Refugees detained at US airports after Trump exec order

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josh987654321 said:
We will wait and see, but yea, I don’t know who the professionals were under Obama, but Obama and their polices and actions showed they didn’t understand and if one has a fundamental misunderstanding of the situation, then I believe they cannot possibly vet properly no matter how professional they are.

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh
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That is strange. When I asked you how much vetting was enough, you said “I don’t know. I trust the professionals”. But now you suddenly acquired the ability to decide this question yourself - at least to the extent of being able to say when the professionals were wrong.
 
philipl said:
call them migrants or refugees, I dont care, Trump is applying common sense.
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How is it common sense to have an EO that ignores Saudi Arabia? If only I had a quarter for every time I heard the phrase “common sense” to explain why a country that has spawned so many terrorists was left off the ‘dangerous countries’ list.
 
Thorolfr said:
If Muslims are denied entry unless they reject sharia law, should Jews also be denied entry to the US unless they reject Halakha (Jewish law)? And what about Catholics? Should they be denied entry unless they reject Catholic canon law?
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What a specious argument! Where in either Judism or Catholism does it call for the killing of those who do not adhere to the faith?
 
FollowChrist34 said:
To destroy Trump with lies.
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With all due respect, you can’t seriously expect anyone to see Trump as a victim of the media. He played them, successfully, into giving him an unprecedented amount of free air time. Then on day one of his administration, he has Sean Spicer stand in front of the world and lie his pants off about trivial things, just to ease Trump’s bruised ego.

Mr. Trump has a long way to go in earning most people’s respect, as most voters did not in fact choose him (as much as he likes to pretend otherwise).
 
randomuser said:
How is it common sense to have an EO that ignores Saudi Arabia? If only I had a quarter for every time I heard the phrase “common sense” to explain why a country that has spawned so many terrorists was left off the ‘dangerous countries’ list.
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You bring up Saudi Arabia, which I think is very good, I am in agreement with you on that, but do you realize it was Obama and Clinton who were bending over backwards for Saudi Arabia? As evident by them being voted in on the UN human rights council?

Trump no doubt will have to be very diplomatic, but nevertheless, if you line Trump and Clinton up, you would find Clinton’s policies would have favored Saudi Arabia far more.

So you criticize Trump over Saudi Arabia, but I don’t remember reading these comments from you when Obama was in and Clinton was campaigning.

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
Vetting of refugees: I posted an article that described the serious difficulties of vetting refugees from war torn countries. The “professionals” (i.e., FBI, Homeland Security, etc.) say this themselves. But that article was completely disregarded, it appears. In fact, I believe there was also a Senate hearing where this exact testimony was also stated.

Think of it like this: In a war-torn country, the country is in shambles – things like data bases, birth certificates, credit reports, identification, licenses – you name it, if the city has been bombed and shelled and burned out, good luck with finding records and information. So how in the world do you “vet” these folks? Not at all or minimally.

The end game: right now we are talking about the potential for “terrorist attacks” with the influx of refugees. And yes, it is a significant concern and needs to be addressed! Then what happens when a substantial number of immigrants come to the US (or European Countries)? Many have no interest in integrating into American (Western) culture.

The birth rates of those in the middle east far surpasses the birth rates of those in the west. By sheer demographics, the USA will be taken over – as is what is happening in Europe. Our democracies will be used against us in local, state and federal government. If we don’t learn from the EU mistakes, we will repeat them to our detriment.

If we now have a London mayor segregating women, is it too hard to imagine a city council with majority Muslim representation enacting Sharia law for a local community? I have no interest in genital mutilation, honor killings, a tax on non-Muslims, the killing of apostates and blasphemers of Mohammad, public calls to prayer (5X per day), etc.

And I don’t care what I am called. The strategy of calling folks “bigots, fascists, racists, Islamophobic, or whatever” doesn’t work anymore in shutting down the conversation. I am weary of that thread bear and worn out strategy. Not interested. And I am not interested in allowing Christian charity to be used against my family, friends, neighbors, community.
 
josh987654321 said:
You bring up Saudi Arabia, which I think is very good, I am in agreement with you on that, but do you realize it was Obama and Clinton who were bending over backwards for Saudi Arabia? As evident by them being voted in on the UN human rights council?

Trump no doubt will have to be very diplomatic, but nevertheless, if you line Trump and Clinton up, you would find Clinton’s policies would have favored Saudi Arabia far more.

So you criticize Trump over Saudi Arabia, but I don’t remember reading these comments from you when Obama was in and Clinton was campaigning.

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh
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Every US president for 50 years has been bending over backwards for Saudi Arabia. That’s what happens when you have the biggest oil reserves in the world. The Bushes have even more friendly relations with the Saudi royal family than what Obama and Clinton do.
 
Thorolfr said:
Here is a report from CNN today:

reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-immigration-syria-lebanon-idUSKBN15D0R3

And then later this morning from the Washington Post:

washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/trump-gives-no-sign-of-backing-down-from-travel-ban/2017/01/29/4ffe900a-e620-11e6-b82f-687d6e6a3e7c_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-banner-main_banledeall-banner-917am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.3daa74315232

So why are persecuted Christians from Syria being denied entry to the US? Does Mr. Trump wants them to go back to Syria where they might be executed?
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:o 😦
 
fin said:
Christian immigrants should be let in.
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They were already being let in. From NPR:

**FACT CHECK: Trump Tweets On Christians, ISIS And Vetting Miss The Bigger Picture
**
It’s true that 99 percent of the 12,587 refugees from Syria admitted in 2016 to the U.S. were Muslim and less than 1 percent were Christian. That would outpace Muslims’ population in Syria, which is 93 percent. But that’s based on 2010 numbers. With the civil war going on and the millions who have been displaced, it’s nearly impossible to tell exactly what the most current percentages are.
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Another possible reason for the lower percentage of Christians being admitted from Syria to the U.S. is because of protection they have received from the Assad regime.
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What’s more, if the implication is that the U.S. is not admitting Christian refugees or that the U.S. is making it difficult, that’s not true at all. In fact, the number of Christian refugees to the U.S. in 2016 was almost equal to that of Muslim refugees — 37,521 to 38,901, according to the Pew Research Center, which is basing its numbers on figures from the Office of Refugee Resettlement at the Department of Health and Human Services.
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npr.org/2017/01/29/512305163/fact-check-trump-tweets-on-christians-isis-and-vetting-miss-the-bigger-picture
 
LeafByNiggle said:
The chief country to list is the US.

*Al Shabaab, the East African affiliate of the al-Qaida terrorist groiup, released a 51-minute video telling “Muslims of the West” that they are not welcome in countries like the United States. Ten minutes into the video, it says the United States has a history of “slavery, segregation, lynching, and Ku Klux Klan, and tomorrow, it will be a land of religious discrimination and concentration camps.”

It then cuts to Trump calling for a temporary but “total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the U.S,” according to SITE Intelligence Group, which studies jihadist propaganda, as reported by the Wall Street Journal. It urges American Muslims to leave the United States and join the group.

Later, on March 24, Newsweek reported that an ISIS video released in the wake of the Brussels attack featured an audio clip from Trump.*
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Per Redstate, there is an ISIS recruiting video that has Bill Clinton and Barack Obama in: redstate.com/streiff/2015/12/20/bill-clinton-barack-obama-donald-trump-isis-recruiting-video-video/

(Warning: I don’t know if there is graphic imagery on that video so be warned)

Trump wasn’t President then, his executive order was not in place then. Clearly, ISIS or other Islamic fundamentalist groups like Al Shabaab will use various American leaders, across the political spectrum, as tools. The immigration/refugee policies whether more hard-line or more moderate, don’t seem to be significant in changing the attitudes of those Muslims who are already extremists.
 
fin said:
Christian immigrants should be let in.
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I agree, Christian and Yazidis and other minorities, as they are most in need, when majority is Muslim immigration, they have gotten something seriously wrong.

When they painted the Arabic letter “N” for Nazarene (Christian) on the doors, that should have lifted them to the front of the queue for immigration and refugee status in coming into our nations, why it was a majority Islam immigration I don’t know and is absolutely not right.

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
josh987654321 said:
I agree, Christian and Yazidis and other minorities, as they are most in need, when majority is Muslim immigration, they have gotten something seriously wrong.

When they painted the Arabic letter “N” for Nazarene (Christian) on the doors, that should have lifted them to the front of the queue for immigration and refugee status in coming into our nations, why it was a majority Islam immigration I don’t know and is absolutely not right.

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh
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Plenty of Muslims have been persecuted as well. Shi’a Muslims have persecuted Sunni Muslims in Iraq so that most of Baghdad’s Sunnis have been forced to flee. Millions have emigrated from Iraq as refugees. And Shi’a Muslims have been attacked by Sunni Muslims, too. Most of the warfare in the Middle East is between Muslims. Many of the attacks being carried out by ISIS which belongs to an especially puritanical variety of Islam are against other kinds of Muslims.
 
Thorolfr said:
They were already being let in. From NPR:

**FACT CHECK: Trump Tweets On Christians, ISIS And Vetting Miss The Bigger Picture
**

npr.org/2017/01/29/512305163/fact-check-trump-tweets-on-christians-isis-and-vetting-miss-the-bigger-picture
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There is article after article, report after report, about the enduring persecution that Christians have been undergoing in Syria. What protection are they getting from Assad? If they are supposed to be getting protection, by all these reports on the persecution, it doesn’t sound like it’s working?!
 
kat07 said:
I haven’t heard this. I don’t think there is a security expert available here to vouch this. But let me try to understand this “ pretzel logic”. …Forgotten in all this is, is the pledge of those who hate us to infiltrate and kill us…
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Don’t you realize that by Trump’s turning this into a war against Muslims* and not more specifically against terrorists he is creating more fertile grounds for more Muslims to hate us? That he is making this world less safe for us all.

Do you understand if you mistreat people and their families enough, including their 81 year old grandmothers and 5 year old children, they may come to hate you?

Jesus came to break these cycles of hate; he suffered pain and death on the cross for that, for our salvation, so we would let go of our hate and sin and come to be with him in heaven.

Trump came to flame the fires of hatred in our nation and around the world so he could gain more power and self-glory (and not so he could solve the problem). It’s a very old and common “divide and conquer” tactic, which thrives on hatred and greater bloodshed.
*Note that the only reason Trump did the ban against “countries (except their Christian populations)” is so it could be less illegal and less likely to be defeated in court (like various sneaky tactics to disenfranchise blacks that don’t mention race per se). He even mentioned before the election he would find a way to ban Muslims without mentioning religion.
 
Thorolfr said:
Plenty of Muslims have been persecuted as well. Shi’a Muslims have persecuted Sunni Muslims in Iraq so that most of Baghdad’s Sunnis have been forced to flee. Millions have emigrated from Iraq as refugees. And Shi’a Muslims have been attacked by Sunni Muslims, too. Most of the warfare in the Middle East is between Muslims. Many of the attacks being carried out by ISIS which belongs to an especially puritanical variety of Islam are against other kinds of Muslims.
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But most of the Middle East is Islamic, so there are surely places where they can flee to in the Middle East, unfortunately not as much for Christians and Yazidis and other minorities.

I think every Christian, Yazidi and other minority group in the Middle East should have been front of the queue. And they are not in danger of becoming so called ‘radicalized’ either.

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
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