Relationships and Past

[TheRealJuliane]

Apparently she forgot the conversation we had a few months ago when we talked about being completely open with each other. And she gave me her password for her e-mail. I have reluctantly stayed away from invading her privacy until this morning, when I felt like it could go on no longer. I knew in my heart she wasn’t being honest, and I knew that unless i pushed her she was not going to be honest. On a phone conversation I questioned the emails and she asked me if i wanted to see them. When I bit and asked to see them she panicked and hung up the phone, so I looked. Wrong of me, YES! Do I regret it, NO. If i had not done what I did, I would be in bed right now full of doubt and fear. At least now I feel we can move on, or not move on with this relationship, based on the truth

OK, thanks. You can’t trust her. You know you can’t trust her. She has been dishonest to you many times already. Yes, looking at her email was wrong. At least you have the information. Tell her to change the password, and then you must get away. She’s not able to be the kind of person you believe that she can be. Not now, maybe not ever. Please don’t involve your children in this relationship. Please tell me that you haven’t up until now.

 

[chevalier]

OK, thanks. You can’t trust her. You know you can’t trust her. She has been dishonest to you many times already. Yes, looking at her email was wrong. At least you have the information. Tell her to change the password, and then you must get away. She’s not able to be the kind of person you believe that she can be. Not now, maybe not ever. Please don’t involve your children in this relationship. Please tell me that you haven’t up until now.

+1

 

[Luna_Lovecraft]

2 weeks ago she emailed an ex-boyfriend saying she had a dream about him and asking how he was doing…she totally denied contacting him

yesterday the same ex emailed her an old picture of the two of them, and she sent a very emotional reply stating how she wished things would of went differently between them and how she wished she would have seen him last christmas when he was in town…she admitted he contacted her, but stated she was very blunt in her response to him

about a month ago she changed her phone number in order to separate herself from a lot of her past. last night she met a different ex-boyfriend while out and gave him her new number…she confessed all of this to me immediately, and has since responded to him to please not contact her she made a mistake

one month after we started seeing each other, she lied to me and told me that she spent one sunday with her family, when she actually went to a football game with one of her friends and 2 guys. she confessed this lie to me that night, but told me that it wasn’t a “date” with one of the guys…today i asked her again, and she admitted it was like a date

throughout our relationship she has told me that she never really loved her ex-husband of 5 years…today she felt the need to tell me that she really did love him, and that she has moved on, but is still getting over some of the memories (she officially divorced last april, but has been separated from him for almost 2 years)

she admitted to me today she has a drinking problem, not that she can’t stop, but that when she does drink she can’t control her being “too social” with other guys and she attracts too much attention…she told me on her own that she recognizes she CAN NOT go out and drink with her friends any more

Your girlfriend doesn’t need a mortal man; she needs a knight on a white steed to ride in and rescue her from herself. And I have just one question for you: Unless you are said knight, willing to give your entire life to battling her psychic dragons, are you willing to put yourself - and more importantly your children - through the F5-level havoc she’s going to inevitably bring to your life?

Just to give you some perspective here - you’ve described six scenarios here, any one of which would be deal-breaking for most emotionally-healthy, mature adults. This woman is deeply troubled. My two cents - distance yourself and your children as far from her as you can get.

Luna

 

[Trishie]

This is exactly what I was trying to get at in my first post, but does everyone really seem to think that it was unfair of me to ask her about her past? Especially when i have already given her everything about my past?

That was before you told us more of the facts.
You are caught up in the emotion of things, but intelligence, protection of your children and of yourself should be enough to tell you that no matter what she says sometimes, her multiple romantic contacts with other male friends behind your back, indicate that she is not to be trusted. If you marry her knowing of those repeated incidents, then you will have to bear the consequences, and so therefore will your children.

Her nice intentions are at variance with her actions. It isn’t what people say, it’s their actions that prove who they are. If you allow your emotions and hers to paper over the facts, don’t imagine they will remain papered over. The cracks will show soon enough.

I know it’s lonely to have no one of your own, but your children are better with the full attention of their Dad, not a Dad who is always worried about his girlfriend’s and wife’s fidelity. She hasn’t really committed to you, just likes the idea…that’s what comes across in your subsequent posts.

 

[blaiselfd5]

For what its worth…

My girlfriend came to me tonight and told me that she wants me to be her best friend and her leader. She told me that regardless of my reaction, she needed to tell me now everything about her past (i was never going to judge her about her past anyway). It was not easy for her, and she cried most of the time, but she opened up to me and told me all of her darkest secrets.

She also explained to me how that very dark past scarred her to the point where she struggles with needing to feel attention. Needing to feel wanted. I can see exactly what she means by that, and i can NOW see the reasoning for her careless attempts to reach out to past ex-boyfriends. She is a smart woman, and she knows that her past does not give her the excuse to do the things she did. Before tonight, I think she truly felt so all alone because of the dark secrets she has kept bottled up inside for so long. And we all know how easy it is to allow one lie to compound to the next and to the next, and before we know it, we feel helpless in finding the truth.

I don’t know if therapy for her is immediately necessary. My heart tells me that if I stand next to her, shower her with my love, through our prayers and faith we will both grow from this crazy day. My kids are my main concern, and I do worry about setting them up for disappointment…but the truth of the matter is, she is AMAZING!! with my children. she is patient, and kind, and more loving and caring than i could have ever possible dreamed a woman to be. My children never truly knew their mother, even though they still see her periodically. They have never felt the true womanly love that my girlfriend can and has given to them.

Call me crazy. Call me stupid. Call me careless. Call me whatever…but after a very crazy and emotional day, I am going to sleep tonight believing that I am doing the right thing by standing by her side, and trusting that she truly wants to be better, and will be better, and will never, ever again lie to me, as she has promised.

Thank you all for your thoughts and prayers

 

[GraceDK]

I think a little more information regarding my subject is necessary. I don’t care one bit about my girlfriends past and what she has been through, what i do care about is honesty. I guess I was a little emotional and extensive about asking her to tell me everything, but don’t forget that she had just 10 minutes earlier blatently lied to me in my face about contact she had with an ex-boyfriend. It was only once I told her I knew exactly what happened, did she decide to come clean with me.

Now I know people will jump to conclusions about how i should “run”. But i truly believe in my heart God brought us together for a purpose. I feel like i have been in her shoes, and although i don’t agree with it, i know why she lied to me. Now i know this looks terrible, but I truly believe she wants to be a better woman/girlfriend, and I believe that she can and will be better.

So my inquiring of her past was a way for me to give her the oppurtunity to open up with me completely and become honest. I have truly given into her, and trusted in her, and told her my darkest secrets. I wish she could do the same, ONLY because I want to feel like she really really really is committed to “US”.

Thank you for the replies, I can see that I deserve no right to KNOW her past. I do not own her, and I need to accept her for who she is, and only be here to listen to her when she wants to talk.

Just a little more info…I am a 29 year old single father of 3 (ages 9, 7, and 5), and have been for the past 5 years. She is a 27 year old woman who has had a troubled past, like me, but is truly searching to finds God’s love. We found each other through our catholic faith, and we pray together regularly, and are making all the decisions according to our faith. (for example we are practicing chastity, and we choose NOT to live together before marriage)

Again, your words mean a lot to me…Thanks

Friend.

Your post makes me notice some things and I wanna tell about some similar experiences I had.

You say you guys have only been together for 6 month. Thats way too short a time to expect another person to share everything about herself.
She needs to know you respect her borders! Thats hugely important. Especially if she is traumatized by something. You need to step back and let her know you are there for her, so that she can safely open up over time. but she needs to know you for a lot longer time to know if you are a trustworthy person and not just a boy in love.

My own last boyfriend did like you… he wanted to know absolutely everything about my past. I told him everything and I was in some ways relieved, but by sharing everything with him I gave him a huge attachment for which our relationship was not ripe, and furthermore I burdened him. See, sometimes people dont know what serves them best. Im sure that he felt stabbed when he listened to my open confessions… it was not good for him! but he had an exaggerated idea of love and sacrifice. In that period we got into a very unhealthy psychologist-client or father-child kind of dynamics which was BAD for our relationship, and it took time to get out of that dynamics later on.
The relationship lasted for over two years but the man only recently told me some heavy stuff about his own upbringing. He told me in his time, when he was ready! Thats fully okay… it took him that long before HE was ready to share those certain things.
People need transparency to a certain degree in order to feel accepted but don’t push this, especially when you have no chance of knowing if you will stick around for the long run.

By the way. My boyfriend sometimes gave me the first degree, and he was standing behind me when I checked my mails, wanted to know all stuff and basically he treated me like a suspect. This backlashed at our relationship, because sometimes I started to omit saying things to him because I knew it would get blown totally out of proportion, and that he was making things up in his own imagination, so guess what, I was accused of lying etc. It was really crazy! I have never been treated like a suspect until then, and eyeopener: it actually makes people act suspiciously when they are constantly feeling controlled and suspected of things they didnt do.
He acted like this because he had been betrayed in his past. But he could not see that he was out of line.

So my advice to you: BACK OFF! Respect her by respecting her borders. Do not create a false attachment and dont play psycholist or priest. If she in the long run cannot tell you things that have had a major impact on her life, you might need to be free and rational enough to withdraw from the relationship. After 6 months you get to know her at her pace.

 

[GraceDK]

wow, I just read some of your later posts…

Now I doubt if she really loves you or if she is just using you because you are kind and understanding to her.
I think you need to take a time out… there are huge red lights here… and just like I said, you have now gotten to open up about her past, which makes you even more entangled.

I say you let her sort out the annulment process and think about what she really wants and then later you two can contact each other again…
I mean, until proven otherwise you KNOW that she is a married woman, and you are forming an attachment to her, which will serve neither of you at this point.

What would you eg. do if annulment gets denied for her?
How about your kids.

You are playing with fire man… and wearing the rosy glasses

 

[Trishie]

Blaise, perhaps the prayer is helping things to enfold? Trusting in God’s guidance and action…

Continuing prayer that God who alone knows all things will securely guide you and this young woman in the best interests of your temporal and spiritual welfare and that of your children.
May the action of the Holy Spirit bring about all that God desires for your children and for this young woman and yourself.
Certainly, to God nothing is impossible.

 

[AllSeasons]

Stop pressing her for every last bit of her past! What is your need to know EVERYTHING in her past? You have no right to expect this from her. She has no need to tell you everything she has ever done. You are not her priest. If she has things she is ashamed of, you have no right to feel as if you get the information. You are violating boundaries. If it were me, I’d break up with you based on that. You would probably dump her if she told you everything.

I’m afraid I will have to disagree with this in the sense that I believe that a marriage should be based on honesty and openness. The OP already stated that “what happened in her past means nothing to [him].” However, if he is to marry this woman, then I think he’s entitled to what he wants to know about her. She may not tell him, and he may not like what he hears, but if you’re to have a marriage, these things need to be talked about ahead of time, instead of after saying the vows. Keeping secrets from your spouse is not healthy.

 

[promethius]

OK, thanks. You can’t trust her. You know you can’t trust her. She has been dishonest to you many times already. Yes, looking at her email was wrong. At least you have the information. Tell her to change the password, and then you must get away. She’s not able to be the kind of person you believe that she can be. Not now, maybe not ever. Please don’t involve your children in this relationship. Please tell me that you haven’t up until now.

+2

This reads like a bad drama. She has problems for which she needs REAL help from a counselor… problems that are going to lead to infidelity as you (OP) feed into her addiction for exterior validation. And OP, you seem to believe that you have some magical ability to heal people by your very presense in a relationship.

This is not the grounds for a good marraige, or one that will be helpful in a marriage. She needs to go get help and be single (and chaste!) during that time. You need to LET her go and do this so that she can take care of herself and learn that her own approval and attention is what matters. Only THEN can you two properly discern a healthy marraige.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

For what its worth…

My girlfriend came to me tonight and told me that she wants me to be her best friend and her leader. She told me that regardless of my reaction, she needed to tell me now everything about her past (i was never going to judge her about her past anyway). It was not easy for her, and she cried most of the time, but she opened up to me and told me all of her darkest secrets.

She also explained to me how that very dark past scarred her to the point where she struggles with needing to feel attention. Needing to feel wanted. I can see exactly what she means by that, and i can NOW see the reasoning for her careless attempts to reach out to past ex-boyfriends. She is a smart woman, and she knows that her past does not give her the excuse to do the things she did. Before tonight, I think she truly felt so all alone because of the dark secrets she has kept bottled up inside for so long. And we all know how easy it is to allow one lie to compound to the next and to the next, and before we know it, we feel helpless in finding the truth.

I don’t know if therapy for her is immediately necessary. My heart tells me that if I stand next to her, shower her with my love, through our prayers and faith we will both grow from this crazy day. My kids are my main concern, and I do worry about setting them up for disappointment…but the truth of the matter is, she is AMAZING!! with my children. she is patient, and kind, and more loving and caring than i could have ever possible dreamed a woman to be. My children never truly knew their mother, even though they still see her periodically. They have never felt the true womanly love that my girlfriend can and has given to them.

Call me crazy. Call me stupid. Call me careless. Call me whatever…but after a very crazy and emotional day, I am going to sleep tonight believing that I am doing the right thing by standing by her side, and trusting that she truly wants to be better, and will be better, and will never, ever again lie to me, as she has promised.

Thank you all for your thoughts and prayers

OK, you can be her Savior. Sounds like she’s put you into that role and you like the idea. This:

*My heart tells me that if I stand next to her, shower her with my love, through our prayers and faith we will both grow from this crazy day. *

Sure, you can heal her wounds with your love. Let me know how that works out. I wish you all the best.

 

[promethius]

OK, you can be her Savior. Sounds like she’s put you into that role and you like the idea. This:

*My heart tells me that if I stand next to her, shower her with my love, through our prayers and faith we will both grow from this crazy day. *

Sure, you can heal her wounds with your love. Let me know how that works out. I wish you all the best.

For clarification, because I think the OP could miss it, did I just detect a large amount of sarcasm?

 

[TheRealJuliane]

For clarification, because I think the OP could miss it, did I just detect a large amount of sarcasm?

Yes. Your sarcasm detector is working perfectly. Now that the OP has what he wants, the information about this woman’s past, he’s going to ignore every last concern he had before and try to fix it all! “If I just love her enough, she won’t need to lie to me and flirt with/sneak around with/have affairs with other guys!” It sounds as if it might be plausible, until you try it and realize that it doesn’t work! In fact, in a lot of cases, things get WORSE when you try to love someone out of their neuroses…

But the OP probably isn’t going to listen…

 

[promethius]

Yes. Your sarcasm detector is working perfectly. Now that the OP has what he wants, the information about this woman’s past, he’s going to ignore every last concern he had before and try to fix it all! “If I just love her enough, she won’t need to lie to me and flirt with/sneak around with/have affairs with other guys!” It sounds as if it might be plausible, until you try it and realize that it doesn’t work! In fact, in a lot of cases, things get WORSE when you try to love someone out of their neuroses…

I agree, been there, done that. You can’t save people. In fact, that was one of my strongest revelations from God… I was busy at another failing relationship trying to be the white knight… stressing over her problems and why I couldn’t wave a wand and fix everything and have her be whole again.

Then one day I was praying so hard about it, and I “heard” a voice… except without hearing it… and the message was so incredibly clear that it rang like a bell. It said, “This is not your cross to bear.”

I moved on, I stopped trying to ride in and save people from that day on, and I’d say my relationships since then have been FAR healthier and more beneficial to ALL involved. I’ve stopped projecting non-existant virtue on people and started referring them to the help they need, and I don’t stress as much when they don’t take my advice. I had to realize at some point that I wasn’t Christ, and that even Christ didn’t FORCE people into accepting His offering.

But the OP probably isn’t going to listen…

probably something you have to learn from experience… shame that so many lessons in life have to be taught by such a brutal teacher…

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I agree, been there, done that. You can’t save people. In fact, that was one of my strongest revelations from God… I was busy at another failing relationship trying to be the white knight… stressing over her problems and why I couldn’t wave a wand and fix everything and have her be whole again.

Then one day I was praying so hard about it, and I “heard” a voice… except without hearing it… and the message was so incredibly clear that it rang like a bell. It said, “This is not your cross to bear.”

I moved on, I stopped trying to ride in and save people from that day on, and I’d say my relationships since then have been FAR healthier and more beneficial to ALL involved. I’ve stopped projecting non-existant virtue on people and started referring them to the help they need, and I don’t stress as much when they don’t take my advice. I had to realize at some point that I wasn’t Christ, and that even Christ didn’t FORCE people into accepting His offering.

probably something you have to learn from experience… shame that so many lessons in life have to be taught by such a brutal teacher…

One of the insights I’ve received over the last year is that many times, we fall in love with a false image of the person instead of the REAL PERSON. It’s this shimmering mirage in the distance that we convince ourselves is THERE if we can only reach it. In the meantime, we deny our own eyes and ears, our minds and hearts, sometimes even what the REAL PERSON tells us straight out loud, such as “I am not good enough for you,” or “I am not ready for a real relationship.” No, we try to convince the person to try and match our mirage-image.

I used to think that people who lived in chaos just needed to see the light and maybe have a little help and they would stop doing it. But I learned that actually, people get what they want in life. If they want to live in high drama, they do it. It’s not being done without their cooperation. It’s a choice.

 

[Luna_Lovecraft]

I used to think that people who lived in chaos just needed to see the light and maybe have a little help and they would stop doing it. But I learned that actually, people get what they want in life. If they want to live in high drama, they do it. It’s not being done without their cooperation. It’s a choice.

Agree 100%

Unfortunately, for every adult who - for whatever reason - needs or wants to live a drama-filled life, there is a person who - again for whatever reason - needs or wants to save them. :shrug:When these two people meet and begin a relationship, they can create a perfect storm of chaos.

Luna

 

[styrgwillidar]

I don’t know if therapy for her is immediately necessary.

I do. Yes, lots of it, and probably some anti-depressants as well. You also need therapy and counseling. She needs to be comfortable in her own skin not looking for outside attention to feel complete. If you love her you will back off for her, not yourself. Tell her the past doesn’t matter to you, but her truly coming to grips with her past is essential for both of you.

Go to couples counseling/therapy whatever you want to call it to work TOGETHER. You both need some subjective person assisting you.

My heart tells me that if I stand next to her, shower her with my love, through our prayers and faith we will both grow from this crazy day.

The stupidity of our hearts are why God gave us brains. Use them. Again, our hearts are why sometimes getting an objective opinion from uninvolved people is a good idea. Talking to us faceless people on the internet isn’t as good is going to a professional.

My kids are my main concern, My children never truly knew their mother, even though they still see her periodically. They have never felt the true womanly love that my girlfriend can and has given to them.

Here’s a bit of advice-- help your children get to know their mother better. Make it more than periodically if you can. Phone calls everyday- get a cell phone and put her number in your family plan so they can talk as long as they want to. It doesn’t matter what any other woman in their lives gives them, it’s not the same as their mother (as much as they may come to love and appreciate her). They won’t want her to be their mom, if she’s wonderful they’ll wish their own mother was like her. But, they will always want to feel a connection with and feel/think/believe the woman who brought them into this world had feelings for them. Plenty of folks spend their adulthoods searching for that.

I admire that you see the wonderful, that you don’t want to write someone off for their past. But you do need to use your brains and realize you are in very dangerous territory for the long term. I think getting joint counseling is essential for you.

 

[blaiselfd5]

To styrgwildar

Their mother is perfectly happy seeing her children for 2 hours about 6 times a year. Thanks for the advice but trying to reach out to their mother is not possible

To Juliane

Thanks for the sarcasm, it helped me to rate your level of significance while I search for advice. Understand that I am not marrying this woman tomorrow. I am moving forward with now extra caution with the faith and hope that God will intervene if she does indeed lie again. I think I have found valid evidense for the reasoning of her untruthfullness and I believe in her and that she is indeed committed to becoming a better woman. I believe that the people in this world who have lived with the darkest of pasts have special blessing of becoming the holiest of Christians. They know what it means to have lived closest to the forces evil, and it makes them more determined to not return to that state. So…I believe in her, while at the same time I proceed with caution, as she understands, and we will continue to pray every night, TOGETHER.

God bless, blaise

 

[styrgwillidar]

blaise

My childrens’ mother left, I pay for the cell phones so they/she can call and talk every day. I have set up my household and live in such a way that she can visit and I vacate so they have alone time with her.

Again, it really isn’t relevant what their mother is happy with. It’s about what best supports your children and their emotional needs, today, 10 years from now, 25 years from now. They or you can not regain these years. Their relationship with you in the future will be colored by how they see you’re enabling or opposing their mother’s choice to distance herself from them.

 

[blaiselfd5]

blaise

My childrens’ mother left, I pay for the cell phones so they/she can call and talk every day. I have set up my household and live in such a way that she can visit and I vacate so they have alone time with her. I have full custody but pay child support to her so she can do activities with them.

Again, it really isn’t relevant what their mother is happy with. It’s about what best supports your children and their emotional needs, today, 10 years from now, 25 years from now. They or you can not regain these years. Their relationship with you in the future will be colored by how they see you’re enabling or opposing their mother’s choice to distance herself from them.

Again, thank you for your insight, but our situations are far too different to compare. I have lived most of the time since our separation bending over backwards making sure they seen their mom at every opportunity. But the truth is that she doesn’t want to see them. I refuse to spend my children’s childhood with trying to make their mother want them. I remain dedicated to being overly generous to my children’s mother when she asks for them, but I will not dump off my children to a woman who wants not to be with them.

All this talk has really brought into light my fear of losing my girlfriend I guess part of my confidence in her is based upon her amazing relationship with my children. I refuse to say that I was wrong in letting my children and her form a relationship just because we entered this rocky period in our relationship. If things end up not working out between us I am deathly afraid of the heartache it would cause my children, but this is life. There is no turning back now, We will move forward, praying together as a family, and working as one unit to becoming a close and holy family