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Jan2
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Does anyone know where I can access the reference that contains a listing of the 33,000+ Protestant denominations?
Thanks for your help.
Thanks for your help.
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Mannyfit75
Guest
Jan,
Here you go.
bringyou.to/apologetics/a106.htm
Steve’s Blog on 33,000plus
blog.catholic-convert.com/?p=1522
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Jan2
Guest
Thank you.
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TriuneUnity
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It seems to me that basing the denomination count on country is a bad route to go. Two-hundred and forty two Roman Catholic denominations?? Is this really a reliable source?
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emeraldisle
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The OP asked the following question;
Where is the list of 33,000+ Protestant denominations in the links you posted?
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Mannyfit75
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The source is in the site provided. The book is1,699 pages, of the World Christian Encyclopedia, published by Oxford University Press
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emeraldisle
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Mannyfit75
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The source is a book. Read my post. World Christian Encyclopedia, published by Oxford University Press The book contains the list on denomination. You have buy or borrow the book from the local library. She ask for sources where they came up with 33,000 denomination came from and it comes from the book which I mention. The Source is a Book not a link.
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emeraldisle
Guest
So you are now admitting that the links you posted as evidence for 33,000+ Protestant denominations was a mistake. Also your new attempt at giving evidence for 33,000+ Protestant denominations is wrong too. You need to check your sources before you post them as evidence.
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Tom
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There are not 33,000 Protestant denominations! There are 33,000 too many Protestant denominations!!!
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PhilVaz
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I compiled that article last year in response to stuff that went back and forth between James White and Steve Ray on the 33000 number. All the relevant stats are provided on my page. Of the 33000, about 22000+ are Independents (97% of these “Indies” are Protestant) and a large chunk of these are:
– “White-led charismatic” (17,478,000 members [year 1995], in 2856 separate denominations [year 2000])
– “African independent pentecostal” (18,943,000 members [year 1995], in 5385 separate denominations [year 2000])
– “African neocharismatic of mixed traditions” (1,500,000 members [year 1995], in 3333 separate denominations [year 2000])
These account for more than half (53%) of the 22,000+ “Independent” denominations. Now if you actually want a LISTING of many of these denominations, here are some 9000+ in an Excel spreadsheet (all they had in the “World Christian Database” online).
DENOMS-BY-NAME.zip
The “problem” overall with these numbers as said before in here, is the World Christian Encyclopedia is counting these “by country” which is why you have the “242 Roman Catholic” denominations. If you want actual “unique” denominations, you’ll have to do some “dividing by country” (and not all “denominations” are in all 242 countries).
BTW, your current “Christian denominations count” for today (6/26/2008) is 39,901 so we are rapidly approaching 40,000 denominations in a few more weeks. Yes, divide that number “by country” where appropriate.
Phil P
– “White-led charismatic” (17,478,000 members [year 1995], in 2856 separate denominations [year 2000])
– “African independent pentecostal” (18,943,000 members [year 1995], in 5385 separate denominations [year 2000])
– “African neocharismatic of mixed traditions” (1,500,000 members [year 1995], in 3333 separate denominations [year 2000])
These account for more than half (53%) of the 22,000+ “Independent” denominations. Now if you actually want a LISTING of many of these denominations, here are some 9000+ in an Excel spreadsheet (all they had in the “World Christian Database” online).
DENOMS-BY-NAME.zip
The “problem” overall with these numbers as said before in here, is the World Christian Encyclopedia is counting these “by country” which is why you have the “242 Roman Catholic” denominations. If you want actual “unique” denominations, you’ll have to do some “dividing by country” (and not all “denominations” are in all 242 countries).
BTW, your current “Christian denominations count” for today (6/26/2008) is 39,901 so we are rapidly approaching 40,000 denominations in a few more weeks. Yes, divide that number “by country” where appropriate.
Phil P
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PhilVaz
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emerald << So you are now admitting that the links you posted as evidence for 33,000+ Protestant denominations was a mistake. >>
It’s not a mistake, since I compiled it. What I compile is never a mistake.
The Encyclopedia source does have 33000 total “Christian denominations.” The mistake (perhaps) is their methodology, how they are counting (by country), that is if you want truly “unique” denominations you’ll have to do some dividing (by country).
Hey I’m the only person providing ALL the actual numbers in excruciating detail. Neither James White nor Steve Ray did that last year (in their blog battles), although Steve Ray did provide more of the photocopied pages than White. I give the whole shebang on the stats.
Phil P
It’s not a mistake, since I compiled it. What I compile is never a mistake.
The Encyclopedia source does have 33000 total “Christian denominations.” The mistake (perhaps) is their methodology, how they are counting (by country), that is if you want truly “unique” denominations you’ll have to do some dividing (by country).
Hey I’m the only person providing ALL the actual numbers in excruciating detail. Neither James White nor Steve Ray did that last year (in their blog battles), although Steve Ray did provide more of the photocopied pages than White. I give the whole shebang on the stats.
Phil P
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emeraldisle
Guest
Nice try but you too have failed to produce the evidence that shows that there is 33,000+ Protestant denominations.emerald << So you are now admitting that the links you posted as evidence for 33,000+ Protestant denominations was a mistake. >>
It’s not a mistake, since I compiled it. What I compile is never a mistake.
The Encyclopedia source does have 33000 total “Christian denominations.” The mistake (perhaps) is their methodology, how they are counting (by country), that is if you want truly “unique” denominations you’ll have to do some dividing (by country).
BTW you will never be able to produce such evidence because none exists.
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ChrisWRIT
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I couldn’t say if there are 33K Protestant denominations. Maybe, maybe not.
There are apparently 9,000 or more according to the “World Christian Database” site (worldchristiandatabase.org/wcd/) which is a “Center for the Study of Global Christianity” run by the Gordon Cromwell Theological Seminary.
Not that 9,000 or even 900 is much better than 30,000, but hey…
The above mentioned “World Christian Encyclopedia” might have more thorough information, but it appears to cost about $300-400.
Chris
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Teflon93
Guest
Congratulations—the chaos of Protestantism makes even a simple enumeration of communities impossible. Well done!Nice try but you too have failed to produce the evidence that shows that there is 33,000+ Protestant denominations.
BTW you will never be able to produce such evidence because none exists.
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PhilVaz
Guest
emerald << Nice try but you too have failed to produce the evidence that shows that there is 33,000+ Protestant denominations. BTW you will never be able to produce such evidence because none exists. >>
So sorry, if it is “Protestants” you want then you have to count Protestants + 97% of the Indies + the Anglicans. We’ll leave off the Marginals, Roman Catholics, and Orthodox. That gives us 31000+.
It is 33000 total “Christian denominations” if you count all the “mega-blocs.”
The problem, for the 33000th time
is they are indeed “counting by country” so you’ll have to somewhat “divide by country”…
And yes there are indeed 9000+ plus provided by “World Christian Database” online which I link above in a XLS spreadsheet.
I’m neither defending nor denying the numbers, just providing the facts and stats, and suggesting some problems.
Phil P
So sorry, if it is “Protestants” you want then you have to count Protestants + 97% of the Indies + the Anglicans. We’ll leave off the Marginals, Roman Catholics, and Orthodox. That gives us 31000+.
It is 33000 total “Christian denominations” if you count all the “mega-blocs.”
The problem, for the 33000th time
is they are indeed “counting by country” so you’ll have to somewhat “divide by country”…And yes there are indeed 9000+ plus provided by “World Christian Database” online which I link above in a XLS spreadsheet.
I’m neither defending nor denying the numbers, just providing the facts and stats, and suggesting some problems.
Phil P
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Teflon93
Guest
This is an easy calculation.
There are 245 countries.
We subtract one because it is The Vatican.
That leaves 244.
If we really, really generously assumed that every single one of the 244 had every single Protestant denomination represented (an impossibility due to the number which have state religions and do not tolerate such presence; e.g., Saudi Arabia), then we divide the 33,000 by 244 and get 136 Protestant denominations, representing the absolute floor for this number.
Even were we to grant this ridiculously optimistic estimate (according to the Handbook of Denominations in the United States 12 edition there are 156 major Protestant denominations in the U.S. alone), 136 is enormously bigger than the three founded by Luther, Calvin, and Zwingli in the 16th century and more than 2 orders of magnitude bigger than the Catholic Church.
Unity is not the Protestant strong suit, by any means, is it?
There are 245 countries.
We subtract one because it is The Vatican.
That leaves 244.
If we really, really generously assumed that every single one of the 244 had every single Protestant denomination represented (an impossibility due to the number which have state religions and do not tolerate such presence; e.g., Saudi Arabia), then we divide the 33,000 by 244 and get 136 Protestant denominations, representing the absolute floor for this number.
Even were we to grant this ridiculously optimistic estimate (according to the Handbook of Denominations in the United States 12 edition there are 156 major Protestant denominations in the U.S. alone), 136 is enormously bigger than the three founded by Luther, Calvin, and Zwingli in the 16th century and more than 2 orders of magnitude bigger than the Catholic Church.
Unity is not the Protestant strong suit, by any means, is it?
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PhilVaz
Guest
BTW, as for the original post:
“…where I can access the reference that contains…”
The original post is asking “where I can access the reference” and that reference is indeed World Christian Encyclopedia and it is at your local university or public library. Change “Protestant” to total “Christian denominations” and we’re fine. Volume 1 does provide and list all the “Christian denominations” one could ever want (with a summary on pages 16-18). Again, all “sorted” by country. For example, page 783 in volume 1 is for the U.S.A. (to prove I’ve checked those volumes myself).
Volume 2 contains all the information you could ever want (but were afraid to ask) about the non-Christian religions. It was definitely a large undertaking and let’s give them some credit. Except for the “counting by country” part for those of you who want “unique” numbers.
Phil P
“…where I can access the reference that contains…”
The original post is asking “where I can access the reference” and that reference is indeed World Christian Encyclopedia and it is at your local university or public library. Change “Protestant” to total “Christian denominations” and we’re fine. Volume 1 does provide and list all the “Christian denominations” one could ever want (with a summary on pages 16-18). Again, all “sorted” by country. For example, page 783 in volume 1 is for the U.S.A. (to prove I’ve checked those volumes myself).
Volume 2 contains all the information you could ever want (but were afraid to ask) about the non-Christian religions. It was definitely a large undertaking and let’s give them some credit. Except for the “counting by country” part for those of you who want “unique” numbers.
Phil P
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TriuneUnity
Guest
I am just happy there is only one Lutheran denomination, and 242 Roman Catholic ones. Whew.BTW, as for the original post:
“…where I can access the reference that contains…”
The original post is asking “where I can access the reference” and that reference is indeed World Christian Encyclopedia and it is at your local university or public library. Change “Protestant” to total “Christian denominations” and we’re fine. Volume 1 does provide and list all the “Christian denominations” one could ever want (with a summary on pages 16-18). Again, all “sorted” by country. For example, page 783 in volume 1 is for the U.S.A. (to prove I’ve checked those volumes myself).
Volume 2 contains all the information you could ever want (but were afraid to ask) about the non-Christian religions. It was definitely a large undertaking and let’s give them some credit. Except for the “counting by country” part for those of you who want “unique” numbers.
Phil P
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PhilVaz
Guest
TriUn << I am just happy there is only one Lutheran denomination, and 242 Roman Catholic ones. Whew. >>
Ah ah ah not so fast. The 242 is kinda weird I’ll admit…but…as I provide the stats in my article:
Lutherans (61 million members, 253 denominations) [year 2000 numbers]
So sorry, you beat us by a couple. And Lutherans are not even in all 242 countries (I do not think).
Phil P
Ah ah ah not so fast.
The 242 is kinda weird I’ll admit…but…as I provide the stats in my article:Lutherans (61 million members, 253 denominations) [year 2000 numbers]
So sorry, you beat us by a couple. And Lutherans are not even in all 242 countries (I do not think).
Phil P
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