Refuting Mike Gendron's tract "Are You Being Deceived?"

[po18guy]

Do you have any particular examples in mind?

Here is a link to a very interesting read - an interview with an exorcist Priest: regnumchristi.org/english/articulos/articulo.phtml?id=14318&se=364&ca=118&te=782

It seems possible… but what would you say about someone like James White (who targets not only Catholics but also Mormons, King James Version-Only Evangelicals, and others)?

The point is to cause division, which opposes our Lord’s prayer that we be one, as He and the Father are One. Every living thing is animated by a spirit. Humans, having rational spirits, make themselves susceptible to the influence of spirits of this world - the fallen angels. Every good that is done on earth is through the working of the Holy Spirit. Submission to the Holy Spirit leads, always and everywhere, to unity. Humble egos are submissive to the Holy Spirit, such as the example of Saint Francis. All division is accomplished by the demon. A large ego is especially subject to the spirit of division. Examples are too numerous to mention, but include all who have split off from the Church for their own “reasons” rather than seek reformation of their hearts, or of the Church, from the inside.

Pride and arrogance rise when one submits to the ego and allows the self to be lead by a spirit of this world. We see that countless times in these forums when someone, whose primary qualification is that they own a bible, arrives and seeks to set the Catholic Church straight. They are firmly convinced that they are absolutely right, and are lead by the Holy Spirit. Yet, they preach division. How can that be? Rather, their ego, interpreting scripture (prohibited by the selfsame bible), has been lead by a spirit into a position of arrogance. They conflict with the greatest Saints that have ever trod this earth, believing that they alone are bringing new revelation to the unwashed. Or correcting the errors of the past. Do they ever stop to think: Am I and my bible really smarter than the Church fathers? Smarter than the great Saints? Smarter even, than the Apostles?

The evil one is a liar and the father of lies. We are at war int he spiritual realm.

 

[Church_Militant]

I found another of Gendron’s articles on this same topic and so, rather than open another thread, I’ll just be adding its refutation to this thread. It’s entitled…
Are Catholics Deceived?

Deception will always be exposed by Truth. Have you ever realized that you could be deceived and not even be aware of it? Those who are deceived will never know it unless they are confronted with the truth. Many go to their grave deceived about the most important issue we all face, and that is, locating the narrow road that leads to eternal life. Who are you trusting to show you the way and the truth to eternal life? What is your source for truth? Is it absolutely trustworthy? Will it protect you from the schemes and lies of the master deceiver? The prophet Jeremiah gave us wise counsel for choosing whom we should trust. He said if you trust in man you will be cursed liked a bush in the parched places of the desert. But if you trust in God you will be blessed. You will be like a tree planted by water always bearing fruit, whose leaves are always green. No worries or fears will come upon you in a year of drought or when the heat comes (Jeremiah 17:5-8).

Okay, this is the same reference we saw at the beginning of this thread, so I won’t waste time with it as 2nd time.

Who will you trust? Many people disregard Jeremiah’s advice and put their trust in religious leaders. Catholics believe that the Pope and the Roman Catholic Church accurately teach what Jesus and His Word reveal. This can be a fatal mistake. Those who disregard the objective truth of the Bible and rely only on the subjective teachings of men leave themselves open to deception. We know God would never deceive anyone because He wants all people to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth (l Timothy 2:3). He gave us His Word so we could know, understand and believe the truth (John 17:17).

As I said before, quoting John Martignoni from the Bible Christian Society, "Catholics have no problem at all with what these verses say. However we do not agree with Gendron’s private interpretation of them. Look for instance at his citation of John 17:17 in context. Notice also that, as with most all Sola Scriptura advocates, he fails to note that the word that Our Lord is speaking of here is verbal, since the New Testament was still many years away from collation and canonization. Nor does Gendron bother to properly cite that the Bible, though certainly truth, is not the only truth that our Lord speaks of. Look at John 14:6] Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.
Or, again, 1st Timothy 3:15. 15] if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.

Would the Pope have a person believe what is not true? Maybe not intentionally, but what if he was deceived by previous popes who were also deceived? How do we know if any of the pope’s teachings or dogmas of the Roman Catholic Church are true?

Of course not. Anyone here know of any of these alleged “previous popes who were also deceived” because I certainly haven’t, and I’ve actually studied the lives of the Popes. Maybe someone should send Gendron a copy of such a text so he can get his facts straight.

Waitaminute! Does this errant allegation mean that Mike Gendron, (by his own logic) is deceived?

How do we know Mike? Well gee…it’s not like we Catholics are stupid enough not to do our own homework (I know I have!) so that we have seen for ourselves the Biblical basis and scriptural truth of Catholic teaching. Gee, Mike, maybe you should spend some real serious time actually reading Catholic Answers or even my own little blog Apocalypsis and prayerfully reassess you religion and ministry.

The only way we can be 100% sure is to do as the Bereans did — check everything with the Scriptures (Acts 17:11). If the apostle Paul’s teaching had to be verified for its truthfulness, it stands to reason we must use the same standard for any religious leader.

Here again, we see the Berean appeal that we’ve answered already so we’ll move on.

Unfortunately the elevation of tradition along with infallible teachings of popes to the same authority as Sacred Scripture has allowed deception to go unabated in the Roman Catholic Church.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/corona_stellarum/Smilies/sSig_yeahright.gif Is this an accurate statement about Catholic teaching? Not really. Sacred Tradition was already “elevated” by Our Lord and the apostles in the New Testament as shown in many articles but especially in my own blog articles like.
Biblical and Jewish Traditional Beliefs About Purgatory
Infallibility & How The Apostles Taught the Study of Sacred Tradition.
Tradition? No way!

Based on this, who can we discern is deceiving and being deceived? It’s not we Catholics is it?

Popes and their teachings constantly change, whereas Jesus and His Word are constant and never change.

Anyone seen any of these constantly changing teachings from the Popes? CA apologist Jim Blackburn addresses this in Can the Church make changes in Church doctrine? So, then, who’s telling the truth here?

 

[Church_Militant]

The Apostle Paul revealed the source of all deception, “The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons” (1 Tim. 4:1).

Haven’t seen any demon spawned teachings at my parish or in any authentic Catholic teachings, have you guys?

You may be familiar with some common deceptions taught by religious leaders today: heaven is a reward for those who live good lives…

Anybody heard this as an authentic Catholic teaching? Me neither. In fact the Catechism specifically says.
**2008 **The merit of man before God in the Christian life arises from the fact that God has freely chosen to associate man with the work of his grace. The fatherly action of God is first on his own initiative, and then follows man’s free acting through his collaboration, so that the merit of good works is to be attributed in the first place to the grace of God, then to the faithful. Man’s merit, moreover, itself is due to God, for his good actions proceed in Christ, from the predispositions and assistance given by the Holy Spirit.

water baptism is necessary for salvation…

Gee Mike, then what is the very clear and specific mandate from Our Lord Himself in Matthew 28:19] Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Why would Our Lord have commanded it if it’s not necessary? Baptism~ Necessary or Not?

purgatory purges and removes sin…

Again, Biblical and Jewish Traditional Beliefs About Purgatory

the sacrifice of the Mass can turn away God’s wrath on sinners

Is Christ sacrificed again at Mass?
Isn’t the sacrifice of Jesus as high priest over and done with?
How do I explain the Mass as a living sacrifice?

God’s grace can be earned and purchased.

Here again Gendron misrepresents Catholic teaching. Can any of you think of a single instance where the Church authentically teaches that God’s grace can be “purchased”? If this is supposed to refer to the sale of Indulgences, then of course Gendron has deceived his readers again by failing to note that this was condemned and corrected at the Council of Trent and the catechism reads as follows on this subject.
**2118 **God’s first commandment condemns the main sins of irreligion: tempting God, in words or deeds, sacrilege, and simony.
**2121 ***Simony *is defined as the buying or selling of spiritual things. To Simon the magician, who wanted to buy the spiritual power he saw at work in the apostles, St. Peter responded: “Your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain God’s gift with money!” Peter thus held to the words of Jesus: “You received without pay, give without pay.” It is impossible to appropriate to oneself spiritual goods and behave toward them as their owner or master, for they have their source in God. One can receive them only from him, without payment.
**2139 **Tempting God in words or deeds, sacrilege, and simony are sins of irreligion forbidden by the first commandment.

Satan has used lies like these to become the greatest “soul winner” in human history.

Well, like a stopped clock that is right at least twice a day, authentic Catholic teaching supports this as does the Word of God. Matthew 7:13] "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14] For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
From the Catechism:**1036 **The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on the subject of hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny. They are at the same time an urgent call to conversion: “Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.”

Since we know neither the day nor the hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, when the single course of our earthly life is completed, we may merit to enter with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, like the wicked and slothful servants, be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, into the outer darkness where “men will weep and gnash their teeth.”

For two thousand years, the master deceiver has perverted the Gospel of salvation by grace. His ferocious wolves, disguised in sheep’s clothing, preach counterfeit gospels that seduce people who are ignorant of God’s word (Matt. 7:15). A counterfeit Christianity is Satan’s ultimate weapon, so he can, one day be worshipped as Christ. His worldwide religious system is taking shape and unfortunately it includes many people in our churches today.

Nothing new here, though I would suggest seeing Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”?

 

[Church_Militant]

All this should come as no surprise to those who know the Scriptures. For this scenario was revealed by Christ and the apostles as a warning of things to come. Jesus announced that right before His second coming the deception will be so convincing that even the elect might be deceived (Matt. 24:4,11,24). The deceit will come from false prophets, false teachers and false Christs, who will snare people from both inside and outside the church. Peter warned people of spiritual deception, “There will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies…and will bring the way of truth into disrepute” (2 Peter 2:1-2).

Again, Catholics have no problem at all with what these passages actually say. We’ve been declaring and addressing it for all those 2,000 years. Of course Gendron neglects to include Matthew 25:31-46 in this context, probably because it conflicts with his theology.

Satan uses deception to prevent people from being saved. God uses the truth to proclaim salvation to all who believe it. Man is either saved by believing God’s truth (Ephesians 1:13) or condemned by believing Satan’s lie. Satan blinds the minds of unbelievers by perverting God’s truth through false religious systems (2 Corinthians 4:4). **Any religion that teaches salvation is obtained through human effort and merit is nullifying the grace of God to its followers. **We are saved by grace, “And if by grace, then it is no longer by works, if it were, grace would no longer be grace” (Romans 11:6).

(Emphasis mine) But here again…is Gendron telling the truth about that the Catholic Church authentically teaches? No…he is not. Let’s look again at CCC paragraph **2008 **The merit of man before God in the Christian life arises from the fact that God has freely chosen to associate man with the work of his grace. The fatherly action of God is first on his own initiative, and then follows man’s free acting through his collaboration, so that the merit of good works is to be attributed in the first place to the grace of God, then to the faithful. Man’s merit, moreover, itself is due to God, for his good actions proceed in Christ, from the predispositions and assistance given by the Holy Spirit.

The truth will set you free. How can we avoid falling prey to these subtle and scheming impostors? Our only defense is to experience the emancipating truth of Scripture (John 8:32). We must know and live the truth. All teaching must be filtered through God’s Word. We are to use the Bible to lovingly correct and rebuke all teaching that contradicts God’s inspired word (2 Tim. 3:16).

(Emphasis mine again) His scripture citations are not problematic. The Catholic Church has been doing that for 2,000 years. Neither is John 8:32 since it is precisely that discovery of and love of scriptural truth that has led so many of us home to the Catholic faith.

However, where exactly does the Bible ever even infer what Gendron says about the filter for all teaching? We’ve discussed this several times and it has been shown that that statement is grossly unscriptural. That being the case, and by Gendron’s own logic, doesn’t that make him an example of the very things that he is attacking here?
“If anyone teaches/preaches something that is not in scripture”
It’s NOT in the Bible, okay?
It’s NOT in the Bible, okay? (Part II)

The Scriptures must become our ultimate authority in all areas of our faith.

And where in the Word of God does it ever lay claim for such authority? The fact is that it never does, though it actually does say in 1st Timothy 3:15] if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.

We must cling to Jesus who came to testify to the truth (John 18:37) and who is the truth (John 14:6). We are to stand firm with the belt of truth buckled around our waists (Eph. 6:14). It is through living the truth that we are sanctified (John 17:17). Does the church where you worship submit to the truth of the Gospel? It is of vital importance to God that you worship Him in truth (John 4:24).

Why yes Mr. Gendron…as a matter of fact it does. http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/corona_stellarum/Smilies/right_onsmall.jpg

 

[Church_Militant]

There are consequences for those who do not seek God’s truth through His Word. Those people who blindly put their faith in religious leaders are most susceptible to deception. Many assume that religious leaders would never seduce anyone with a false plan of salvation. Yet Luke warned, “Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them” (Acts 20:30).

Well we’ve certainly seen this over the history of the Church and that same Church has responded and corrected all along the way, just as it should, and it continues even today. Note though that Gendron attributes this to St. Luke (and he was the actual author of Acts) but it is actually a teaching of St. Paul, the very same person who also teaches the Eucharistic Real Presence in 1st Corinthians 11:23] For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, 24] and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 25] In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26] For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes. 27] Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. 28] Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29] For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself. 30] That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.
And that Baptism is necessary to salvation and sacramentally washes away sins in Acts 22:12] "And one Anani’as, a devout man according to the law, well spoken of by all the Jews who lived there, 13] came to me, and standing by me said to me, Brother Saul, receive your sight.' And in that very hour I received my sight and saw him. **14**] And he said, The God of our fathers appointed you to know his will, to see the Just One and to hear a voice from his mouth; 15] for you will be a witness for him to all men of what you have seen and heard. 16] And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’

Did you just miss all this Mike, or do you choose to ignore it because it contradicts your own theology and anti-Catholic propaganda? If, as we all profess, truth is objective, the what’s up with this stuff?

Other people choose not to let truth interfere with their lives. They turn away from it and listen to teachers who say what their itching ears want to hear (2 Tim. 4:2-4). Truth demands a response. The choice is to believe it and conform, or reject it and go our stubborn way.

uch: Sorry Mike, but you just straight up indicted yourself because you are well aware that I and many other Catholics have refuted and exposed your errors and misinformation about the Gospel and authentic Catholic teachings and yet you persist. We are all praying for you.

 

[Church_Militant]

There are people who are devoted to God, but do not know Him personally because religious leaders conceal the source and authority of truth.

How much more personally can one get to know Our Lord Jesus Christ than to receive his body, blood, soul, and divinity in the intimate miracle of the Eucharist? I know Him and I love and adore Him with all that I am. Every moment of every day I seek to take up my cross and follow him, and I know a lot of other Catholics who are the same way.

People who have been indoctrinated with false teaching have difficulty believing the truth. They are always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth (2 Tim. 3:7). Acknowledging the truth requires a “turning away” from all unbiblical doctrines.

(Emphasis mine again) Well Mike, if what you say is true, and in light of your self indictment above, then I would have to say that you need to take your own advice very seriously, since (as you have rightly implied again and again) you imperil your own soul.

It was a lack of faith in God’s purpose, plan and word that separated Adam and Eve and their offspring from God. They chose to put their faith in the deceiver, which brought spiritual and physical death to us all. How divine for God to use the very instrument that separated us from Him–faith, to restore us back to Him. It is now through faith in God that we receive His gift of spiritual and eternal life (Ephesians 2:8).

Yet, as I have pointed out many times, this Sola Fide doctrine is a new wind of doctrine of modern men. Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”?

For additional refutations of SF I can suggest Sola Fide or Biblical contradiction?

The object of our faith determines who we are — a child of the devil (John 8:43-45) or a child of God (John 1:12); how we live — as slaves to sin, or slaves to righteousness (Romans 6:16-18); and how we will spend eternity — under the wrath of God or in his loving presence (John 3:36). Faith in anyone other than Jesus, and in anything other than His Word will allow deception to creep into our lives. Those who follow the traditions, opinions and philosophies of men and reject Christ and His Word will be condemned on the last day (John 12:48). By contrast how wonderful are the words of Christ that those who believe in Him shall not perish but have eternal life (John 3:16).

I can say for certain that here again you have indicted yourself based upon the many times that I and other Catholics have scripturally reproved, refuted, and corrected you. Sadly, so far you have hardened your heart and so I beseech you to respond and repent with the Word of God from the book of Hebrews chapter 3:8] do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
on the day of testing in the wilderness,
9] where your fathers put me to the test
and saw my works for forty years.
10] Therefore I was provoked with that generation,
and said, They always go astray in their hearts; they have not known my ways.' **11**] As I swore in my wrath, They shall never enter my rest.’"
12] Take care, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God.
13] But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.
14] For we share in Christ, if only we hold our first confidence firm to the end,
15] while it is said, “Today, when you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”
And further from Hebrews 4:5] And again in this place he said, "They shall never enter my rest."6] Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience, 7] again he sets a certain day, “Today,” saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted, “Today, when you hear his voice,do not harden your hearts.”

 

[Church_Militant]

The rest is just the same ending that his other tract has only without the chart, so since I dealt with that before in this thread, there’s no point in doing so again, but I will cover his last statement again, but remind Mike and all his followers of his self-indictment above, and the need for their repentance.

As you can see these two teachings directly oppose one another. You must make the choice as to which is true and which is deception. Your choice will determine your eternal destiny.

(Emphasis mine again) You said it yourself Mike. I urge all of you who are followers of Mike Gendron to take this to heart, and, based on the fact that he has been shown to be deceiving you not only about authentic Catholic teachings, but about the Word of God itself to prayerfully and carefully reconsider following his teachings or in any way supporting his ministry, knowing that you will account to God for what you are doing. We all will, but as it says in Joshua 24: 15] And if you be unwilling to serve the LORD, choose this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathers served in the region beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell; ** but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD**." (Again, emphasis mine.)

 

[BobCatholic]

I have a question.

Why is it Mike’s purpose in life to tear down the Catholic Church, than to build the Kingdom of God?

It’s just all sad.

He capitalizes on anti-Catholic bigotry and makes a lot of money off of it.

If he were really trying to build the kingdom of God he’d be taking on the Atheists and Muslims head on. Not attacking fellow Christians.

 

[Zooey]

I have a question.

Why is it Mike’s purpose in life to tear down the Catholic Church, than to build the Kingdom of God?

It’s just all sad.

:sad_yes:

 

[ConstantineTG]

When one wants to find the truth, the Bible isn’t the only source. Indeed as many of today’s denominations have shown, it can be interpreted many different ways. It is one important way but not the only way. We should also look at the life of the Church, the teachings of our Fathers, Confessors, Saints, the life of our Martyrs. These have been proven over time to be true. We should look at what we have today and compare it with what he had in the past. There must be a continuity in faith. As Saint Paul said, if teachers teach a Jesus other than the one they have taught, then that is a false teacher. And how would we know? Learn from the Fathers.

 

[Trebor135]

When one wants to find the truth, the Bible isn’t the only source. Indeed as many of today’s denominations have shown, it can be interpreted many different ways. It is one important way but not the only way. We should also look at the life of the Church, the teachings of our Fathers, Confessors, Saints, the life of our Martyrs. These have been proven over time to be true. We should look at what we have today and compare it with what he had in the past. There must be a continuity in faith. As Saint Paul said, if teachers teach a Jesus other than the one they have taught, then that is a false teacher. And how would we know? Learn from the Fathers.

Amen.

The complete lack of interest in Christian history on the part of so many Protestants would have catastrophic consequences if adopted by judges. Legal precedents would carry no weight at all; to paraphrase Martin Luther, there would be more law-sects than there would be heads. Chaos would result in the courtroom, and no defendant could ever hope for a fair trial.

 

[Church_Militant]

When one wants to find the truth, the Bible isn’t the only source. Indeed as many of today’s denominations have shown, it can be interpreted many different ways. It is one important way but not the only way. We should also look at the life of the Church, the teachings of our Fathers, Confessors, Saints, the life of our Martyrs. These have been proven over time to be true. We should look at what we have today and compare it with what he had in the past. There must be a continuity in faith. As Saint Paul said, if teachers teach a Jesus other than the one they have taught, then that is a false teacher. And how would we know? Learn from the Fathers.

Amen.

The complete lack of interest in Christian history on the part of so many Protestants would have catastrophic consequences if adopted by judges. Legal precedents would carry no weight at all; to paraphrase Martin Luther, there would be more law-sects than there would be heads. Chaos would result in the courtroom, and no defendant could ever hope for a fair trial.

Christian history is generally not something that many n-Cs apply themselves to. Mostly nothing older than the Reformation or the infamous Borgia Popes (in an attempt to indict the Catholic Church with them.)

The ECF is just largely ignored. Catholic First Information Center, Church Fathers Index

Many a-Cs have no deeper interest in history other than Foxe’s Book of Martyrswhich is nothing like complete or even factually accurate.One member here who has examined it more closely writes: Biblical Evidence for Catholicism: Refutation of the Historical

Also seeRefutation of Foxe’s Book of Martyrs