Referendum this coming Friday 25th May in Ireland

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No I disagree, this is something that is wrong and against God the power of pray can overcome it. I don’t get what your trying to achieve here! God gives us all free will and when something like this is trying to be legalised we can ask His help.
 
anon98328916 said:
No I disagree, this is something that is wrong and against God the power of pray can overcome it. I don’t get what your trying to achieve here! God gives us all free will and when something like this is trying to be legalised we can ask His help.
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If they vote to legalise abortion, will that mean prayer didn’t work?
 
Bradskii said:
What conclusions can you draw from these defeats in one of the most Catholic countries on the planet
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What’s right and what’s popular don’t always align, and Ireland is only nominally Catholic these days. Not sure what other conclusions you think we should draw. Good causes go down in electoral defeat all the time.
 
Kevin, I do understand, God does not interfere with our choices. My point is praying that enough people will be voting NO so this will not be passed. I am curious as to where you are going with this?
 
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No it will not mean prayer didn’t work. We need to to keep praying.
 
BoomBoomMancini said:
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Bradskii:
What conclusions can you draw from these defeats in one of the most Catholic countries on the planet
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What’s right and what’s popular don’t always align, and Ireland is only nominally Catholic these days. Not sure what other conclusions you think we should draw. Good causes go down in electoral defeat all the time.
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I would have thought that the conclusion was obvious. Indeed it is obvious. But you choose to ignore it.

The percentage of those who identify as being Catholic is falling. Quite significantly. Yet nearly 8 out of 10 people consider themselves as such. And in recent referendums, the people have voted, in effect, against church teachings.

Same in Italy. Where contraception is freely available (over 90% of women use it), abortion is legal as is also single sex marriage.

These are not decisions that are going to be reversed. That the church was right on these matters used to be an article of faith. Now people are realising it’s a matter of opinion.
 
Brad, it might be your opinion that prayer doesn’t work but many including myself disagree, if you like look up miracles that have happened in countries from praying especially the Rosary…miracles that have happened people individually. Another thing when we pray for things whatever that may be it does not always mean we get what we hoped for, God’s will is different from ours. The church in Ireland is suffering and we have offended God greatly, we need to turn back to God before it’s to late.
 
We pray that God will send His spirit upon voters and guide them to vote no. We pray that he’ll dispel the lies that the repeal campaign has spun, and that voters might be able to see the truth: A vote for yes is a vote for state-sanctioned murder.
 
But you haven’t answered the question. Will you claim that prayer works if abortion is voted down?

And if people do vote for it then according to you we have two options. Either prayer didn’t work or it was God’s will that abortion be allowed. Which would it be?
 
Bradskii said:
These are not decisions that are going to be reversed. That the church was right on these matters used to be an article of faith. Now people are realising it’s a matter of opinion
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You’re assuming that just because an increasingly large number of people believe something it’s true. I don’t get what you’re trying to prove.

Also, I’d be wary of assuming that history has a clear trajectory that continues forever in a single direction.
 
I did answer your question regardless of what happens God’s will is always right. Down the line be it generations from now Ireland will come back to the Catholic faith and everything sinful that has been let into this country will be reversed. I didn’t say that, God does not intervene that is why He has given us freewill, our prayers are always heard and why we must pray that people will be guided by God to make the right decision.
 
God does not intervene but you are going to pray that He does. Otherwise what is the point of praying to Him?
 
Brad, your just picked and choosing what you want to out of what I said. I also stated “praying can help people to be guided by God to make the right decision”.
 
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I assume no such thing. In fact, I would argue most stridently that it is not necessarily the case.

What is the case is that Ireland is not by any reasonable measure a Catholic country. The people are Catholic in name only. The church has not only lost its influence but also any claim it might have had to speak for the people.
 
anon98328916 said:
Brad, your just picked and choosing what you want to out of what I said. I also stated “praying can help people to be guided by God to make the right decision”.
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So if He doesn’t guide them to vote against abortion (and that’s intervention) then His will be done?
 
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Welcome to Brad the atheist! We are glad you are here on the Catholic forum–you must have an interest in Catholicism, right?
I am offering Mass today and tomorrow for Ireland to vote against the horrific practice of abortion, the killing of innocent life in the womb in a most violent and painful manner.
We have the utmost confidence that God always answers prayer. Faith, hope, and charity teach us so. If the vote turns out to be for legal abortion, that in no way nullifies the efficacy of prayer. God does not always work the way we want or expect Him to work, but He is always working in his way and in his time to bring about his will. It will happen, on God’s time. So there’s a need to persevere with hope and joy, but no need to fear or for discouragement. The Immaculate Heart of Mary will triumph.
 
Bradskii said:
What is the case is that Ireland is not by any reasonable measure a Catholic country. The people are Catholic in name only
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That’s exactly what I said: Ireland’s Catholicism is nominal at best. That people who are religious in name only probably aren’t going to reflect religious values in the voting booth isn’t really an amazing insight.
 
KevinK said:
I know what outcome you are praying for, but for God to achieve this He must necessarily interfere with the free will votes of enough people to achieve your desired result. Would you agree?
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So when the Battle of Lepanto was won, against the odds, through the power of the Rosary, was God not interfering there?
 
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