Redeeming Qualities in Same-Sex Relationships

[Memaw]

None of these so called redeeming qualities justify the sin that is also present in these relationships.

Or the harm it does to the children they are raising. Watch the divorce rate soar among those that fought so hard for this crazy situation. Prayers for sure! God Bless, Memaw

 

[1ke]

So. What redeeming qualities, if any, are present in same-sex relationships that can be accepted and even celebrated by churches?

None.

I think you misunderstand the paragraph you quoted. Rather like Ratzinger’s/Pope Benedict’s comments on prostitutes (can’t remember if he was Pope when he made the comments or still CDF), this is also misunderstood if you believe it to be saying that SS relationships have “redeeming qualities”.

It doesn’t say there is anything to be accepted or celebrated in a same-sex relationship, but that those in them sometimes give mutual aid and sacrifice for the other. And that we must put innocent children in these situations first in priority.

 

[Memaw]

When my daughter was being targeted by a school bully there was one teacher who stepped in to resolve the situation. No other teacher or principal had the moral fortitude to help.

Turns out that this particular teacher had previously been in a local controversy when he “married” his partner (they have a son, also). There is no doubt in our minds that his experiences as a gay man led him to help our daughter in her situation.

That doesn’t excuse sin. Lots of people are kind and still sin. I read once where Al Capone cried once when a car he was in ran over a puppy. So what does that prove when it comes to his lifestyle??? God Bless, Memaw

 

[jeannetherese]

One redeeming quality I see is that when two people are involved in sustaining a particular mortal sin without involving others, at least it is only two people, not a whole crowd of partners, that are committing grave sin.

Such behavior does place their own redemption at very high risk indeed. As every soul is loved by Our Lord, the loss of these two would be terrible. I’m not sure that there are any redeeming qualities in such actions.
For an action to be morally right, I was taught that right reason, right action and right result
should be present. Sin would not be right action and the potential condemnation of a soul would not be the right result should such a soul be condemned.

However, a chaste and celibate relationship might involve the development of different virtues as each friend strives to encourage his or her friend to conform to church teachings.
Prudence,courage, generosity, self-sacrifice, are some of the virtues which might develop through this support.

A link to the Catholic support group Courage is posted below.
From their site:

"About Courage
Persons with homosexual desires have always been with us; however, until recent times, there has been little, if any, formal outreach from the Church in the way of support groups or information for such persons. Most were left to work out their path on their own. As a result, they found themselves listening to and accepting the secular society’s perspective and opting to act on their same-sex desires.

His Eminence, the late Terence Cardinal Cooke of New York, was aware of, and troubled by this situation. He knew that the individual dealing with same-sex attractions truly needed to experience the freedom of interior chastity and in that freedom find the steps necessary to living a fully Christian life in communion with God and others. He was concerned that many would not find this path and would be constantly trying to get their needs met in ways that ultimately do not satisfy the desires of the heart.

In response to this concern, he decided to form a spiritual support system which would assist men and women with same-sex attractions in living chaste lives in fellowship, truth and love."

couragerc.org/

May God bless us all and help us to live in accordance with His most holy will.
Amen.

 

[on_the_hill]

That doesn’t excuse sin. Lots of people are kind and still sin. I read once where Al Capone cried once when a car he was in ran over a puppy. So what does that prove when it comes to his lifestyle??? God Bless, Memaw

But the question is if the relationship has any redeeming qualities. I don’t know for sure if his relationship helped him help us, but I do believe that his experiences as a gay man probably made him empathetic to someone who was being targeted.

From a different perspective: straight man does not help my daughter. Gay man does help my daughter.

 

[john_ennis]

When my daughter was being targeted by a school bully there was one teacher who stepped in to resolve the situation. No other teacher or principal had the moral fortitude to help.

Turns out that this particular teacher had previously been in a local controversy when he “married” his partner (they have a son, also). There is no doubt in our minds that his experiences as a gay man led him to help our daughter in her situation.

Those who mistreated him also helped lead to the circumstances which helped your daughter out.

There is a “redeeming quality” of both of those sins. It’s too much of a stretch, though, to call it that.

Not that his sin is worse, or even as bad, as those who wrongly treated him. It’s just that sin which brings about unintended positive results…does it really have redeeming qualities?

 

[SilverLight]

I would say this is not a redeeming quality at all. More to the point, the Holy Father has said:

One redeeming quality I see is that when two people are involved in sustaining a particular mortal sin without involving others, at least it is only two people, not a whole crowd of partners, that are committing grave sin.

Your choice is valid and you have a right to it even if I do not agree.

 

[kozlosap]

The"redeeming" qualities are exactly the same for straight and gay couples. Commitment, shared joy and struggles and working to make our world a better place are just a few examples.

 

[DanielJT]

I agree that friendship is important, but gay relationships do not exclude the ability to habe friendships.

I’m not saying that it excludes. I am saying that is a redeemable quality and what same-sex relationships actually should be if they wish to remain pure and holy.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

There are a lot of threads talking about homosexuality and same-sex marriage. Perhaps a more positive spin is needed. As many of you know, in the mid-term synod report last October, a certain positive approach was given towards homosexual persons and homosexual relationships:

Without denying the moral problems connected to homosexual unions it has to be noted that there are cases in which mutual aid to the point of sacrifice constitutes a precious support in the life of the partners. Furthermore, the Church pays special attention to the children who live with couples of the same sex, emphasizing that the needs and rights of the little ones must always be given priority.​

So. What redeeming qualities, if any, are present in same-sex relationships that can be accepted and even celebrated by churches?

That was one of the controversial Midterm Reports. The FINAL report states:

Pastoral Attention towards Persons with Homosexual Tendencies

1. Some families have members who have a homosexual tendency. In this regard, the synod fathers asked themselves what pastoral attention might be appropriate for them in accordance with the Church’s teaching:** “There are absolutely no grounds for considering homosexual unions to be in any way similar or even remotely analogous to God’s plan for marriage and family**.”Nevertheless, men and women with a homosexual tendency ought to be received with respect and sensitivity. “Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided” (Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Considerations Regarding Proposals to Give Legal Recognition to Unions Between Homosexual Persons, 4).

1. Exerting pressure in this regard on the Pastors of the Church is totally unacceptable: this is equally so for international organizations who link their financial assistance to poorer countries with the introduction of laws which establish “marriage” between persons of the same sex.

 

[catholic1seeks]

The"redeeming" qualities are exactly the same for straight and gay couples. Commitment, shared joy and struggles and working to make our world a better place are just a few examples.

Nicely put

 

[catholic1seeks]

My thread/question assumes that churches regard homosexual sexual activity as sinful. But thereby saying that there are no redeeming qualities in a (romantic) homosexual relationship does *not *seem like a very Catholic answer to me. I have always understood the Catholic faith to be a faith that looks for what is good, true, and beautiful in everything. I cannot accept that this same faith would simply say there are no good or redeeming qualities in committed gay relationship.

There are and will be homosexual persons in relationships who want to find a place in the Catholic Church. They may not be everything that the Church wants from them, but I think churches will learn to see aspects that are truly good in these relationships.
​

 

[1ke]

My thread/question assumes that churches regard homosexual sexual activity as sinful. But thereby saying that there are no redeeming qualities in a (romantic) homosexual relationship does *not *seem like a very Catholic answer to me. I have always understood the Catholic faith to be a faith that looks for what is good, true, and beautiful in everything. I cannot accept that this same faith would simply say there are no good or redeeming qualities in committed gay relationship.

There are and will be homosexual persons in relationships who want to find a place in the Catholic Church. They may not be everything that the Church wants from them, but I think churches will learn to see aspects that are truly good in these relationships.
​

The Church would find many “redeeming qualities” in a chaste same sex friendship, regardless of whether the people involved are same sex or other sex attracted.

There are no redeeming qualities in sinful actions, be their participants same sex or other sex attracted. A man and woman living together outside marriage in a sexual relationship and two same sex people living together in a sexual relationship are all living in disordered situations, and no those situations do not have "redeeming qualities’.

What redeems them is rising ABOVE these sexual matters, whatever they are, and living in conformity with Christ.

 

[pnewton]

I would say on the positive side that there might well be redeeming qualities in the individuals in this type of relationship, though not the relationship itself. This question is like asking for the redeeming quality in molesting children. The person who does this might have redeeming qualities, but the action itself is devoid of them.

 

[catholic1seeks]

I would say on the positive side that there might well be redeeming qualities in the individuals in this type of relationship, though not the relationship itself. This question is like asking for the redeeming quality in molesting children. The person who does this might have redeeming qualities, but the action itself is devoid of them.

No it is not at all the same. What would be similar, assuming both are sinful, is if I were asking “What are the redeeming qualities in a homosexual sexual act?” But I am talking about a relationship (which can include sexual acts, since I am talking about a romantic relationship – not just a friendship, obviously). How can a homosexual relationship in itself be sinful??

 

[DanielJT]

My thread/question assumes that churches regard homosexual sexual activity as sinful. But thereby saying that there are no redeeming qualities in a (romantic) homosexual relationship does *not *seem like a very Catholic answer to me. I have always understood the Catholic faith to be a faith that looks for what is good, true, and beautiful in everything. I cannot accept that this same faith would simply say there are no good or redeeming qualities in committed gay relationship.

There are and will be homosexual persons in relationships who want to find a place in the Catholic Church. They may not be everything that the Church wants from them, but I think churches will learn to see aspects that are truly good in these relationships.
​

I think the problem I have here is with the word “redeeming”. There is not way to justify a sinful act, or redeem yourself, by countering with a good and holy act. This is not a balancing act. You are either engaged in a relationship of purity or not. I can’t beat the dog and then feed him steak and pretend like everything is ok with that.

Within any friendship there should be positive aspects to it. A homosexual relationship, for it to be pure, must be abstinent, but even if it is not there can still be a legitimate friendship. But the quality of the friendship in no way justifies or redeems the impure act.

 

[catholic1seeks]

The Church would find many “redeeming qualities” in a chaste same sex friendship, regardless of whether the people involved are same sex or other sex attracted.

There are no redeeming qualities in sinful actions, be their participants same sex or other sex attracted. A man and woman living together outside marriage in a sexual relationship and two same sex people living together in a sexual relationship are all living in disordered situations, and no those situations do not have "redeeming qualities’.

What redeems them is rising ABOVE these sexual matters, whatever they are, and living in conformity with Christ.

Like I said, this thread and its question assumes that churches (and many of the forum respondents) consider homosexual sexual** actions** to be sinful. A homosexual relationship consists of much, much more than sexual activity.

 

[catholic1seeks]

I think the problem I have here is with the word “redeeming”. There is not way to justify a sinful act, or redeem yourself, by countering with a good and holy act. This is not a balancing act. You are either engaged in a relationship of purity or not. I can’t beat the dog and then feed him steak and pretend like everything is ok with that.

Within any friendship there should be positive aspects to it. A homosexual relationship, for it to be pure, must be abstinent, but even if it is not there can still be a legitimate friendship. But the quality of the friendship in no way justifies or redeems the impure act.

I think the word my have been poor choice on my part, too. I didn’t think too much about the word when I used it; I saw the term used elsewhere in this context. But I do not mean it in the sense of* justifying* a sinful act. I really meant good qualities.

 

[Memaw]

I know lots of people who became better versions of themselves when they found someone to settle down with. I never saw it as an addiction, just a combination of happiness and someone pushing them to be better.

In my own family, I’ve seen people go on about how homosexuality is yadda yadda yadda, until my grandpa got very sick and his primary caretaker was his son’s longtime partner. Suddenly, the people who had been against it were grateful that the family had expanded to include someone so selfless. That changed a lot of hearts.

That doesn’t change the fact one bit that it is an abnormal and sinful lifestyle. God Bless, Memaw

 

[catholic1seeks]

That doesn’t change the fact one bit that it is an abnormal and sinful lifestyle. God Bless, Memaw

What do you consider to be the sinful “lifestyle” part of the relationship? The specific sexual acts themselves? A certain type of scandal involved? Or is there something more that makes homosexual relationships sinful?

I do not see why the focus is on the sexual activity of the gay relationship, when I admit that most churches would adhere to that view. That is different from simply saying “Because gay sex is wrong, gay relationships are entirely wrong.”