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twinc
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were Jesus and his apostles and disciples as jews familiar with the doctrine of reincarnation.Notice the reply here and elsewhere "Who do men say I am - the reply was ? - any comments - twinc
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prettylarge
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I doubt it. At the time, reincarnation was a belief in India and just spreading to areas such as China. I don’t think that those ideas would have been able to make their way to the Middle East at the time. Also, most of the people that Jesus and the apostles interacted with were Jews.
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twinc
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- twinc
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Tantum_ergo
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The idea that a man might be punished for the sins of a parent or for his own (later) ones is not necessarily ‘karma’. The scribes never insinuated that this man was being punished for sins commited in a prior life, but rather that perhaps his father or mother had committed sin, or that the man himself was simply particularly evil from birth and was bound to sin.
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Siddhartha
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“Karma” means simply “action”. “Vipaka” means “result of action”. The New Testament speaks about what you sow, so shall you reap; which is another way of saying “your actions lead to results”, or “karma-vipaka”.
Jesus did speak about John the Baptist being Elijah returned, but Christian tradition interprets this symbolically, or metaphorically.
On the other hand, Hasidic Jews do teach that reincarnation is a biblical teaching, though it seems likely that the Hasidic Jews may have been influenced by post-biblical teachings.
On the other other hand, the resurrected body will not be identical to the body you have now, so you could speak of the resurrected body as a special type of reincarnation body. (“Reincarnation” simply means “re-em-body-ment”.)
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twinc
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and the mystery and majestry is that Jesus as the second Adam is the first Adam returning to undo the karma and redeem Himself and all mankind by paying the price karma warranted - btw Adam indeed was the son of God for he had no other father or mother - see Lk.3:38 - btw guess who the second Eve was and who Lazarus the beloved disciple was etc - twinc
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thistle
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You are babbling again!
By the way Lazarus was NOT the beloved disciple. It was John.
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twinc
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btw John was an Apostle,Lazarus was a disciple and the disciple that Jesus loved - twinc
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Siddhartha
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seagal
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Ah, but did they call themselves apostles then, or was that name given to them later?
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twinc
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No - it was then and now -btw not many know but Paul was an Apostle without being a disciple etc - twinc
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bpbasilphx
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And you actually think this proves that they were familiar with the idea of reincarnation?
Please elucidate.
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twinc
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you must be joking - you cant be serious - you must be having me on so perhaps somebody else might just kindly oblige - twinc
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Mark77
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The answer was; "And they said, “Some say John the Baptist, others say Eli’jah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.
As usual, you are so far off the Truth that it is comical!
Jesus asked the Apostles “Who do men say I am” to show how confused we are all are & to give the authority to teach & interpret the teachings of Jesus Christ, our Lord & Savior, & Sacred Scripture to Peter & his successors alone.
If Jesus didn’t pass on that authority, we would all be teaching incredibly ignorant ideas like reincarnation & karma & Oprah’s New Age drivel.
You need to get off the fence and be honest! You are not Catholic.
Either go “ALL IN” for Jesus or be honest & say you are Agnostic or Atheist, at least then you could have some credibility!!!
Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora pro Nobis Peccatoribus!
mark
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geometer
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Well, the scripture was quoted, so we can see that the answer given was what Jesus was and not who he was.
It was a good answer though, certainly more important information than simply who he was.
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Mintaka
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Some Greek philosophers did believe in reincarnation of a sort. It may or may not have been an idea from India, but it was certainly around. I don’t know that they believed in any sort of karma or deserts affecting it.
In St. Gregory of Nyssa’s dialogue On the Soul and the Resurrection, which records what his sister St. Macrina said on her deathbed, St. Macrina argues very strongly against reincarnation and various schemes of arranging it. She points out that, if being bad gets you turned into something like a slug, and lifetimes as a slug help you get turned into a human as a reward, it’s clear that being a slug is a much more virtuous state than humanity, and that it’s not fair to drive souls out of the goodness and light of slughood and into the evils of being anything higher.
She also talked about how the existence of lifelike Greco-Roman robot toys helps prove the existence of the Creator. Nothing about pirates, ninjas, or dinosaurs as yet.
In St. Gregory of Nyssa’s dialogue On the Soul and the Resurrection, which records what his sister St. Macrina said on her deathbed, St. Macrina argues very strongly against reincarnation and various schemes of arranging it. She points out that, if being bad gets you turned into something like a slug, and lifetimes as a slug help you get turned into a human as a reward, it’s clear that being a slug is a much more virtuous state than humanity, and that it’s not fair to drive souls out of the goodness and light of slughood and into the evils of being anything higher.
She also talked about how the existence of lifelike Greco-Roman robot toys helps prove the existence of the Creator. Nothing about pirates, ninjas, or dinosaurs as yet.
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thistle
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The apostles were the original disciples. John was the beloved disciple.
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anon5216
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But this response does not in any way contradict the concept of reincarnation.
The context clearly shows the jews of the time believed in reincarnation.
Jesus’ response implies only that certain beliefs about his prior physical identity were either incorrect or irrelevant.
Jesus says absolutely nothing to contradict the then held jewish belief that “Eli’jah, and others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets” might be reborn in another physical body.
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twinc
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twinc
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some folk dont half go off at tangents and name calling and insults etc - when in fact before the resurrection as the way to heaven,reincarnation was accepted and was only centuries later at it seems the council of Constantinople finally rejected - twinc
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