Relationship advice

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I need to grow some cojones…
To stand up to friends who would judge you in that manner. Those aren’t friends. I understand peer pressure when you are young. But you are 30.

I was serious about it being possible that you are making up a story in your head about what you think other people think. we ALL do that-- tell ourselves stories that are not based in fact.

I mean, has anyone actually TOLD you they expect something like that? Has anyone said something to you about her? Or is this an expectation you have placed on yourself?
 
So what I’m understanding from some of you is that looks really are important. It’s not enough to just love someone for who they are as a person.

I guess I could have taken that path the moment I met her and never would have gotten to know how beautiful she is on the inside.That’s what most guys do. Apparently I’m less mature and a worse for giving her inner beauty a chance.

Because of her looks she’s only had one boyfriend before and he emotionally and physically abused her.

I guess it’s better for her to settle for undesirable men or be alone than for me to show her love even if I’m not super attracted to her. I never said I wasn’t attracted to her at all because I am.

Honestly, I don’t buy any of that or the judgement passed on me here. I’m proud of myself for wanting to try and love someone for who they are on the inside. Posting my raw honest feelings here helped me to realize that.

Instead of asking here, I should have just gone straight to God. I think He would encourage me to go after true love, look past lust and idolatry and love this woman for the true beauty that’s inside. In that way I would find her always beautiful in every way.*
Yeah. I sort of see how you got from there to here. But it wasn’t a judgement I was trying to frame. It was a reality of how things work. If looks are important to you you either need to find someone with some or find a way to make them not important. That’s about it. So either you find a way to go deeper or you let her find someone else who will.

What I was not saying was that people should find someone they think looks hot. And I wasn’t saying you were out of line for wanting that. These are your priorities. These are things that bother you. So if it does then you have to deal with that in 1 of the 2 ways. You have to do 1 of the things already spelled out.

I don’t know if you were expecting anyone to just say, “Nah. Just look the other way when she comes in the room.” Because that’s not going to work.

That’s why you need to dig deeper. Either into the relationship or yourself. You need to get to a place where you forget all about her face. And instead see only a beautiful aura of good.

Or something.

Anyway. I hope you understand better where my shots were aimed.

Peace.

-Trident
 
So what I’m understanding from some of you is that looks really are important. It’s not enough to just love someone for who they are as a person.
It is NOT what the person looks like, it is the fact that you love this person so much they are the most beautiful person to you.
I guess I could have taken that path the moment I met her and never would have gotten to know how beautiful she is on the inside.That’s what most guys do. Apparently I’m less mature and a worse for giving her inner beauty a chance.
Or perhaps you are getting cold feet and using her outside looks as an excuse to not commit. Because as you say, most men never give a women they think is ugly a chance. At some point you though she was pretty
Because of her looks she’s only had one boyfriend before and he emotionally and physically abused her. .
Give me a break. A lot of women who are considered gorgeous by movie star standards are physically abused by men. Any man who is low enough to hit a women doesn’t first stop and evaluate her looks
I guess it’s better for her to settle for undesirable men or be alone than for me to show her love even if I’m not super attracted to her…
No the best this woman could do is God’s will whether that is marriage or celibacy. But one thing is for sure, it is not God’s will for her to marry a man who is concerned she is not hot enough
I’m proud of myself for wanting to try and love someone for who they are on the inside. Posting my raw honest feelings here helped me to realize that.
True but you still have a lot of growth to do in that area
Instead of asking here, I should have just gone straight to God. I think He would encourage me to go after true love, look past lust and idolatry and love this woman for the true beauty that’s inside. In that way I would find her always beautiful in every way.*
Umm… yes I agree that God will help you be a more genuine person but…I think the focus should be on becoming the man God wants you to be. After all, if this is not the girl for you to marry, you still should learn not to value outside beauty
 
To stand up to friends who would judge you in that manner. Those aren’t friends. I understand peer pressure when you are young. But you are 30.

I was serious about it being possible that you are making up a story in your head about what you think other people think. we ALL do that-- tell ourselves stories that are not based in fact.

I mean, has anyone actually TOLD you they expect something like that? Has anyone said something to you about her? Or is this an expectation you have placed on yourself?
I think I misunderstood you. If I did forgive me brother. I’m sure everyone here is just trying to be honest with me and help, I just felt judged and I really want to believe that unconditional love is enough.

My parents and family have always judged negatively EVERY girl I’ve ever dated. Mostly about looks. “She seems nice but she’s not very cute”, “it’s too bad she’s overweight” , “you can do better”… My extended family always made remarks behind my back too.

Also, by God’s grace, I have been mostly free from a pornography addiction that started when I was 12. That’s the conditioning I was referring to. A lot of young men are wiring their brains to compare every woman to pornography stars. It’s really sad. Since I found Christ I’ve fought against that everyday and Lord is continuing to do work in me. I’ve been mostly pure since then but, I have a lot of years of conditioning to overcome.
 
It is NOT what the person looks like, it is the fact that you love this person so much they are the most beautiful person to you.

Or perhaps you are getting cold feet and using her outside looks as an excuse to not commit. Because as you say, most men never give a women they think is ugly a chance. At some point you though she was pretty

Give me a break. A lot of women who are considered gorgeous by movie star standards are physically abused by men. Any man who is low enough to hit a women doesn’t first stop and evaluate her looks

No the best this woman could do is God’s will whether that is marriage or celibacy. But one thing is for sure, it is not God’s will for her to marry a man who is concerned she is not hot enough

True but you still have a lot of growth to do in that area

Umm… yes I agree that God will help you be a more genuine person but…I think the focus should be on becoming the man God wants you to be. After all, if this is not the girl for you to marry, you still should learn not to value outside beauty
Thanks for your opinion. But, I think we should be careful to assume what God’s will is in other people’s lives. You can’t presume to know what’s in my heart or not. I realize I opened myself up here to be judged and attacked. So, I’ll try not to be offended. I just really pray that people could be more loving to one another. If we were perfect people we wouldn’t need the Church. I admit that I’m the first among sinners. I only came here for encouragement and support.
 
My parents and family have always judged negatively EVERY girl I’ve ever dated. Mostly about looks. “She seems nice but she’s not very cute”, “it’s too bad she’s overweight” , “you can do better”… My extended family always made remarks behind my back too.
That is unfortunate. You may need to do some counseling with an objective third party on dealing with critical parents.
Also, by God’s grace, I have been mostly free from a pornography addiction that started when I was 12. That’s the conditioning I was referring to. A lot of young men are wiring their brains to compare every woman to pornography stars. It’s really sad. Since I found Christ I’ve fought against that everyday and Lord is continuing to do work in me. I’ve been mostly pure since then but, I have a lot of years of conditioning to overcome.
God bless you as you continue to strive for holiness.
 
**So what I’m understanding from some of you is that looks really are important. It’s not enough to just love someone for who they are as a person.
**
I guess I could have taken that path the moment I met her and never would have gotten to know how beautiful she is on the inside.That’s what most guys do. Apparently I’m less mature and a worse for giving her inner beauty a chance.

Because of her looks she’s only had one boyfriend before and he emotionally and physically abused her.

I guess it’s better for her to settle for undesirable men or be alone than for me to show her love even if I’m not super attracted to her. I never said I wasn’t attracted to her at all because I am.

Honestly, I don’t buy any of that or the judgement passed on me here. I’m proud of myself for wanting to try and love someone for who they are on the inside. Posting my raw honest feelings here helped me to realize that.

Instead of asking here, I should have just gone straight to God. I think He would encourage me to go after true love, look past lust and idolatry and love this woman for the true beauty that’s inside. In that way I would find her always beautiful in every way.*
No, my dear. 🙂

I think that there has been some kind of misunderstanding regarding the interpreting of posts.

I think from most of the posts here from my own understanding, are that people are telling you that looks should NOT be the most important issue in a relationship–that you should not be basing everything in a relationship on looks alone.

I’m editing my post to add that I’m sorry to hear about the messages that you’ve been hearing from your family whenever you bring a girl home to meet them. I can see “why” you would have doubts about what you’ve been hearing then.

But, you don’t have to listen to that anymore, being that you’re an adult. You can start over, so to speak. 🙂

Looks are going to naturally change in time, as someone gets older.

I can tell you from my own personal experience that that just happens with time.

I have been married to my husband for over 30 years now.

I love my husband very much. It’s a love that has matured and mellowed with time. 🙂

What matters over time in my opinion, are someone’s character traits, and their personality. That is what will get you through life’s difficulties together.
 
Thanks for your opinion. But, I think we should be careful to assume what God’s will is in other people’s lives. You can’t presume to know what’s in my heart or not. I realize I opened myself up here to be judged and attacked. So, I’ll try not to be offended. I just really pray that people could be more loving to one another. If we were perfect people we wouldn’t need the Church. I admit that I’m the first among sinners. I only came here for encouragement and support.
I never said that is what not God’s will for her to marry you. I strongly implied that unless you can see her as a child of it isn’t His will.
 
Because of her looks she’s only had one boyfriend before and he emotionally and physically abused her.

I guess it’s better for her to settle for undesirable men or be alone than for me to show her love even if I’m not super attracted to her. I never said I wasn’t attracted to her at all because I am.
I think this part of your post is unsettling. The fact that you think she isn’t attractive enough to find someone else that she would be attracted to is strange and a little narcissistic. It almost seems like you feel that being with her is an act of charity. If that is the case, please let her go so that she can find someone who is attracted to her. If she was abused before, the fact that she trusts you is huge, so make sure that you are not leading her on.

Why do you think that it’s because of her looks that she’s only had one boyfriend before you? “Unattractive” people have relationships all the time. And if she is not with you, it’s likely that she will go on to find someone who doesn’t care what his family thinks.

If you’re not attracted enough to her, there isn’t anything wrong with that. You can’t help that. (However, it is true that people grow in attractiveness when you love them.) But don’t stay with her because you think you’re the best thing that’s ever going to happen to her.
 
So what I’m understanding from some of you is that looks really are important. It’s not enough to just love someone for who they are as a person.

I guess I could have taken that path the moment I met her and never would have gotten to know how beautiful she is on the inside.That’s what most guys do. Apparently I’m less mature and a worse for giving her inner beauty a chance.

Because of her looks she’s only had one boyfriend before and he emotionally and physically abused her.

I guess it’s better for her to settle for undesirable men or be alone than for me to show her love even if I’m not super attracted to her.
No, you are the one that that thinks looks really are important or we wouldn’t be having this conversation. You are the one that brought up her looks, and how everyone would say you could “do better.” And why would they say that? Because they think you are better looking than her? There is more to beauty than how someone looks physically. If you really were feeling that looks don’t matter, you wouldn’t care what someone looks like, you would stand by her and you would tell those that make negative comments to mind their own business. But instead, you came to this forum and asked for advice.

And honestly, your comment on how mature you acted was distasteful to me. You sound like you did her some kind of favor or something. Then you go on to insult her by insinuating that she will only ever meet undesirable men or be alone. That is pretty judgemental on your part. “Because of her looks, she has only had one boyfriend.” How do you know that? There are many factors that go into why people only have one boyfriend. But you assume it is her looks.
 
No, you are the one that that thinks looks really are important or we wouldn’t be having this conversation. You are the one that brought up her looks, and how everyone would say you could “do better.” And why would they say that? Because they think you are better looking than her? There is more to beauty than how someone looks physically. If you really were feeling that looks don’t matter, you wouldn’t care what someone looks like, you would stand by her and you would tell those that make negative comments to mind their own business. But instead, you came to this forum and asked for advice.

And honestly, your comment on how mature you acted was distasteful to me. You sound like you did her some kind of favor or something. Then you go on to insult her by insinuating that she will only ever meet undesirable men or be alone. That is pretty judgemental on your part. “Because of her looks, she has only had one boyfriend.” How do you know that? There are many factors that go into why people only have one boyfriend. But you assume it is her looks.
Exactly. And for goodness’ sake, don’t marry someone thinking you’re “rescuing” her from guys who aren’t as awesome as you. Marry her because you look forward with joy to spending the rest of your lives together.
 
You need to determine for yourself whether or not you’re attracted to her. That’s really all this comes down to. Be honest with yourself, because if you aren’t attracted to her now, that isn’t going to improve with time and age.

If you are attracted to her and just worried about what other people think: Grow up and don’t get married until you do.

If you aren’t attracted to her: Walk away. You should never, ever marry someone you aren’t attracted to.

Only you can determine which category this situation falls into.
 
Hello, Jason. First of all, for what it’s worth, I’m sorry for all the judgement and resentful words you’ve had to put up with from this thread.

I’m not sure the other posters have fully realized that you essentially opened yourself and bared your soul, as opposed to the typical more reserved standard of social conversation that are normally follow, in which one doesn’t directly say what one thinks. Being in denial, or even simply being silent about the exact nature and content of one’s temptations is not an act of virtue. Not talking about temptations etc. is not the same as not experiencing them. And experiencing them is not the same as falling, just like not being tempted is not the same as resisting. So it’s not okay to judge the OP in the same light as if he casually said the same things over tea. Remember the context, people, he confided in you, giving you some confidential information in the hope you could help him find a solution and the information (which would normally have been ‘TMI’) was a necessary part of that. So, again, it’s not the same as if he had casually approached you with the information, let alone boasted about it at a table in a pub or something else along these lines.

Next, it’s understandable to feel sorry for someone of one’s own sex possibly being in a partially unrequited love situation, it’s not fair to give the OP a thrashing simply for not being attracted to a woman who is attracted to him or to a woman who is a good person etc. etc. Unkind words are simply uncalled for in such a situation — as they would be if men lipped off a bit at a woman for finding herself in an uncomfortable situation with a ‘nice guy but not very exciting’ (the other side of the coin in these type of situations).

Unfortunately this puts me in the position of needing to point out to Jason that hearing such things from people doesn’t automatically mean they’re true or warranted; sometimes it’s emotions at play, e.g. when whoever you confide in sympathizes with the other party in your difficult relationship situation. Hence you need some distance when reading replies in threads like this.

Jason:

There’s a bit of an inconsistency between your first and second post. Re: #1:
It’s the worst feeling in the world because I feel like I’ve found the perfect woman and I truly care about her yet, I’m letting something so shallow and vain get in the way. I feel like the worst man ever. I’m afraid that I’d always feel like I could have found a more attractive woman and I think that’s awful… She deserves to be loved and appreciated so much.
I need some advice on what I should do. Am I stupid to give up such a wonderful woman because of this or are looks actually important in a marriage? Is it Un-Christian for me to be having these feelings? Is it possible that God will help make me more attracted to her?
I really appreciate any advice!
It’s not unchristian to feel or not feel attracted to someone or feel attraced in a particular degree or even for a particular reason. It may or may testify to some sort of character limitation or character failure, even possibly one that’s ultimately due to one’s own fault, but directly, in itself, feeling or not feeling attracted at all or with a specific intensity or for a specific reason is morally neutral. Just like same-sex attraction is neutral, being attracted to someone’s wife is neutral, and for a priest to be attracted to someone is neutral too. What is not neutral is what one does with (about) the attraction.

Whatever the sensations and feelings speak of you (and if they say you aren’t perfect, that certainly should be no news to either you or anyone else), it would be rash to ignore them and their possible impact on the relationship and on the lives of people involved.

Whether it’s possible that God will help you become more attracted — yes, but what guarantee do you have? As Christians we shouldn’t be making stupid decisions and hoping for God to make the results wise.

While at it — it’s not impossible for a man’s attraction to a woman to increase over time for various reasons, but it’s not something that’s going to respond to your will and attempts at self-training and self-control etc. So don’t overestimate your ability to overcome the issue.

And the second one:
 
Thanks for the replies. I know I must sound like a jerk…
You didn’t. You simply spoke in a more direct way about your feelings and thoughts than people usually speak.
I feel in love because I feel like I’d want to share my life with her and take care of her. I want to spend every moment with her. Also, she just is so loving she makes me so happy to be around her. I love that she keeps my focus on God.
There’s no need to ignore the importance of that. It seems you may be a little confused as to what you want or inhibited from choosing what you want as opposed to what you feel might be expected of you.
It’s different that a lustful kind of love of being with someone because they are super hot or exciting to be around. It feels like something lasting and wholesome and not temporary.
Likewise. For the record, excitement and good looks and being ‘hot’ etc. are variables that are subject to change. On the one hand it’s possible to keep them up forever, on the other hand they sometimes vanish in a relatively short time after the wedding (or before, even). This probably means you need to be in touch with your compass.
It’s also not that I don’t find her attractive. She’s cute to me. It’s more that I feel like my family and friends expect me to find someone more attractive. Maybe the problem is more that I’m too worried about what others think.
What others thing is not wise to ignore, so that you don’t think you’re the smartest person around and always right on everything, but ultimately you are responsible for and in charge of your life (in so far as any human is), not they.

You should listen to your family when they are concerned that you might be selecting relatively unattractive people (in all sorts of ways, not just looks) and overplaying your attachment to them because of low self-esteem issues prompting you to lower your standards and settle. But if you meet a truly wonderful woman who just doesn’t happen to be particularly strong in the looks department and your family and friends for some reason overfocus on looks alone, that’s when you need to make an independent decision and perhaps ruffle some feathers. You need to judge which one of the two variants is the case in your current situation. Ask your family, don’t presume.
But, also, as a shallow man, I think there is a misguided desire to want a “hot” wife to desire and feel confident
Don’t self-deprecate. I think you may be having a self-esteem issue, which — if true — would absolutely need to be resolved before you can form a serious relationship.

Next, why draw confidence from the wife’s looks where it can be drawn from her talents or attitude? I would say for a Christian confidence is tied to one’s relationship to God in such ways that normal psychology doesn’t really apply — however, if you do have confidence issues (which, if you pardon me for becoming a little too direct, seems quite likely at least at the present time), you need to get some counselling for the sake of you and your current and future relationships with people. Don’t neglect this, just like you wouldn’t neglect a physical condition such as a broken leg or a flu.
I feel like that is conditioning rather than who I really am. I’m not sure that’s what God would approve of those feeling.
Perhaps it’s time to find out who you really are and what is only conditioning.
 
The irony would be if she posted a thread about the op. That would be interesting. I met a nice guy, except there is this problem…
 
Also, like some other posters have said, it’s important for you to realize that you aren’t necessarily the only or the best man she can find, nor is it even certain that marriage is the best thing that could happen to either of you. That’s something better left to God, I think. 😉 Which also means one shouldn’t be focusing on it obsessively.

Next, in some sense I guess it could be said everybody deserves a loving spouse, but it certainly can’t be said that everybody deserves a spouse who will specifically find him or her to be perfect or excellent in the looks department or any other specific ‘department’ at all.

For example I very well know that I’m about to be balding in a couple of years, no longer have white teeth and have some twenty pounds to lose, urgently if possible. Do I deserve a wife who will find me absolutely the prettiest thing that ever walked the earth? Mercy! I can’t stop laughing (benevolently) at the idea. I know I’m still quite handsome, still more so than the average perhaps, and I’m content with it staying at that. There is no need to pretend I’m handsomer than Brad Pitt. (Though I probably was in my college years, which is a fine story for a rainy night and nothing more.). It’s perfectly fine to not be in denial about the balance of pros and cons or the exact nature of the pros and cons.

I don’t want to say true love isn’t predicated in, because who am I to judge what true love is? There certain are those people who remain happily in denial ever after, until they die (within 5 days of each other) thinking they married the prettiest, wisest, strongest, funniest, hottest/coolest person ever, and all the power to them. 😃 But really there is nothing disqualifying in seeing things in an objective light, either.

(Such as you, Jason, should probably be prepared that your wife isn’t going to see you as the most confident sharp and tough go-getter on the planet, which you probably don’t expect at all. And, for the record, 99% men are not that and probably 60% don’t even expect the poor wife to pretend.)

In any case, don’t marry and don’t even get engage, in fact don’t start a relationship at all, if you would see it as some form of an act of charity, or settling*, or whatever.

(* Unless you’re a trained psychologist or one of those ultra-sober people who realize that almost all of us do in fact settle, i.e. give up the uncertain chase or wait for a more attractive offer than what we are presented with. Nor does this sort of realization actually prevent people from being happy in their marriages — as long as they have truly accepted their choice.)

One more thing, not necessarily directed at Jason, more because of other thoughts shared in this thread: it would be a markedly poor idea to marry someone as an exercise in getting over the importance of looks in mate selection. That’s just not something to do to one’s significant other, nor to oneself.

This means if you can think something to the tune of: ‘oh, she’s quite on the ugly side actually, but she’s so fun to be with I’m totally into it and wouldn’t swap her for anyone in the world,’ as a lot of men probably feel, then well, that’s not exactly something you want to tell the poor woman, but it’s not something that means you shouldn’t marry her either. On the other hand, if you think more along the lines of: ‘well, she’s not ugly, she’s even somewhat pretty but not really pretty enough for me, so it would be a sacrifice for me to make’ then that’s more of a problem.

Some people are expected to make a sacrifice of their marriage (it has happened to certain saints, e.g. in ‘missionary dating’ in the antiquity and middle ages), but don’t presume you are and don’t presume that what you’re doing really is that kind of sacrifice.
 
You need to determine for yourself whether or not you’re attracted to her. That’s really all this comes down to. Be honest with yourself, because if you aren’t attracted to her now, that isn’t going to improve with time and age.

If you are attracted to her and just worried about what other people think: Grow up and don’t get married until you do.

If you aren’t attracted to her: Walk away. You should never, ever marry someone you aren’t attracted to.

Only you can determine which category this situation falls into.
👍 It would be a serious mistake to marry someone that you are not physically abstracted to. This woman deserves a husband that doesn’t regret that he didn’t marry a so called ‘hottie’. 🤷

You wrote, ‘She’s 26 and I’m 30. We’re both looking for a Godly Marriage and commitment.’
Could you explain for us your definition of what a Godly marriage is???
 
The irony would be if she posted a thread about the op. That would be interesting. I met a nice guy, except there is this problem…
Of course. That’s the usual way of things, on both sides. Some romantics find what they think are their ideal soulmates, but most married or even engaged people are probably perfectly aware of having made a decision on the balance of pros and cons, including potential future alternatives they were forsaking.
 
I met an amazing woman. She is so kind, caring, happy and hard working. More than any other woman I’ve ever dated. Most importantly she is a devout Catholic. She goes to church almost every day, prays and reads the bible every day and is always pointing me back to God. I feel like my relationship with God and the church is stronger because of her. I feel in love with her.

So what’s the problem? She sounds like the perfect one right? Well, it makes me feel horrible to say it but, I’m not sure about her looks. She’s petite and takes good care of herself yet but, while I feel terrible for saying it her face isn’t beautiful.

It’s the worst feeling in the world because I feel like I’ve found the perfect woman and I truly care about her yet, I’m letting something so shallow and vain get in the way. I feel like the worst man ever. I’m afraid that I’d always feel like I could have found a more attractive woman and I think that’s awful… She deserves to be loved and appreciated so much.

I need some advice on what I should do. Am I stupid to give up such a wonderful woman because of this or are looks actually important in a marriage? Is it Un-Christian for me to be having these feelings? Is it possible that God will help make me more attracted to her?

I really appreciate any advice!
Quick answer… Does the thought of kissing her repulse you or would you not mind kissing her? I would say if you would not mind kissing her, even if she is not the prettiest, give it a try. Attraction gets stronger sometimes when you get to know someone better. If you absolutely cannot stand the thought of kissing her, or at least find it off putting, I would not bother. Not everyone is attracted to everyone. Even if you are not where you want to be as far as being less shallow in the looks department, you are not doing this woman any favors if you are going to cringe every time you kiss her.
 
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