Reeeally embarassing question on marital relations

[anruari]

I remember Pope John Paul II having some views regarding sex within marriage, that it can be there for intimacy, outside of having another child, but otherwise, chastity is the course within marriage. It doesn’t sound like you are experiencing much in the way of intimacy, and it doesn’t sound like both you and your husband are having sex for another child, so, it doesn’t sound like what is happening sexually in your life is much better than people who are sexually promiscuous outside of marriage.

Blessed JP II said a lot about sex in marriage. he spent 3 years teaching every week on the Theology of the Body.

none of that is infallible or binding, there’s a lot to go into.
but the bible is infallible and binding. St Paul in his epistles warns married couples “do not deny each-other… lest you fall into sin”

Refusing to be sexually available to your spouse without a good reason is a sin. Of course that does not mean that you should have to say yes every time. and it applies to both the man and the woman.
The O.P. does have a good reason… provided she tries to overcome the problem… but it would be sinful for her to not try every moral avenue to overcome her difficulties.

within marriage, chastity looks different. when an man and wife enter the marital embrace, as an act of love (not *just * lust), they *are *acting chastely.

From the catechism

The various forms of chastity

2348 All the baptized are called to chastity. The Christian has "put on Christ,"135 the model for all chastity. All Christ’s faithful are called to lead a chaste life in keeping with their particular states of life. At the moment of his Baptism, the Christian is pledged to lead his affective life in chastity.

2349 "People should cultivate [chastity] in the way that is suited to their state of life. Some profess virginity or consecrated celibacy which enables them to give themselves to God alone with an undivided heart in a remarkable manner. Others live in the way prescribed for all by the moral law, whether they are married or single."136 Married people are called to live conjugal chastity; others practice chastity in continence:

There are three forms of the virtue of chastity: the first is that of spouses, the second that of widows, and the third that of virgins. We do not praise any one of them to the exclusion of the others. . . . This is what makes for the richness of the discipline of the Church.137

 

[Don_Jackson]

So the Blessed Mother and St. Joseph did not have a marriage? Although they both agreed to celibacy you can’t say that sex is a requirement for marriage.

Amen! I would only add that as much as I love the Catholic Church, annulment is man made and not God’s will. It is used as a convenient justification for those hard of heart,no better than Mose’s bill of divorce Christ speaks out against so clearly in Mark chapter 10.

 

[maryjk]

Amen! I would only add that as much as I love the Catholic Church, annulment is man made and not God’s will. It is used as a convenient justification for those hard of heart,no better than Mose’s bill of divorce Christ speaks out against so clearly in Mark chapter 10.

So you are saying that the Catholic Church is going against God’s teaching?

 

[fpt]

to get to the point…I hate it. Like, in a way I can’t even really explain. It’s nothing to do with my husband as a person, nor our actions. I have never had a negative view of sex, nor was I ever traumatized in a sexual way…I just find sex to be really, really gross and I want to freak out, cry, and slap my husband every time he tries to touch me. I’m not OCD, I’m not germaphobic, I’ve never bought into the lies that the church supposedly teaches that sex is bad. i was fully prepared ot enjoy it after marriage.

The only thing I can think is that I feel like I made a major mistake in my marriage. We married very quick, very young and I’m coming to see, I married for all the wrong reasons. The assumption that he’d be my knight and save me and fix all my problems. Yeah, I know, stupid stupid stupid me, i made my own issue, I know. So perhaps my issue is a marital one, and not a marital embrace one. But currently speaking, my issues with sex are more pressing. I just…I don’t want him to touch me, I don’t want to touch him, and I feel no love or connection to him when we have sex. It’s usually just me convincing him to just not touch me at all while I do whatever he wants me to do, and pray that he hurries up. He is completely oblivious, and any time I try to talk to him about it his only solution is trying a new position. Therapy and marriage counseling is completely out of the question for him.

So…I’m pretty much done for ten ways to Sunday…just wondering what to do.

Very important questions for you and your husband.

1. The marriage is, by principle, a sexed and sexual institution and also a sexed and sexual contract. The fact of making one flesh is the hard core of state of marriage. Thus the fact of practicing the marital act, in the human fashion with some sexual cooperation is a moral right, a moral obligation and a moral duty for each member of couple.
   The day of wedding there is a mutual and reciprocal donation of bodies for conjugal sex (the right on the body). My body is your body and, your body is my body. Therefore, in the vows, the bride agrees to be a female and to give her feminity to her bridegroom, and it is the the same for the bridegroom. In addition, husband agrees to receive the feminity of his bride, and it is the same for the bride (equality and equity about conjugal sex, alterity and complementarity of state of marriage). In the marriage, the marital sex is the rule.

Were you okay with this catholic teaching, the day of your wedding? Today, are you okay with this doctrine? Were you against the conjugal sexuality, the day of your wedding? Did you know what was the sexual manner with its corollaries, the day of your wedding? Were you against the " copula carnalis " (make love in human fashion with sexual cooperation)? The same questions for your husband?

1. You need to understand why you do not want to touch him, and you need to know why you do not want to be touched by him. Which are reasons? psychological, mental, emotional, sentimental, spiritual, philosophical, theological, physical, physiological, sexual…etc.? Are you okay with thses questions? The same questions for your husband?
2. What do you want to do for the future? Do you love him? Did you loved him? Did you have a marital sex, with a sexual cooperation in the human fashion? Do you want to get a catholic declaration of nullity of your marriage?

 

[Don_Jackson]

So you are saying that the Catholic Church is going against God’s teaching?

I’m saying the catholic church is making the yoke heavier, in some cases. Annullment is an institutional not a godly precept.

 

[Cristiano]

I’m saying the catholic church is making the yoke heavier, in some cases. Annullment is an institutional not a godly precept.

Do you believe that the all attempts to administer sacraments are always valid?

 

[Victorious_song]

Very important questions for you and your husband.

1. The marriage is, by principle, a sexed and sexual institution and also a sexed and sexual contract. The fact of making one flesh is the hard core of state of marriage. Thus the fact of practicing the marital act, in the human fashion with some sexual cooperation is a moral right, a moral obligation and a moral duty for each member of couple.
   The day of wedding there is a mutual and reciprocal donation of bodies for conjugal sex (the right on the body). My body is your body and, your body is my body. Therefore, in the vows, the bride agrees to be a female and to give her feminity to her bridegroom, and it is the the same for the bridegroom. In addition, husband agrees to receive the feminity of his bride, and it is the same for the bride (equality and equity about conjugal sex, alterity and complementarity of state of marriage). In the marriage, the marital sex is the rule.

Were you okay with this catholic teaching, the day of your wedding? Today, are you okay with this doctrine? Were you against the conjugal sexuality, the day of your wedding? Did you know what was the sexual manner with its corollaries, the day of your wedding? Were you against the " copula carnalis " (make love in human fashion with sexual cooperation)? The same questions for your husband?

1. You need to understand why you do not want to touch him, and you need to know why you do not want to be touched by him. Which are reasons? psychological, mental, emotional, sentimental, spiritual, philosophical, theological, physical, physiological, sexual…etc.? Are you okay with thses questions? The same questions for your husband?
2. What do you want to do for the future? Do you love him? Did you loved him? Did you have a marital sex, with a sexual cooperation in the human fashion? Do you want to get a catholic declaration of nullity of your marriage?

Nobody told me before marriage that my husband had a “right” to my body, and saying such makes me wants a divorce, NOW, because it’s literally THE most disgusting set of words I’ve heard in my life, Period.

 

[Victorious_song]

This may be the root of the problem!!!
As the first responders stated, you really need to see a therapist about this. Ideally it should be a Catholic or at least a Christian therapist.
Most catholic dioceses have marriage therapists.
If you husband wont go, you can still get help for yourself…

Your statement quoted above makes me think that the problem may have it’s root in the role models you learned as a child and teenager.

look at it this way:
People who grow up in loving stable homes are most likely to be able to form loving stable homes.
People who’s parents divorced are many times more likely to get divorced themselves
People who grew up in single parent households and did not witness stable heterosexual relationships are highly unlikely to be able to make a marriage work.
These statements are based on a summary of almost every scientific survey. They are statical probablilties, not certainties for any individual.

If you grew up in a broken home with two parents who had very strained relationships and rarely or never saw them express physical affection… or worse if your father rarely expressed physical affection to you, then this will have had a huge impact on your developing personality.
Only a professional therapist can assess this (if it really does apply to you)and advise on treatment.

If we do not identify and challenge in ourselves the mistakes of our parents we are doomed to repeat them… but this is a big IF. - we can identify these things and change them.

Annullemnt

This Idea gets thrown around to much.
If you cannot bring your marriage into a healthy state then this might be an option that is worth pursuing. It may be that your marriage is inherently null. but a marriage is assumed to be valid untill it is proven otherwise.
your first duty should be to try to fix what’s wrong.

You have said that your husband clearly has his own problems that he too is bringing to the table, however here we are talking about you.

You swore. in front of God, (and all your friends and family), to Love, Honor and Obey (or Serve). To Have and to Hold, till death do you part.
that may have been undertaken too lightly, but it was undertaken.
your first responsibility is to fix it.
you say you want to fix it. this is good. so put out of your mind the people suggesting otherwise.

Go see you priest, or look on your diocesan website. Get a referral to your local catholic marriage Counselling service.

a need for sexual therapy is far more common than many people would think. you are by no means alone or unusual in this.

God bless you and I will pray for you.

Please if you think I’m being harsh or unloving in the above post, then read it a second time, and with the thought in mind that I do not mean to be harsh. I say this all with love.

Jesus is the ;Great Healer. if you let him he will heal you of this problem.

Are people just not reading my posts? I AM seeing a therapist, damn it! And, I’m sorry, where did I say I want to fix this? I actually want to go move back home right now, and get away from his batshit insane religious rambleing, his non-stop video game playing, his drunken crack-head friends and entitlement complex that compels him to spend every cent I make.

 

[Cristiano]

Nobody told me before marriage that my husband had a “right” to my body, and saying such makes me wants a divorce, NOW, because it’s literally THE most disgusting set of words I’ve heard in my life, Period.

Well you have to understand that your body belongs to him and his body belongs to you. That is really the deep meaning of being one flesh, you have to care for and enjoy each others’ body like if it were your own, because it is your own too.

 

[fpt]

Nobody told me before marriage that my husband had a “right” to my body, and saying such makes me wants a divorce, NOW, because it’s literally THE most disgusting set of words I’ve heard in my life, Period.

For reading:

When Abstinance is not mutually agreed upon

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=709702

Marriage vows mention “conjugal act” as “obligation” ?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=698329

The so-called marital obligation?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=697005

threads to read

 

[Victorious_song]

Well you have to understand that your body belongs to him and his body belongs to you. That is really the deep meaning of being one flesh, you have to care for and enjoy each others’ body like if it were your own, because it is your own too.

If thats the case I want a divorce. I never agreed to that, and it sickens me on the most basic level.

 

[maryjk]

Are people just not reading my posts? I AM seeing a therapist, damn it! And, I’m sorry, where did I say I want to fix this? I actually want to go move back home right now, and get away from his batshit insane religious rambleing, his non-stop video game playing, his drunken crack-head friends and entitlement complex that compels him to spend every cent I make.

If thats the case I want a divorce. I never agreed to that, and it sickens me on the most basic level.

Maybe it is everything else that sickens you, rather than the Catholic teaching?

Did you not meet his friends before your marriage? Or even talk about how you would spend your time together? Or how to spend money? Did you talk at all before your marriage?

 

[Oneofthewomen]

OP- did you go through pre-Cana?

To be honest, your understanding of marriage seems to be quite skewed, especially your response to Christiano above.

Mark chapter 10-
But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female. For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother [and be joined to his wife],and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, no human being must separate.”

This is exactly what marriage is all about!

 

[Victorious_song]

Maybe it is everything else that sickens you, rather than the Catholic teaching?

Did you not meet his friends before your marriage? Or even talk about how you would spend your time together? Or how to spend money? Did you talk at all before your marriage?

He has “friends” popping out of the woodwork from every grocery store trip, ever bar night, evern state we’ve been to. Everyone eh ever met is his “friend”. And no, I’d only met maybe 5 of them before marriage. The others were out of state or in jail or I had no idea they existed.

Aure we did. But that’s not how it happened. He told me he was Christian artist, active in church. He stopped going to church the week we got married, andhis guitar is collecting dust.

Again, sure we talked about money, but that seems to be before we had any. Once we GOT money, he needed $200 pairs of shoes, $80 pairs of pants and $300 gaming systems.

 

[Cristiano]

Are people just not reading my posts? I AM seeing a therapist, damn it! And, I’m sorry, where did I say I want to fix this? I actually want to go move back home right now, and get away from his batshit insane religious rambleing, his non-stop video game playing, his drunken crack-head friends and entitlement complex that compels him to spend every cent I make.

Well at least you know how you truly feel about the whole thing. You are really angry about a lot of things and if you have decided that do not want to fix it then I think that it is not going to be fixed. It is also possible that you walked into your wedding for all the wrong reasons and with major misconceptions about marriage. Do not blame that on him even if he does not meet any of the basics expectations. I think that you seeking help is something necessary for you independently of your husband, and the fact that you are accepting that help through a therapist is a good thing, just remember that therapy does not help you in making moral decisions but in making comfortable decisions for your own individual good.

 

[Victorious_song]

OP- did you go through pre-Cana?

To be honest, your understanding of marriage seems to be quite skewed, especially your response to Christiano above.

**

This is exactly what marriage is all about!

Yes, we went through pre-cana, but I don’t remember anyone every saying I owed him a “debt” or that my body belonged to him!

 

[Victorious_song]

Well at least you know how you truly feel about the whole thing. You are really angry about a lot of things and if you have decided that do not want to fix it then I think that it is not going to be fixed. It is also possible that you walked into your wedding for all the wrong reasons and with major misconceptions about marriage. Do not blame that on him even if he does not meet any of the basics expectations. I think that you seeking help is something necessary for you independently of your husband, and the fact that you are accepting that help through a therapist is a good thing, just remember that therapy does not help you in making moral decisions but in making comfortable decisions for your own individual good.

Don’t blame him if he completely lied to me about who he was, what his morals were, what his goals were? Right, because it’s ALL my fault!

 

[Cristiano]

If thats the case I want a divorce. I never agreed to that, and it sickens me on the most basic level.

If that it is how you truly think about marriage then probably marriage is not your calling. You do not have a moral obligation to be married to anyone, but if you get married you are morally obliged to accept some specific conditions. I would suggest that you keep talking to your therapist and in the mean time you should also talk to a priest, he could help you understanding what you really mean by marriage and if that it is really your calling. Maybe you will be called to marriage in the future but not to this man at the present time.

 

[fpt]

Nobody told me before marriage that my husband had a “right” to my body, and saying such makes me wants a divorce, NOW, because it’s literally THE most disgusting set of words I’ve heard in my life, Period.

According to my understanding of your situation:

1. You need to know (to discover) why you do not want to touch him and why you do not want to be touched by him (physical affection);
2. You need to know (to understand) why you do not want to make one flesh with your husband. Why do not want to offer him your body ? Why do not want to receive his body? Why do not want to give him your body? Why do not you want to respect the mutual and reciprocal donation of bodies? You have the moral right to make love with him, and you have the moral obligation to make love with him.

Canon 1096
1.** For matrimonial consent to be valid it is necessary that the contracting parties at least not be ignorant that marriage is a permanent consortium between a man and a woman which is ordered toward the procreation of offspring by means of some sexual cooperation.**

1. Such ignorance is not presumed after puberty.

The person entering marriage must have actual basic knowledge of the object of marital consent. This need not be an educated or special knowledge of marriage, only that it entails,

a) a consortium, or partnership, to achieve certain goals

b) that it is a permanent partnership, as opposed to temporary or transient,

c) **that it is between a man and a woman (persons of the opposite sex)**

d) **that it is ordered to the procreation of children (raising a family),**

e) **and it is achieved through some kind of sexual cooperation.**

This knowledge is presumed, until proven otherwise, in anyone after puberty (which is presumed in females at age 14 and males at age 16; canon 1083).

bookpump.com/dps/pdf-b/1121342b.pdf

 

[Victorious_song]

…I know that it isn’t now. I just wish I had known that when I was a stupid 20 year old desperate to get married. I do not like my husband, but I do not hate him. We never fight, we just…never really talk, either, and when we do, it tends to grate on me so much that I just smile, nod and go to make dinner. I just wish I could hopon a time machine and beat stupid 20 year old me over the head and tell her she’s not Cinderella and he isn’t going to save her.