I’m not sure how the Church could make things more clear. I think it is receiver of the message who needs to listen more closely to the wisdom of the RCC.

 

[Operalan]

Actually, I feel you are uncharitable, as you will not allow other unique groups to set foot on your turf. The gay message always seems to be about ME…what is good for me should be made law, what is not good for me should be outlawed. And often this is based on subjective “feelings” and not objective moral truth.

The gay person has no such sticky position with the Church. I’m not sure how the Church could make things more clear. I think it is receiver of the message who needs to listen more closely to the wisdom of the RCC.

I whole heartedly agree with you!

 

[1990Domer]

I whole heartedly agree with you!

Thank you for the support, my friend in Christ. God bless.

 

[1990Domer]

The gay person is called to use his sexual capacity in the same manner and circumstances as applies to us all. That his desires lead elsewhere is a challenge, but those desires do not create new and proper circumstances.

Thank you Rau for your eloquently worded response.

 

[at9009]

The gay person has no such sticky position with the Church. I’m not sure how the Church could make things more clear. I think it is receiver of the message who needs to listen more closely to the wisdom of the RCC.

Just to offer some perspective. It’s not the Church teaching that is the problem. It’s the not so subtle suggestion to make sure the attractions remain a secret because if others did find out, expect many to view you with hostility like some Trojan horse waiting to strike. It’s the constant suggestions telling how one should and shouldn’t describe the attractions. It’s dealing with people talking about the issue like some intellectual debate forgetting actual people (including some friends and family) struggle with this everyday. It’s the feeling that when people express frustration about dealing with this issue, they just want the ssa person to go away sit in the back of he church so everyone else can go back to pretending no one deals with this cross. It’s Church parishes minstries heavy focus on family, children, and marriage while throwing scraps to those called to the single celibate life. its feeling like a hot potato because the gay community dislikes the ssa person (for choosing and striving to follow God) and the Christian community at large doesn’t like them because of the attractions leading to the feeling of not having a home but being merely tolerated.

I’m not trying to suggest anyone here is like this or anything, but the perception and feelings exist. I also know there are many other problems and many others with difficult crosses who also need support, but it’s frustrating to feel like the Christian community at large views you almost as an enemy to be defeated. Sorry for the soap box. Back to the regular discussion.

 

[1990Domer]

Just to offer some perspective. It’s not the Church teaching that is the problem. It’s the not so subtle suggestion to make sure the attractions remain a secret because if others did find out, expect many to view you with hostility like some Trojan horse waiting to strike. It’s the constant suggestions telling how one should and shouldn’t describe the attractions. It’s dealing with people talking about the issue like some intellectual debate forgetting actual people (including some friends and family) struggle with this everyday. It’s the feeling that when people express frustration about dealing with this issue, they just want the ssa person to go away sit in the back of he church so everyone else can go back to pretending no one deals with this cross. It’s Church parishes minstries heavy focus on family, children, and marriage while throwing scraps to those called to the single celibate life. its feeling like a hot potato because the gay community dislikes the ssa person (for choosing and striving to follow God) and the Christian community at large doesn’t like them because of the attractions leading to the feeling of not having a home but being merely tolerated.

I’m not trying to suggest anyone here is like this or anything, but the perception and feelings exist. I also know there are many other problems and many others with difficult crosses who also need support, but it’s frustrating to feel like the Christian community at large views you almost as an enemy to be defeated. Sorry for the soap box. Back to the regular discussion.

I feel for what you describe. Some churches have not been too kind to my son (autistic) either. Yes, it is very difficult when fellow parishioners shoot angry looks or outright ask you to leave. It’s sad when a Catholic school bullies your kid to the point of self-injury and self-hate.

Trust me, I know those feelings exist for the SSA community. I want them to know they are not alone and–in many ways–I wish the autism community could have similar dialogues with the church. Remember, your movement has one powerful thing going for you–media support, advocacy and a strong voice that does dialogue with you. Most autistic families escape into isolation. I am trying to paint a brighter side to your cause. Vent over.

 

[at9009]

Trust me, I know those feelings exist for the SSA community. I want them to know they are not alone and–in many ways–I wish the autism community could have similar dialogues with the church. Remember, your movement has one powerful thing going for you–media support, advocacy and a strong voice that does dialogue with you. Most autistic families escape into isolation. I am trying to paint a brighter side to your cause. Vent over.

One upside is at least we’re recognizing the problems in the church (NOT doctrine but pastoral/ministry support). I hope that we can figure out ways to fix the problems. (Also you’re not venting, it’s important to always remember others who struggle too, especially those with harder trials. Otherwise we end up with martyr complexes). So always feel free to provide your perspective and insight.

One minor side note, I honestly highly doubt support from the culture at large for pursing and following Catholic doctrine. Most of their ‘dialogue’ ends up throwing gasoline on the fire and making my life harder.

 

[1990Domer]

One upside is at least we’re recognizing the problems in the church (NOT doctrine but pastoral/ministry support). I hope that we can figure out ways to fix he problems. (Also you’re not venting, it’s important to always remember others who struggle too, especially those with harder trials. Otherwise we end up with martyr complexes). So always feel free to provide your perspective and insight.

One minor side note, I honestly highly doubt support from the culture at large for pursing and following Catholic doctrine. Most of their ‘dialogue’ ends up throwing gasoline on the fire and making my life harder.

My apologies, but I wasn’t sure what you meant by your last paragraph.

And thank you for your kind words. My dear son, despite his disability, is discerning the priesthood. Even bullying at Catholic school did not weaken that!

 

[catholic1seeks]

Actually, I feel you are uncharitable, as you will not allow other unique groups to set foot on your turf. The gay message always seems to be about ME…what is good for me should be made law, what is not good for me should be outlawed. And often this is based on subjective “feelings” and not objective moral truth.

The gay person has no such sticky position with the Church. I’m not sure how the Church could make things more clear. I think it is receiver of the message who needs to listen more closely to the wisdom of the RCC.

What do you mean I do not allow other unique groups set foot on my turf?

This thread is about same-sex relationships. That does not mean I cannot also sympathize with other persons who live in difficult situations.

Hmmm. The “gay message always seems to be about ME.” What on earth does that mean? A gay individual wanting the right to visit his beloved in the hospital… or being able to officially commit himself to his beloved with state protection… or being able to be served without taunting and rejection. Yes, how selfish indeed.

The gay person does not have a sticky position in the Church? Really? So then gay persons have it quite easy in the Church. Is that what you think?

 

[at9009]

My apologies, but I wasn’t sure what you meant by your last paragraph.

And thank you for your kind words. My dear son, despite his disability, is discerning the priesthood. Even bullying at Catholic school did not weaken that!

That’s amazing that your son is discerning priesthood!!!

Sure, what I meant was as a celibate gay/SSA person, I generally find the gay activist/movement community more as an annoyance than anything rather than helpful or supportive. They generall don’t like us (because we choose to be celibate) and by going after Christianity, they help encourage the flames and animosity I might sometimes feel in Christian communities (ie the US vs THEM mentality) where some view people like me as a submersive threat who are quietly seeking to undermine the Church. (Once again I’m not trying to imply that anyone here is like this, but I do have family members with this mentality which is extremely frustrating).

 

[Smack]

Remember, your movement has one powerful thing going for you–media support, advocacy and a strong voice that does dialogue with you. .

You must be very deeply wounded to make a statement like this. I actually gasped when I read it and then looked up to see if you where Catholic, and was surprised that you were. How it grieves God when His children fight and are mean to each other! It sounds like you have really been hurt by the treatment of your son, and autism education and advocacy are good- but unleashing the media on your church is not loving or kind; it is your way of punishing them and it helps you to sip a nice hot mug of bitterness in the cold winter of your soul. This is work of the Enemy, not the Good One.

And would you please forgive us, the Church, for being so heartless? It’s so much easier to pretend a problem isn’t there, when it is. I hope you can find healing for your heart and someday come to a place where you can forgive this sin committed against you.

 

[1990Domer]

You must be very deeply wounded to make a statement like this. I actually gasped when I read it and then looked up to see if you where Catholic, and was surprised that you were. How it grieves God when His children fight and are mean to each other! It sounds like you have really been hurt by the treatment of your son, and autism education and advocacy are good- but unleashing the media on your church is not loving or kind; it is your way of punishing them and it helps you to sip a nice hot mug of bitterness in the cold winter of your soul. This is work of the Enemy, not the Good One.

And would you please forgive us, the Church, for being so heartless? It’s so much easier to pretend a problem isn’t there, when it is. I hope you can find healing for your heart and someday come to a place where you can forgive this sin committed against you.

You misread my intent. I have no intention nor do anyone I know with a special needs child intend to unleash anything on the Church…or using the press, media, etc. to do so. My gosh, the whole word needs education on autism, not just the RCC.

I was trying to contrast how strong the gay movement’s education machine is compared to disabilities like autism. To be perfectly honest, I am glad my son has autism, because his innocence will get him to Heaven long before me.

 

[Smack]

You misread my intent. I have no intention nor do anyone I know with a special needs child intend to unleash anything on the Church…or using the press, media, etc. to do so. .

When you said that they had the media “on their side”, it communicated to me that the media could help them, and that you wish you had that kind of “help.” I’m glad that this message wasn’t your intent.

 

[1990Domer]

That’s amazing that your son is discerning priesthood!!!

Sure, what I meant was as a celibate gay/SSA person, I generally find the gay activist/movement community more as an annoyance than anything rather than helpful or supportive. They generall don’t like us (because we choose to be celibate) and by going after Christianity, they help encourage the flames and animosity I might sometimes feel in Christian communities (ie the US vs THEM mentality) where some view people like me as a submersive threat who are quietly seeking to undermine the Church. (Once again I’m not trying to imply that anyone here is like this, but I do have family members with this mentality which is extremely frustrating).

My friend, you are truly an inspiration! And yes, I can understand how you would not get the support the need. God bless you.

 

[1990Domer]

When you said that they had the media “on their side”, it communicated to me that the media could help them, and that you wish you had that kind of “help.” I’m glad that this message wasn’t your intent.

Any media attention I would want would not I be attacking, demeaning, etc. it would be for educating. Autism and other invisible disabilities present in unique ways in each individual. Also, because those with invisible disabilities “look normal” they get treated very poorly. So, I never attack anyone nor espouse it. Rather, I choose to educate, educate, educate…anyone or any organization who will hear my story. Attacking is never the answer.

Am I bitter against the Catholic school? Sure. But it’s the kids, their upbringing, their entitled parents and their lack of discipline that I don’t like. They sure never showed Christian love to my kid. However, my kid never demeaned or bullied them back. He internalized it, which is why he is essentially suffering from PTSD.