Refuting Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, and Other Protestant Doctrines

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Brian,
Take note! Once refuted, they never have any answers. If a protestant looks to History, they will always fall short. “To be steeped in History is to cease to be protestant”. Plain Me opened up those can of worms.
 
Old_Scholar said:
Would you mind listing the writings of Irenæus that talk about Apostolic Succession and Papal Supremacy? I don’t believe you can find them. There are no Apostles now; they died with the last Apostle.
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Yet again, you are picking and choosing your sources in an attempt to have the exception establish the rule. History notes that Irenaeus did not found the church. Also, you apparently reject the words of the bible which establish Apostolic succession. Likewise, you reject 1,975 years of consistent Christian practice. My brother, you have been lead far, far astray by the ERROR of non-biblical, man-made sola scriptura. This is said out of charity toward a brother in Christ.
 
Catholic_Dude said:
I don’t have the energy at the moment to look them up, but I’m sure others around here do. If not, go to the Catholic.com Library and look on the Papacy list, I’m sure the quotes are there.

I’ve see the quotes themselves, in the context, from St Irenaeus’ book Against Heresies.
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Typical!
 
Chaldean_Rite said:
21 REASONS TO REJECT SOLA SCRIPTURA

Read this. Once you defeat SS, everything else follows.
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I checked your site and the very first reason you gave completely demolishes the Roman Catholic Church:
  1. The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura is not taught anywhere in the Bible
There goes all the ‘traditions’ about the Pope, Mary, Purgatory, and all the other false doctrines not taught in the Bible. You’re saying that if it isn’t in the Bible, then it isn’t true. I certainly agree with that.

You however do not mention that the Scripture itself tells us that it is sufficient for all things…

That’s where I quit reading—no use going any further!
 
Chaldean_Rite said:
ur a “non-Protestant” eh? Do you mind explaining why you are not a protestant?
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Because I belong to the only church Christ ever started, the one He is the Head of and we have never protested anything but false teachings.
 
Randy_Carson said:
Irenaeus

“It is possible, then, for everyone in every church, who may wish to know the truth, to contemplate the tradition of the apostles which has been made known to us throughout the whole world. And we are in a position to enumerate those who were instituted bishops by the apostles and their successors down to our own times, men who neither knew nor taught anything like what these heretics rave about” (*Against Heresies *3:3:1 [A.D. 189]).

“But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the successions of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul—that church which has the tradition and the faith with which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. For with this Church, because of its superior origin, all churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world. And it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition” (ibid., 3:3:2).

“The blessed apostles [Peter and Paul], having founded and built up the church [of Rome], they handed over the office of the episcopate to Linus. Paul makes mention of this Linus in the epistle to Timothy [2 Tim. 4:21]. To him succeeded Anencletus, and after him, in the third place from the apostles, Clement was chosen for the episcopate. He had seen the blessed apostles and was acquainted with them. It might be said that he still heard the echoes of the preaching of the apostles and had their traditions before his eyes. And not only he, for there were many still remaining who had been instructed by the apostles. In the time of Clement, no small dissension having arisen among the brethren in Corinth, the Church in Rome sent a very strong letter to the Corinthians, exhorting them to peace and renewing their faith. . . To this Clement, Evaristus succeeded. . . and now, in the twelfth place after the apostles, the lot of the episcopate [of Rome] has fallen to Eleutherus. In this order, and by the teaching of the apostles handed down in the Church, the preaching of the truth has come down to us” (ibid., 3:3:3).

“Polycarp also was not only instructed by apostles, and conversed with many who had seen Christ, but was also, by apostles in Asia, appointed bishop of the church in Smyrna, whom I also saw in my early youth, for he tarried [on earth] a very long time, and, when a very old man, gloriously and most nobly suffering martyrdom, departed this life, having always taught the things which he had learned from the apostles, and which the Church has handed down, and which alone are true. To these things all the Asiatic churches testify, as do also those men who have succeeded Polycarp down to the present time” (ibid., 3:3:4).

“Since therefore we have such proofs, it is not necessary to seek the truth among others which it is easy to obtain from the Church; since the apostles, like a rich man [depositing his money] in a bank, lodged in her hands most copiously all things pertaining to the truth, so that every man, whosoever will, can draw from her the water of life. . . . For how stands the case? Suppose there arise a dispute relative to some important question among us, should we not have recourse to the most ancient churches with which the apostles held constant conversation, and learn from them what is certain and clear in regard to the present question?” (ibid., 3:4:1).

“*t is incumbent to obey the presbyters who are in the Church—those who, as I have shown, possess the succession from the apostles; those who, together with the succession of the episcopate, have received the infallible charism of truth, according to the good pleasure of the Father. But [it is also incumbent] to hold in suspicion others who depart from the primitive succession, and assemble themselves together in any place whatsoever, either as heretics of perverse minds, or as schismatics puffed up and self-pleasing, or again as hypocrites, acting thus for the sake of lucre and vainglory. For all these have fallen from the truth” (ibid., 4:26:2).

“The true knowledge is the doctrine of the apostles, and the ancient organization of the Church throughout the whole world, and the manifestation of the body of Christ according to the succession of bishops, by which succession the bishops have handed down the Church which is found everywhere” (ibid., 4:33:8). *

In Irenæus’ day, this was pretty much true but any “successors” of the Apostles did not receive their special powers. How many do you know that have raised the dead and performed the same type miracles? There is no one infallible today. That all died with the last of the 12.
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po18guy said:
Here is a link for a very quick, Protestant-sponsored answer to “Faith alone”

biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=faith%20alone&version1=31&searchtype=all

And, for the KJV fans:

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James%202:24;&version=9;
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Faith always produces works. Works doesn’t produce faith. James is telling us that if faith doesn’t produce works, then faith is dead. There is no mystery here. We are told much more specifically the truth; there is nothing you can do that will save you:

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
 
Old_Scholar said:
Typical!
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:confused: Did I lie? Did I mislead? No and no.
I didn’t have a chance to dig up the quotes, but I was sure someone around here could…and very shortly after I posted another Catholic stepped up and posted the quotes.
 
Catholic_Dude said:
:confused: Did I lie? Did I mislead? No and no.
I didn’t have a chance to dig up the quotes, but I was sure someone around here could…and very shortly after I posted another Catholic stepped up and posted the quotes.
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But they didn’t support your assertions…
 
Chaldean_Rite said:
Sure. Which church is that?
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The only one true church. If you are a believer in Christ and what He taught through the Apostles, then you are a member of the body of Christ’s Church. Christ is the Head. There is no other.
 
Chaldean_Rite said:
Sure. Which church is that?
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It is obvious that he belongs to the Catholic Church since he claims to belong to the Church Jesus founded. That would seem to eliminate him belonging to any of the tens of thousands of denominations that have sprung up since some men rejected Christ Church some 500 years ago
 
estesbob said:
It is obvious that he belongs to the Catholic Church since he claims to belong to the Church Jesus founded. That would seem to eliminate him belonging to any of the tens of thousands of denominations that have sprung up since some men rejected Christ Church some 500 years ago
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Amen. Ths only logical conclusion is he must desire to be Catholic or is Catholic since this is the only Church that fits the description of what the True Church is.
 
Old_Scholar said:
You however do not mention that the Scripture itself tells us that it is sufficient for all things…

That’s where I quit reading—no use going any further!
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Except defining itself, for which it needed an infallible authority…
 
Old_Scholar said:
Faith always produces works. Works doesn’t produce faith. James is telling us that if faith doesn’t produce works, then faith is dead. There is no mystery here. We are told much more specifically the truth; there is nothing you can do that will save you:

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
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Correct. Since this is a thread about refuting sola fide, I used the scriptures to do so.
 
Old_Scholar said:
In Irenæus’ day, this was pretty much true but any “successors” of the Apostles did not receive their special powers. How many do you know that have raised the dead and performed the same type miracles? There is no one infallible today. That all died with the last of the 12.
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Where does the bible tell you this?
 
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