Relationship in the gutter.

[whatevergirl]

Persuader: Since you didn’t answer the question about where you lived and what languages you spoke I couldn’t help but be curious.

Luckily for me, you have made 83 posts since your join date on November 29th.

The only significant breaks in posts when you could have been sleeping were:

Nov 30, 2.38 am to Nov 30, 3.48 pm
Nov 30: 9.18 pm to dec 1 10.34 am
Dec 1 last activity 8.13 pm – current Dec 2, 4am

(Website measures time in PST, or GMT - 8)

You said your girlfriend has blonde hair, you live in a country with national health care, and that English is your 3rd language…

If you lived in Europe (~9 hours ahead) it means you were sleeping sometime between

11.40 am Nov 30 to 12.48 am Dec 1
6.18 am Dec 1 to 7.34 pm Dec 1
5.13 am Dec 2 to Dec 2 1pm or later

Possible but I don’t think very likely!

Australia ~ 19 hours ahead…

So, 10pm - 10 am on the night you didn’t sleep
4pm - 5am , etc. not likely.

East Asia, say ~ 15 hours ahead

Eastern time seems far more plausible with,

5.38 am to 6.48 pm on the night you said you couldn’t sleep
12.18 am - 1.34 pm
11.13 pm - 7 am and later

So, some guesses, you are an immigrant studying in Canada, or you live in Quebec where it is common for the French speaking people to also speak English very well.

Maybe you are of Asian descent living in Quebec, hence 3 languages?

*I think he’s 6 hours ahead? My computer for some reason shows the time as 2 hours behind easter standard time…so if I’ve calculated right, Persuader…you started typing at 4-ish am and onward? Do you ever sleep?

Hope things work out for you…I’m glad to see the wonderful advice you received. God bless.*

 

[newbetx]

Now, what do you expect from us? You expect us to be moral, to have all those important things figured out? But what do you feed us, what is expected by public opinion, what is considered popular? All the things you tell us not to do, that’s what.

This is not an attack on you. I’m sorry. I’m just so tired of the double standard.

The double standard comes from the purveyors of the culture, not the church. It took me decades to figure that out. But once I did, I found the Church’s perspective is rock solid AND it resonated with what I felt in my heart was true. I missed the mark on a few things and I was able to make the adjustments in my life to accommodate.

I don’t know that you can understand why what you are doing is wrong. And I don’t mean that in a mean way. I don’t know that I could have with the experience I had and the desires that the culture said I was entitled to at your age, either. But, that won’t stop me from trying to convey, via my experience, that what you are doing is, indeed, not healthy for either of you.

What you are hearing is true. ABC can mess with the mind. Happened to my gf, too. The message to you from the Church is this. Sex is a very serious action. Not a “form of entertainment” or some mutual benefit as the culture, currently projects.

Really, nothing is different here than 30 years ago. The internet has nothing to do with it. Music is not different. TV is to some degree. Movies, a bit more obvious, but the “adult theme” is still the same.

How are you doing on finding the book “Real Love”? I hope you don’t dismiss it as folly. I can tell you I’ve made a ton of mistakes in my life. I didn’t think so at the time, but with hindsight, there was a much better way to live. I am not without sin, so I won’t throw stones, but I will do what I can to help you and her figure this out. I hope you have the patience to stick with this. I promise you is will be well worth it.

 

[Ankabaranka_87]

flyingfish, this is what he wrote yesterday:

I do not want to be too specific, but I will say this:

1. Scandinavia. Although not a country, it will give you a general idea.
2. She is 19, I am 20.
3. I have said this already. At campus
4. Yes, we are both students attending university.

 

[Monica4316]

Powerful story. I really empathize.

However, I want you to know a couple of things to ease your mind (if you are worried). First of all, she is using contraceptives (I know it’s wrong according to the faith). You can say she might get pregnant anyway, but these contraceptives are the most effective. Better than the pill, and better than condoms. Almost a hundred precent. If we stop using contraceptives for whatever reason, I will not be having vaginal sex with her before I make sure we can support a family. I can promise that much, at least.

do you realize that these contraceptives can cause an early abortion???

is it really worth killing a life in the process? that only makes things even worse

Persuader,

When I was 19, I was dating an agnostic-leaning-atheist. At the time, my faith was weak and I was questioning. We started living together, and I got on the Pill. The sex was great, we were madly in love, but something started going wrong. I felt like the life was draining out of me. I started to feel like the only time I was happy was when we were having sex - but afterwards, I felt horrible. I didn’t really want to not be a virgin anymore. I started wanting to live according to my faith again, but was struggling with the wretched reality that I loved my boyfriend more than God, and that’s how I was living my life. I was crying daily, and my boyfriend was incredibly torn and guilt-ridden.

Then he did the things that changed the entire direction of the relationship: He quit having sex with me and encouraged me to go to Confession. We continued to live together because we had shared credit cards, bank accounts, lease, etc., but we were chaste. I could receive the Eucharist again! He started attending church with me - first on holidays, then every Sunday. We got engaged a few months later, and have now been (mostly) happily married for 4.5 years.

So while my situation wasn’t identical (I stayed Catholic, although I had a LOT of “If you exist” conversations with God during that time), it was very similar to what your girlfriend is experiencing. My advice: Stop having sex. Encourage her to stop using the contraceptive (especially since many have side effects of depression) and to talk to her priest. See if she will confess her lack of faith (and sexual relationship) in the sacrament of Reconciliation - because Reconciliation is now precisely what you want for her. Consider that the “life” she had wasn’t just a psychological state, but was something real and concrete - a true gift of the Holy Spirit. You CANNOT help her regain her faith unless you encourage her to life like a Christian, including chastity, so giving up sex is absolutely necessary - or you will be saying one thing with your mouth, and another thing with your body.

And if you really want to help her get her faith back? Pray. Pray for her, desperately. If God exists, He exists regardless of whether or not you believe in Him. So you might as well pray. If He doesn’t exist, the worst case is that you will be talking to yourself or to empty air. If you are in a public space at the time, people might look at you strangely - I speak from experience You don’t have to lie and tell God you believe in Him. Just lay it out straight - you are desperate, you don’t know what to do, you don’t believe in Him, but if He does exist, you want Him to help reopen your girlfriend’s heart. And consider praying for yourself a little while you are at it I assume that if God does exist, you’d want to know the truth and believe in Him. So tell Him that. He can change hearts. Give Him whatever little willingness you have to work with Him-if-He-exists, and trust that He can do the rest.

And consider praying with your girlfriend. Even without faith, you can still pray. Just talk to God-if-He-exists together, and seek Him. He will answer you.

I hope this helps. I really feel for you. I’d ask my husband to stop by and offer his $0.02, but he’s pretty shy and not one to give advice. I’ll ask him for his thoughts as well, though. Since he’s been in something similar to your shoes, he might have some insight.

great post.

 

[Just_Lurking]

Some suggestions for your girlfriend, given that everyone else has their sights set on changing you:

• The Problem of Pain, by C.S. Lewis (see here) addresses how God can exist despite all the suffering here on Earth.
• The TV series Touched by an Angel (see here) shows how not even angels are perfect and know everything, but God still makes things come out for the best in ways we can’t see.
• The Chicken Soup for the Soul book series contains many good, uplifting anecdotes.

Your girlfriend has lost her joy in life. Was their anything in her life that gave her joy besides her faith in God?

Before she lost her faith, you two had many discussions about God. Now, can you have those discussions about whether being an atheist necessarily means a life without purpose, as she seems to believe?

 

[Monica4316]

“We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased.” – C. S. Lewis

 

[Persuader]

I do not have much time to spend here with finals and my gf taking up all of my time, so I will not be able to answer comments and such for now. Just a quick update on how things turned out with the advice you gave. I spoke with her mother, and she gave some abuse, but not as bad as earlier. First a little back-story:

Before this problem surfaced, my gf and I had been speaking about spending the holidays together. Normally she would go home to her family, whereas I would be going home to mine. Because of her family’s hostility towards me, she thought it best that she come and spend it with my family, but that we might go over and visit her family if they allowed it and were nice about it.

Now, back to her mother. After taking some abuse, she let up, and spoke to me in a more calm and sensible fashion. She said that my gf had said she wouldn’t be coming home for the holidays, but spend it with me. Remember that this had only been a discussion between me and my gf, and not something we had decided. Apparently she decided on her own, and told her mother.

I can’t say this surprised me, but her mother’s reaction certainly did. Her mother said that she would consider having us over if I were to agree to some conditions. Stop having sex, and getting her off the contraceptive was the most important. I told her mother I only had power over the first one, and that I couldn’t do much about the contraceptive. I think that her mother might be giving up in trying to split us up, which is a good sign.

So we made a shaky truce with some conditions. Maybe half an hour later, I got a message from my gf saying she wanted to see me. So we met up, and she told me her mother had called her, and asked her to come home for the holidays with me in tow! Her mother had apologized to her for her behavior and everything!

My gf was a bit angry at me for making deals with her mother behind her back (she quickly figured out my meddling ways), but said she understood my motivations (very wise this girl ). Further she said she had told her mother that she would consider the offer. So things are still very much up in the air, but the relationship with her family has improved, I think. Now, if she decides to take her mother’s offer, I will need some advice on how to handle that visit! Thanks in advance, my secret counsel of catholic zealots

 

[Tezza]

I do not have much time to spend here with finals and my gf taking up all of my time, so I will not be able to answer comments and such for now. Just a quick update on how things turned out with the advice you gave. I spoke with her mother, and she gave some abuse, but not as bad as earlier. First a little back-story:

Before this problem surfaced, my gf and I had been speaking about spending the holidays together. Normally she would go home to her family, whereas I would be going home to mine. Because of her family’s hostility towards me, she thought it best that she come and spend it with my family, but that we might go over and visit her family if they allowed it and were nice about it.

Now, back to her mother. After taking some abuse, she let up, and spoke to me in a more calm and sensible fashion. She said that my gf had said she wouldn’t be coming home for the holidays, but spend it with me. Remember that this had only been a discussion between me and my gf, and not something we had decided. Apparently she decided on her own, and told her mother.

I can’t say this surprised me, but her mother’s reaction certainly did. Her mother said that she would consider having us over if I were to agree to some conditions. Stop having sex, and getting her off the contraceptive was the most important. I told her mother I only had power over the first one, and that I couldn’t do much about the contraceptive. I think that her mother might be giving up in trying to split us up, which is a good sign.

So we made a shaky truce with some conditions. Maybe half an hour later, I got a message from my gf saying she wanted to see me. So we met up, and she told me her mother had called her, and asked her to come home for the holidays with me in tow! Her mother had apologized to her for her behavior and everything!

My gf was a bit angry at me for making deals with her mother behind her back (she quickly figured out my meddling ways), but said she understood my motivations (very wise this girl ). Further she said she had told her mother that she would consider the offer. So things are still very much up in the air, but the relationship with her family has improved, I think. Now, if she decides to take her mother’s offer, I will need some advice on how to handle that visit! Thanks in advance, my secret counsel of catholic zealots

Thanks for keeping us posted, Persuader.

I’m glad things are getting better between you and her family. Maybe it’s because so many of us are praying for you guys

Peace,
Teri

 

[nicreap]

Glad to hear things are getting better between you and her family, hopefully she will be open and listen to them. And just try and remember that regardless of what her mother says to you, you are both on the same side, you are both trying to help her find life and happiness. You need to make sure your gf realizes that too, she might try and attack her mother as being uncaring and unsupporting, but like you her mother is trying to help, and reignite the person she once was.

Your, both in my prayers

 

[newbetx]

Thanks in advance, my secret counsel of catholic zealots

Thanks for the compliment! We wouldn’t want to be known as “wishy washy Catholics.”

Good luck with your finals.

 

[DJgang]

Still in my prayers.

 

[StillWondering]

My gf was a bit angry at me for making deals with her mother behind her back (she quickly figured out my meddling ways), but said she understood my motivations (very wise this girl ). Further she said she had told her mother that she would consider the offer. So things are still very much up in the air, but the relationship with her family has improved, I think. Now, if she decides to take her mother’s offer, I will need some advice on how to handle that visit! Thanks in advance, my secret counsel of catholic zealots

Consider bringing a gift, maybe a Catholic prayer book =). I suggest the magnificat or something devotional. Also having food together is a form of communion. Having food with a family, especially a Catholic strong family is important. So prepare for that however your culture dictates it with the sense of respect for the meals.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

And when they say grace before meals, your proper posture is to sit with your hands folded in your lap and looking down at your plate and when they say Amen, that means “I agree” (which you say because you’re grateful for the good food and the hospitality that are ultimately the gift of a God you don’t believe in, but He gives you good things anyway.)

And call the dad Sir at every opportunity. Keep your hands off your girlfriend. No obvious display of affection around her beyond holding her hand now and then. Laugh at their jokes. Be interested in their conversation. And look around and notice the kind of family atmosphere that produced your GF.

Because if she becomes a mother, chances are someday she will revert back to that as her model for building a happy family, faith and all.

And learn to like the mother. Your GF will turn into someone very like her someday, chances are. If you want to see how the calf will turn out, look at the cow. (I know. Horrible way to say it, but it’s a family joke so I’ll share it.)

Most of us women are busy turning into our mothers. Whether we like it or not. The process is accelerated to warp speed at the birth of our first child.

And when we have kids, the last thing we want to hand onto them is nothingness and disbelief.

 

[sanctamaria17]

Lib has good points. Listen to her

 

[Persuader]

Hello, guys. As I said earlier, my gf is still not sure if she wants to go home for the holidays because of her family’s behavior, so I’m not sure it will happen. I am hopeful though, and if we are going to stay together, I would hate for her to cut all ties with her family.

So, assuming we are going, I am going to need to make an impression. What you have said about behaving and such is sound, but kinda goes without saying. I am not without a social antenna. Anyway, I remember my gf telling me that they pray together. I don’t think I could contribute much to that. I don’t know anything about that. It would be insincere anyway.

However, I know this song that was written as a sermon by a Lutheran minister (it’s somewhat a classic in Scandinavia). It’s about the human relationship with God, but it’s also about human solidarity and togetherness - supporting each other no matter what. I play the guitar, and I thought it would be relevant to our situation, plus it is quite beautiful (made my gf bawl like a baby when I sung it to her several months ago):

youtube.com/watch?v=84r5OQX4y5o (not the best quality or the best version, but it has subtitles. Notice the lyrics.)

What do you think? Too much?

 

[monicatholic]

Stavningen är det nog inget större fel på…men jag håller med om att själva översättningen inte är särskilt bra och formuleringarna är dåliga. Du kan ju alltid göra om det

i think that means i like the song just fine but do not, under any circumstances, serenade these people.

this is about them feeling you out, assessing you, reading you. come in like a showboat and you’re doomed. they correctly perceive you and their daughter have jointly trampled their upbringing and moral code so tread lightly.

they don’t want to be entertained.

 

[Persuader]

i think that means i like the song just fine but do not, under any circumstances, serenade these people.

this is about them feeling you out, assessing you, reading you. come in like a showboat and you’re doomed. they correctly perceive you and their daughter have jointly trampled their upbringing and moral code so tread lightly.

they don’t want to be entertained.

Too much, then? I wouldn’t do it on the first day, of course. If we go, we will probably stay there for some time.

 

[garyr]

Too much, then? I wouldn’t do it on the first day, of course. If we go, we will probably stay there for some time.

And since you are not married, you will be sleeping in separate rooms every night . . .in case you didn’t know . . .

 

[Liberanosamalo]

And again, when they pray, you behave with the same respect and attention you’d behave with if you were at an official function and someone played the national anthem of a country to which you did not belong.

I second the no singing. The last thing you want to do is come across as some music man who used that to help reel in their daughter.

You are not doling out their daughter to them. Boyfriends, husbands, fiances come and go. DNA is forever. Remember that. Ten months ago you didn’t know she existed. 10 months ago she was their lifelong treasure and had been for 18 years.

Don’t ever forget that.

 

[monicatholic]

***You are not doling out their daughter to them. ***Boyfriends, husbands, fiances come and go. DNA is forever. Remember that. Ten months ago you didn’t know she existed. 10 months ago she was their lifelong treasure and had been for 18 years.

Don’t ever forget that

this is a squarely hit nail.