Rejecting the Motu Proprio....at Steubenville?

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jmcrae said:
No; they should have gone to whoever is their direct superior, and then let him take it up the chain of command, instead of bypassing the chain of command with a petition.
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What is the “chain of command” (interesting use of a military term) here, and in what way did they bypass it?
 
VociMike said:
What is the “chain of command” (interesting use of a military term) here, and in what way did they bypass it?
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The military got its command structure from us. 🙂

Since the problem is solved, it’s a purely academic question, at this point (they can go to the Latin Mass at their parish church, and rides are being made available for those who want to do that) - in the Church, we don’t immediately go to the person in highest authority with our complaint. We go first to the person directly above us (teacher, sponsor, parent, deacon, assistant pastor) who probably would have told them, “oh - well, they already have the Latin Mass at the parish church; maybe you would like to organize a bus to go there?” instead of going straight to the Superior General (over the heads of not only their teachers but also their priests) with a petition demanding something that apparently they already had, but weren’t aware that they had.

In our Diocese it is considered inappropriate to send petitions to the Bishop; he says, I will throw out all petitions without looking at them; ask your parish priest, and then he will ask me - we do not write petitions in our Church.

I assume this is the norm for the whole Church.
 
I wish Pope Benedcit XVI would fly straight to Steubenville and celebrate TLM.

If he asked any of the Franciscans at Steubenville to help him would they?
 
jmcrae said:
The military got its command structure from us. 🙂

Since the problem is solved, it’s a purely academic question, at this point (they can go to the Latin Mass at their parish church, and rides are being made available for those who want to do that) - in the Church, we don’t immediately go to the person in highest authority with our complaint. We go first to the person directly above us (teacher, sponsor, parent, deacon, assistant pastor) who probably would have told them, “oh - well, they already have the Latin Mass at the parish church; maybe you would like to organize a bus to go there?” instead of going straight to the Superior General (over the heads of not only their teachers but also their priests) with a petition demanding something that apparently they already had, but weren’t aware that they had.

In our Diocese it is considered inappropriate to send petitions to the Bishop; he says, I will throw out all petitions without looking at them; ask your parish priest, and then he will ask me - we do not write petitions in our Church.

I assume this is the norm for the whole Church.
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what you said? ditto.
 
Jerry-Jet said:
I wish Pope Benedcit XVI would fly straight to Steubenville and celebrate TLM.

If he asked any of the Franciscans at Steubenville to help him would they?
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My guess is that all of them would since they report up to him.

They do not report up to their students or employees.
 
jmcrae said:
No; they should have gone to whoever is their direct superior, and then let him take it up the chain of command, instead of bypassing the chain of command with a petition.
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Do you mean one of the friars there on campus - but not one who makes decisions regarding the liturgy? I would suspect all the friar could do is give you directions to the office in question. “Second building on the left, room 204”. Something like that.

Good grief again! These students were students of the campus - they desired to attend the extraordinary form of the mass on campus, and they went to the campus people in charge of the liturgy on campus. What in the world is so wrong with that? They didn’t present the petition to the bishop or the pope for crying out loud, they went to the nearest authority!!! It’s where I’d have gone if I was them!

http://bestsmileys.com/frustrated/8.gif

DustinsDad
 
jmcrae said:
VociMike What is the “chain of command” …and in what way did they bypass it?
jmcrae: …Since the problem is solved, it’s a purely academic question, at this point.
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Could you academically answer it? I’m curious as to where you think they should have gone to make the request.

DustinsDad
 
First they tell us they’ll be no interest in the Latin Mass. Then they tell us it’s wrong to petition for it.

Well, I guess if everyone believes it’s wrong to petition for it, then, yes, there’ll be no visible interest in the Latin Mass. Duhh.
 
BobP123 said:
First they tell us they’ll be no interest in the Latin Mass. Then they tell us it’s wrong to petition for it.

Well, I guess if everyone believes it’s wrong to petition for it, then, yes, there’ll be no visible interest in the Latin Mass. Duhh.
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👍 You got it! :eek:
 
jmcrae said:
The military got its command structure from us. 🙂

Since the problem is solved, it’s a purely academic question, at this point (they can go to the Latin Mass at their parish church, and rides are being made available for those who want to do that) - in the Church, we don’t immediately go to the person in highest authority with our complaint. We go first to the person directly above us (teacher, sponsor, parent, deacon, assistant pastor) who probably would have told them, “oh - well, they already have the Latin Mass at the parish church; maybe you would like to organize a bus to go there?” instead of going straight to the Superior General (over the heads of not only their teachers but also their priests) with a petition demanding something that apparently they already had, but weren’t aware that they had.

In our Diocese it is considered inappropriate to send petitions to the Bishop; he says, I will throw out all petitions without looking at them; ask your parish priest, and then he will ask me - we do not write petitions in our Church.

I assume this is the norm for the whole Church.
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As a student in a Post Secondary Institution I can attest that this “chain of command” is fictious. As customers (which students are) they have THE RIGHT to approach anyone in the Administration.

Just as a citizen has the right to write a letter to the President, Prime Minister, so does the students have the RIGHT to go to anyone in the Administration to present the petition.

Universities are not Military Schools so this Macho authority that people like to lord over others says more about the people posting than about the thread.
 
VociMike said:
What is the “chain of command” (interesting use of a military term) here, and in what way did they bypass it?
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There is no chain of command for the students to obey by. Its just something people like to throw around.
 
BobP123 said:
I thought you might like that.

But, no, you won’t stop it. The TLM is here to stay, just a matter of where it’s said. It’ll find a home, it always has. Better than gold.
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I’m not Catharina. The disdain for petitions is more about keeping the Extrordinary Form of the Mass from happening.
 
jmcrae said:
Since the problem is solved, it’s a purely academic question, at this point (they can go to the Latin Mass at their parish church, and rides are being made available for those who want to do that) - in the Church, we don’t immediately go to the person in highest authority with our complaint.
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Why are people assuming this request was a complaint? I can’t help but feel that several people on this thread are making a judgment about what this “petition” was and how it was worded, and so are speaking against it. But, how can we or they actually know how the document was worded, and in what spirit? It seems some are inferring that a petition must be a demand using a list of signatures as a form of political force. I don’t think we can make that assumption fairly, and it may very well have been nothing of the sort.
We go first to the person directly above us (teacher, sponsor, parent, deacon, assistant pastor) who probably would have told them, “oh - well, they already have the Latin Mass at the parish church; maybe you would like to organize a bus to go there?” instead of going straight to the Superior General (over the heads of not only their teachers but also their priests) with a petition demanding something that apparently they already had, but weren’t aware that they had.
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Again, how do you know that they were demanding something? I have read absolutely nothing so far which can indicate the tone of the request, or whether it was a political form of petition, or merely a submitted list of interested parties offered up so that the adminstration and faculty would know whether they wished to respond in a certain way or not. I would generally assume the good faith of the request unless we had something concrete to suggest otherwise.

And why does it make any difference that the parish Church already has the Latin Mass? Don’t all the local Churches have the Novus Ordo, and yet it sounds like FUS has several of those. Why did they not just offer bussing to the local Churches for all of their Masses?

Patrick
 
Cathryn said:
I’m not Catharina. The disdain for petitions is more about keeping the Extrordinary Form of the Mass from happening.
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Yikes. :doh2: Did you read all the way to the end of the blog?

They already have a TLM they can go to, that takes place at their parish church. So, they don’t need to have one in the school gym.

I don’t know why any devotee of the TLM would even want it to take place in a gym, anyway. 🤷
 
jmcrae said:
Yikes. :doh2: Did you read all the way to the end of the blog?

They already have a TLM they can go to, that takes place at their parish church. So, they don’t need to have one in the school gym.

I don’t know why any devotee of the TLM would even want it to take place in a gym, anyway. 🤷
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Just because there is one at a parish church doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be able to have one on campus. If there are three Ordinary Form Masses provided on campus, why not allow one Extraordinary Form Mass. Student s for the other Masses are not sent off campus to the local parishes. You would think they would have a chapel of some sort as a Catholic University, why would it be in the gym? :confused:
 
Cathryn said:
You would think they would have a chapel of some sort as a Catholic University, why would it be in the gym? :confused:
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I don’t know, but any time I have seen video or photographs of Mass at FSU, it is taking place in a gym; not in a chapel. Perhaps they don’t have the money to build one, or they have one but it’s too small to accomodate all of the students, but any time you see their Mass on video, it’s in a gym.
 
jmcrae said:
I don’t know, but any time I have seen video or photographs of Mass at FSU, it is taking place in a gym; not in a chapel. Perhaps they don’t have the money to build one, or they have one but it’s too small to accomodate all of the students, but any time you see their Mass on video, it’s in a gym.
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franciscan.edu/home2/Content/Campuslife/chapel/main.aspx?id=173

Here is one that seats 300. That should be the place to have it, not the gym.
 
Cathryn said:
Just because there is one at a parish church doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be able to have one on campus. If there are three Ordinary Form Masses provided on campus, why not allow one Extraordinary Form Mass. Student s for the other Masses are not sent off campus to the local parishes. You would think they would have a chapel of some sort as a Catholic University, why would it be in the gym? :confused:
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There are 3 masses every week day, a couple on saturday, and then 4 on sunday. The reason they have this many on sunday is because any less, and the mass crowd would be flooding way outside. The problem with everything is the chapel is usually fine, but its on the small side. On parent weekends and stuff like that, we have to have mass in the gym because 1500-2000+ people show up for them. You hardly have any room to kneel and on the gym floor its not comfortable. The head of the music ministry for the mass tells us, “You may sit during communion if you wish.” The whole problem with TLM here isn’t that people are against it. I bet if they had it in the chapel it would be more packed that most masses are. The gym isn’t good at all for mass, and its one of the worst places (I don’t mind occasionaly going there but its definately not a “chapel”.) I don’t have a problem with what is going on. I am a Franciscan Student and I haven’t even heard anything about this ever brought up, and until one of my friends IMed me on AIM and told me about it, I had no idea. Plus St. Peter parish isn’t that far away and most of the people here on campus could walk or possible find a ride if they didn’t have a vehicle already (by the way, there are alot of vehicles on campus, so I am sure, everyone knows someone who can drive them.) (Directed towards Cathryn)

(For everyone)
I am not defending our friars here or anyone involved with saying no to the petition (TLM would be nice on campus), but I am very frustrated at everyone jumping to the worst conclusion on a rumor. It’s just total gossip. This reminds me of the high school **** that went on everyday, where someone said something, and someone got mad and did something else, and contraversy was stirred over nothing. Mass is Mass no matter what form. If people can’t be spiritualy satisfied by the Jesus at NO (I do want a TLM sometime, don’t get me wrong), then something is wrong. I personally don’t have a problem with any of the masses here. Yea, I am not used to the charismatic (refering to praise and worship/ not all charismatic is about praise and worship), but the Jesus is here, the homilies are nice and we can come together as a community to worship our lord.

I appologize if I offend anyone, but there are worse things in the world than not having TLM on campus.
 
Boy things sure get twisted. Someone asked me why I or anyone would want the Traditional Mass in a college gym. I asked why would it be in a gym, don’t they have a chapel. He said the masses he saw pictures of were in some sort of gym, so he assumed they didn’t have a chapel, and was wondering why I would want a traditional Mass in a gym. I found the photos of a chapel on campus and said that there was a chapel that holds 300. There was no reason to have a traditional Mass in gym. There was no disrespect to the use of the gym for the large crowds attending NO Masses. I agree the Masses are equal and valid. That is not the issue here.
 
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