Redeeming Qualities in Same-Sex Relationships

[Rau]

Again, if humans only had sex for procreation you may have a point but alas humans do not have sex just for procreation. Also, a man feels intense pleasure through his prostate gland etc…but alas that isn’t the point. Yes, I will agree with you that in order to have a baby one must have sex with the opposite sex but one can have sex with a member of the same sex. Again, in most of the animal kingdom sex is heavily regulated and not used for pleasure…humans could have evolved in the same manner but we didn’t.

This is speculation. The fruits of sexual intercourse, all its meanings are bound together. To masturbate, for one man to “join” with another man is still to exchange semen. We are designed that way. That ought to tell you something about the intended form and context for the act.

 

[lileli]

This is speculation. The fruits of sexual intercourse, all its meanings are bound together. To masturbate, for one man to “join” with another man is still to exchange semen. We are designed that way. That ought to tell you something about the intended form and context for the act.

What is speculation? No it is not. It is observable scientific fact.

 

[Thorolfr]

This is speculation. The fruits of sexual intercourse, all its meanings are bound together. To masturbate, for one man to “join” with another man is still to exchange semen. We are designed that way. That ought to tell you something about the intended form and context for the act.

So when two people kiss and saliva gets exchanged what does that tell us? Is there some hidden meaning in this since our saliva contains enzymes such as amylase for digestion? Does this mean that the two are trying to digest each other? Does this tell us about the intended form and context of the act? Is kissing disordered?

 

[Rau]

So when two people kiss and saliva gets exchanged what does that tell us? Is there some hidden meaning in this since our saliva contains enzymes such as amylase for digestion? Does this mean that the two are trying to digest each other? Does this tell us about the intended form and context of the act? Is kissing disordered?

Are you serious? Now if I inserted the finger of another in my mouth and chewed, that would be an intentional misuse of mouth, teeth and saliva…

PS. My stomach does not growl when kissing. It is not a digestive act.

 

[Louie1983]

Too many Catholic Children have grown up in hostile and psychologically damaging enviorments due to the error of belief that homosexuality is unnatural and sinful. **Our Church Fathers did not have knowledge of science to guide them **and therefore did not know that homosexuality has always been present in plenty of complex animal species. I am hopeful that Pope Francis is starting to correct this error and yes the Church has been in error before since it is a Church made of up of imperfect men. I would add women to that sentence but they don’t make policy.

1 st bolded point: No, they had the guidance of the Holy Spirit as was promisd by Our Lord…

2nd Bolded point: Can you give an example? and I mean where the Cburch has dogmatically proclaimed a doctrine and then back peddled…

You won’t find any.

 

[lileli]

1 st bolded point: No, they had the guidance of the Holy Spirit as was promisd by Our Lord…

2nd Bolded point: Can you give an example? and I mean where the Cburch has dogmatically proclaimed a doctrine and then back peddled…

You won’t find any.

I see you like to believe that the Holy Spirit prevents men from being in error but guess what science has proven that those Church fathers were in error.

Number 2 Galileo. How many times do our Popes have to apologize for the mistakes of the past? Science and reason should not be viewed as enemies of the Church. Instead, it should help guide our understanding. No one on this earth has Dogma on reality. The Church used to forbid interest on loans but it clearly doesnt care about that anymore… You can rename teachings as disciplines etc but the fact remains that the Catholic Church has evolved on many issues and it will continue to do so.

 

[Rau]

I see you like to believe that the Holy Spirit prevents men from being in error but guess what science has proven that those Church fathers were in error.

Number 2 Galileo. How many times do our Popes have to apologize for the mistakes of the past? Science and reason should not be viewed as enemies of the Church. Instead, it should help guide our understanding. No one on this earth has Dogma on reality. The Church used to forbid interest on loans but it clearly doesnt care about that anymore… You can rename teachings as disciplines etc but the fact remains that the Catholic Church has evolved on many issues and it will continue to do so.

There are not now not were their ever Church doctrines addressing science!

It is perhaps you who are evolving your beliefs, taking them to places that match your inclinations. That is an understandable temptation, for it seems to offer relief from the challenges of living as well as we can. Such is called “self-serving”.

 

[Louie1983]

I see you like to believe that the Holy Spirit prevents men from being in error but guess what science has proven that those Church fathers were in error.

Number 2 Galileo. How many times do our Popes have to apologize for the mistakes of the past? Science and reason should not be viewed as enemies of the Church. Instead, it should help guide our understanding. No one on this earth has Dogma on reality. The Church used to forbid interest on loans but it clearly doesnt care about that anymore… You can rename teachings as disciplines etc but the fact remains that the Catholic Church has evolved on many issues and it will continue to do so.

1, Wrong, when it comes to faith and morals the church is prevented from being in error because Jesus promised this. Prove how the church fathers were in error? Just because the science of today helps to explain Homosexuality more in depth doesn’t change the fact that the church taught and will forever teach that Homosexual acts are intrinsically evil and that the church can not and will not ever permit Gay marriage. This hasn’t changed and no amount of science will. Jesus said “Heaven and Earth may pass way, but my words never pass”.

2, Ah yes, Galileo. Again, was this church dogma or discipline as you mentioned? The church never dogmatically defined the issues with Galileo. Disciplines can change but not the Dogma that is behind it. The church has evolved in it’s disciplines and teachings (where it doesn’t contradict or affect doctrine), this is called development. Yes, the church has apologised for it’s handling of Galileo and other issues but don’t confuse this with changing it’s doctrine or the faith. This hasn’t hapeened, the church has apologised for it’s actions but not for proclaming the truth.

I think you are confusing Dogma and Discipline.

 

[Faithdancer]

Too many Catholic Children have grown up in hostile and psychologically damaging enviorments due to the error of belief that homosexuality is unnatural and sinful. Our Church Fathers did not have knowledge of science to guide them and therefore did not know that homosexuality has always been present in plenty of complex animal species. I am hopeful that Pope Francis is starting to correct this error and yes the Church has been in error before since it is a Church made of up of imperfect men. I would add women to that sentence but they don’t make policy.

The Church Fathers were certainly aware that a few individual humans were homosexuals, and the Church Fathers weren’t concerned with animal behavior. What an absurd argument!

 

[lileli]

There are not now not were their ever Church doctrines addressing science!

It is perhaps you who are evolving your beliefs, taking them to places that match your inclinations. That is an understandable temptation, for it seems to offer relief from the challenges of living as well as we can. Such is called “self-serving”.

Very Christian of you but sure the Church banning his ideas and just supporting an earth centered solar system does not constitute teaching. Also, do not dare make assumptions about me or call it an inclination. MOST THINGS humans do can be seen as self-serving, so please leave the condescending attitude at the door.

 

[Smack]

What is speculation? No it is not. It is observable scientific fact.

Your “scientific fact” is interesting, indeed. This must mean that dogs are meant to have sex with my chairs, poles, and sometimes my leg.

The real issue is not what WE think on the issue, or whatever “scientific fact” you think you can come up with. The real issue is what God thinks, and I can tell that you don’t care what He wants. If you did, you would want to do what He says, and stay away from the things that He says aren’t good for us.

What you are looking for is a *Unitarian Church *and I hope you find one that makes you happy. Please leave the Catholic Church alone. They want to love you and help you to understand things, but it sounds like you’re just looking for an organization that believes in what CS Lewis called a senile heavenly grandfather that just wants to give you spiritual candy and doesn’t care what you do. That kind of god doesn’t exist. God is our Heavenly Father who cares about us enough to make us brush our spiritual teeth so that we are healthy and happy.

 

[Rau]

Very Christian of you but sure the Church banning his ideas and just supporting an earth centered solar system does not constitute teaching. Also, do not dare make assumptions about me or call it an inclination. MOST THINGS humans do can be seen as self-serving, so please leave the condescending attitude at the door.

There are ample reference sources on Catholic Answers and elsewhere that address Gallileo if that is really where you wish to make a stand on Church teaching. And there was nothing condescending in my post. I make no assumptions about you - I only rely on your own statements.

 

[esieffe]

If participating in an Internet form causes you to doubt your Faith you need to flee the forum as quickly as possible .

 

[SuperLuigi]

=lileli;13188983]Too many Catholic Children have grown up in hostile and psychologically damaging enviorments due to the error of belief that homosexuality is unnatural and sinful. Our Church Fathers did not have knowledge of science to guide them and therefore did not know that homosexuality has always been present in plenty of complex animal species. I am hopeful that Pope Francis is starting to correct this error and yes the Church has been in error before since it is a Church made of up of imperfect men.

Well, some animals also kill their mates and eat their young. Should we subsidize and recognize that behavior, call people who speak out against it hateful bigots, have parades over it and sue people who won’t make flowers or bake a cake for the occasion?

If we use science to guide us, we know that homosexual behavior doesn’t benefit society, so we shouldn’t invest in it.

Too many Catholic Children have grown up in hostile and psychologically damaging enviorments due to the error of belief that homosexuality is unnatural and sinful.

Actually, I think that most Catholic children up to this point haven’t had much exposure/education to homosexual behavior at all.

In any case, homosexual behavior goes against natural law and is most definitely sinful.:yup:

I would add women to that sentence but they don’t make policy.

Meaning what, exactly?

 

[lileli]

Well, some animals also kill their mates and eat their young. Should we subsidize and recognize that behavior, call people who speak out against it hateful bigots, have parades over it and sue people who won’t make flowers or bake a cake for the occasion?

If we use science to guide us, we know that homosexual behavior doesn’t benefit society, so we shouldn’t invest in it.

Actually, I think that most Catholic children up to this point haven’t had much exposure/education to homosexual behavior at all.

In any case, homosexual behavior goes against natural law and is most definitely sinful.:yup:

Meaning what, exactly?

Animals that eat their young or mates are doing what is natural for them. Clearly, this isn’t the case for human well except for the fact that abortions have also been around since the dawn of humanity. Again, homosexuality is present in over 500 species how exactly is that against natural law? Clearly you know nothing about the evolution of sexuality and I suggest you get a better education. If someone opens a business they have service all , we as a society decided long ago that businesses should not be allowed to discriminate. Hello civil rights movement…

 

[lileli]

Your “scientific fact” is interesting, indeed. This must mean that dogs are meant to have sex with my chairs, poles, and sometimes my leg.

The real issue is not what WE think on the issue, or whatever “scientific fact” you think you can come up with. The real issue is what God thinks, and I can tell that you don’t care what He wants. If you did, you would want to do what He says, and stay away from the things that He says aren’t good for us.

What you are looking for is a *Unitarian Church *and I hope you find one that makes you happy. Please leave the Catholic Church alone. They want to love you and help you to understand things, but it sounds like you’re just looking for an organization that believes in what CS Lewis called a senile heavenly grandfather that just wants to give you spiritual candy and doesn’t care what you do. That kind of god doesn’t exist. God is our Heavenly Father who cares about us enough to make us brush our spiritual teeth so that we are healthy and happy.

Again, making assumptions about me isn’t me very Christian like. Just because I don’t agree with YOUR assumption of what God thinks doesnt mean I don’t care about the ideas of the Lord. I was baptized Catholic and have been Catholic therefore by Church teaching I am Catholic. Are you trying to kick me out? I don’t believe Pope Francis would appreciate your attitude much.

 

[lileli]

1, Wrong, when it comes to faith and morals the church is prevented from being in error because Jesus promised this. Prove how the church fathers were in error? Just because the science of today helps to explain Homosexuality more in depth doesn’t change the fact that the church taught and will forever teach that Homosexual acts are intrinsically evil and that the church can not and will not ever permit Gay marriage. This hasn’t changed and no amount of science will. Jesus said “Heaven and Earth may pass way, but my words never pass”.

2, Ah yes, Galileo. Again, was this church dogma or discipline as you mentioned? The church never dogmatically defined the issues with Galileo. Disciplines can change but not the Dogma that is behind it. The church has evolved in it’s disciplines and teachings (where it doesn’t contradict or affect doctrine), this is called development. Yes, the church has apologised for it’s handling of Galileo and other issues but don’t confuse this with changing it’s doctrine or the faith. This hasn’t hapeened, the church has apologised for it’s actions but not for proclaming the truth.

I think you are confusing Dogma and Discipline.

I find it funny that certain beliefs are regulated to being disciplines after they change or are proven wrong. I am sure sexual morality will also be a discipline one day…

 

[Smack]

Again, making assumptions about me isn’t me very Christian like. Just because I don’t agree with YOUR assumption of what God thinks doesnt mean I don’t care about the ideas of the Lord. I was baptized Catholic and have been Catholic therefore by Church teaching I am Catholic. Are you trying to kick me out? I don’t believe Pope Francis would appreciate your attitude much.

You should read the Bible. In it, it tells you what God thinks. Do you want me to quote Him?

 

[lileli]

You should read the Bible. In it, it tells you what God thinks. Do you want me to quote Him?

Sure

Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind, and with thy whole strength;
Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

 

[Rau]

Sure

Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind, and with thy whole strength;
Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

What do you understand the practical import of “Love God” to be?