Relatively few catholics prefer the TLM

[pnewton]

I hope so too. In fact, why not just tell a parish that they can have one TLM Mass a week without number counting? One that actually would fulfill the Sunday obligation?

If we were going back to the TLM totally, that might make sense. If things change and the Vatican did decide, I hope every one would be open to obedience. Otherwise, with this just being extraodinary form, what would be the point in forcing it. If there was no interest, the other Masses would increase in attendence and the priest might be using his time less efficiently.

 

[Brennan_Doherty]

If we were going back to the TLM totally, that might make sense. If things change and the Vatican did decide, I hope every one would be open to obedience. Otherwise, with this just being extraodinary form, what would be the point in forcing it. If there was no interest, the other Masses would increase in attendence and the priest might be using his time less efficiently.

I wouldn’t call it forcing it to allow a parish the option of having one Sunday obligation TLM a week without number counting. Forcing it would be what happened when the Novus Ordo was introduced.

Why do it? Well, I don’t think the liturgy which has been the embodiment of the Faith for hundreds of years really needs any justification for what I have suggested (though there is plenty). Allowing one TLM a week would actually be a much kinder, gentler option than what happened in 1969.

 

[Just_1_hr_a_wk]

I wouldn’t call it forcing it to allow a parish the option of having one Sunday obligation TLM a week without number counting. Forcing it would be what happened when the Novus Ordo was introduced.

Why do it? Well, I don’t think the liturgy which has been the embodiment of the Faith for hundreds of years really needs any justification for what I have suggested (though there is plenty). Allowing one TLM a week would actually be a much kinder, gentler option than what happened in 1969.

**
Maybe it is time to let go about what ‘happened in 1969’.**

 

[pnewton]

Why do it? Well, I don’t think the liturgy which has been the embodiment of the Faith for hundreds of years really needs any justification for what I have suggested (though there is plenty).

Well I am thankful that your extreme suggestion has not be considered by those who can change things. Considering how overworked priest are it would be weird to force on Mass that was unattended just to satisfy ultra-traditionalists that aren’t even members of the parish. On the bright side, it would be one less Mass that I would not have to bother with covering for music.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Maybe it is time to let go about what ‘happened in 1969’.

Some things you just can’t forget. Didn’t have women in gauzy flowing dresses carrying bowls of incense and wafting them down the main aisle of a cathedral in 1969. That I’d love to forget, except that I’ve been forced to see it on far too many ocassions. Some things are better not forgotten.

 

[pnewton]

Maybe it is time to let go about what ‘happened in 1969’.

We should never forget our history, but learn from it. What I find disturbing is wanting to screw with others out of revenge for what happened to you.

 

[Just_1_hr_a_wk]

We should never forget our history, but learn from it. What I find disturbing is wanting to screw with others out of revenge for what happened to you.

I find the ‘they should have consulted us’ or ‘they should have let us choose’ view 40 yrs down the road disturbing.

 

[brotherhrolf]

I find the ‘they should have consulted us’ or ‘they should have let us choose’ view 40 yrs down the road disturbing.

How much consultation went on with the “innovations” that have come about in the last forty years. Parishes have just gone ahead and do what they feel like doing or whatever “feels good”.

I think that perhaps you are laboring under the same misapprehensions that most are forty years down the line. Namely that all of us “jumped up and down” at the then New Mass. Nothing could be further from the truth. We kept our mouths shut out of obedience to HMC - at least those of us who stayed. Look how many walked out.

No, I don’t have to have the TLM although it would be nice to have it celebrated once a month in place of the OF and with full choir. I see the MP as a seed resown - with a return to the profound heritage of our Church. How many people have remarked on these fora that they had never experienced Benediction? How many times have I seen “Be Not Afraid” listed on these fora as a traditional Catholic hymn?

I consider myself to be a traditional Catholic because that is how I was raised. And there were large numbers of us then and now who lament what has happened to our Church.

 

[Just_1_hr_a_wk]

How much consultation went on with the “innovations” that have come about in the last forty years. Parishes have just gone ahead and do what they feel like doing or whatever “feels good”.

I think that perhaps you are laboring under the same misapprehensions that most are forty years down the line. Namely that all of us “jumped up and down” at the then New Mass. Nothing could be further from the truth. We kept our mouths shut out of obedience to HMC - at least those of us who stayed. Look how many walked out.

No, I don’t have to have the TLM although it would be nice to have it celebrated once a month in place of the OF and with full choir. I see the MP as a seed resown - with a return to the profound heritage of our Church. How many people have remarked on these fora that they had never experienced Benediction? How many times have I seen “Be Not Afraid” listed on these fora as a traditional Catholic hymn?

I consider myself to be a traditional Catholic because that is how I was raised. And there were large numbers of us then and now who lament what has happened to our Church.

I consider myself a traditional Catholic because I accept my role, as a lay person and recognize that the church is not a democracy. Since it is not a democracy it does not have to consult me on anything.

Down the road should a new missal be made the ordinary form I will accept that it is their role to make those decisions not mine. If down the road they bring back an all Latin mass I will attend it. I will not harbor anger over changes (and there have been some I have hated) just like I have finally learned to let go of anger over personal bad treatment by assorted priests in my life.

 

[palmas85]

Today I attended the Solemn High Mass at St Patricks in New Orleans for the Feast of the Epiphany. Of course, since relatively few people want or even attend the Traditional Mass there were only a few hardy souls there, huddled in the pews, mindlessly reciting rosaries and reading prayer books. Some were engaged in private devotions. No one understood what was going on and the priest sped through the Mass so fast, no longer than 5 minutes, I’d guess, that I was able to get to Shoneys early for a seat at the breakfast bar before the crowds hit.

Thought I’d throw that in so that the Traditional Mass haters would feel good. You know being charitable and all that good stuff,

In reality, I got there about 15 minutes before the Mass was to start and couldn’t find a parking place. When I did it was two blocks from the Church. When I got to the church there was actually a line snaking into the vestibule. Standing room only. Hundreds of people in attendance, young, old, single, families, black, white, asian, hispanic you name it. They were there, in force.

The Mass started at 9:15 and ended somewhere around 10:45 or so. I guess that Father forgot he was supposed to race through it. A pity. Due to the Mass being a Solemn High Mass they of course had the Priest, Deacon and Sub Deacon and numerous servers, many of whom were seminarians at the local Seminary, I was told, who are studying the Traditional Mass at the Seminary. They even had the traditional blessing of the chalk and distributed chalk to all who wished to bless their homes in extension of the blessing given at the Church.

A truly beautiful beautiful Mass

A shame that no one was there to see it.

And to all you haters out there, keep up the good work!! .

 

[Just_1_hr_a_wk]

Calling people ‘haters’ is getting soo old and tired.

 

[pieta05]

A shame that no one was there to see it.

And to all you haters out there, keep up the good work!! .

Obviously you never read the book…“How to win friends and influence people.”

The actual Mass sounds as though it were quite wonderful. That would have sufficed to get your point across without the vitriolic non-sense.

 

[brotherhrolf]

I heard that the Latin OF at St. Patrick’s is as crowded too. Must be a bunch of folks from BR down for the game since the MP was merely “acknowledged” here. Did they serve King Cake in the parish hall?

 

[LarryRay]

Today I attended the Solemn High Mass at St Patricks in New Orleans for the Feast of the Epiphany. Of course, since relatively few people want or even attend the Traditional Mass there were only a few hardy souls there, huddled in the pews, mindlessly reciting rosaries and reading prayer books. Some were engaged in private devotions. No one understood what was going on and the priest sped through the Mass so fast, no longer than 5 minutes, I’d guess, that I was able to get to Shoneys early for a seat at the breakfast bar before the crowds hit.

Thought I’d throw that in so that the Traditional Mass haters would feel good. You know being charitable and all that good stuff,

In reality, I got there about 15 minutes before the Mass was to start and couldn’t find a parking place. When I did it was two blocks from the Church. When I got to the church there was actually a line snaking into the vestibule. Standing room only. Hundreds of people in attendance, young, old, single, families, black, white, asian, hispanic you name it. They were there, in force.

The Mass started at 9:15 and ended somewhere around 10:45 or so. I guess that Father forgot he was supposed to race through it. A pity. Due to the Mass being a Solemn High Mass they of course had the Priest, Deacon and Sub Deacon and numerous servers, many of whom were seminarians at the local Seminary, I was told, who are studying the Traditional Mass at the Seminary. They even had the traditional blessing of the chalk and distributed chalk to all who wished to bless their homes in extension of the blessing given at the Church.

A truly beautiful beautiful Mass

Wonderful! Thanks for the report!

 

[brotherhrolf]

All jesting aside. My friend Palmas and myself are native New Orleanians. The world in which we grew up was Catholic to the core. It was not at all unusual to see people on public transportation make the sign of the cross upon passing a Church. There was the tradition of making “the nine Churches” on Good Friday. When the bells of the nearby churches tolled the noon hour, you stopped what you were doing and said the Angelus. I know y’all think I’m exaggerating but it is not the case.

Confesions were said daily at Jesuit’s (Immaculate Conception downtown). How many times did my hormonal teenage self avail myself of the sacrament? When we had mid-terms, we all saved the carfare and walked the 12 blocks downtown. We would go to Jesuit’s and make a visit to the Blessed Sacrament before we’d go to the movies. I know that y’all will think I am exaggerating but such is not the case. We DID make visits to the Blessed Sacrament…

I guess this is one of the reasons I get so upset. It was not at all unusual for members of the Confraternity of the Sacred Heart to gather at lunch in the Brother’s chapel for prayer.

With this level of devotion, do you honestly think that we really wanted to chuck everything out in favor of…

I’m not making this up. This was my adolescense. There were many of us who were pecfectly happy with HMC before 1969.

 

[brotherhrolf]

And, yeah, I am going to speak up. I had my cultural and religious roots yanked up in 1970. I’ve kept my mouth shut these last 30 some odd years. The Holy Father himself , aye, himself - says that the Mass under which I grew up is OK. Simply put, there is hope.

I’ll put this as simply and plainly as I can. We are Catholics. We have a long tradition. We are not Protestants. We do not need to adopt their style of worship. I don’t want to hold hands during the Lord’s prayer. All this greeting stuff - are we there for the congregation or are we there to worship? The music. Mon Dieu, the music.

I would be perfectly happy with an OF said reverently in the style of the TLM. No a’strummin’ and a’grinnin’. No, “turn around and introduce yourself to your neighbor”, no hand holding duing the Lord’s Prayer, etc., etc., etc. We are Catholics and we have heritage and tradition.

 

[Like]

And, yeah, I am going to speak up. I had my cultural and religious roots yanked up in 1970. I’ve kept my mouth shut these last 30 some odd years. The Holy Father himself , aye, himself - says that the Mass under which I grew up is OK. Simply put, there is hope.

I’ll put this as simply and plainly as I can. We are Catholics. We have a long tradition. We are not Protestants. We do not need to adopt their style of worship. I don’t want to hold hands during the Lord’s prayer. All this greeting stuff - are we there for the congregation or are we there to worship? The music. Mon Dieu, the music.

I would be perfectly happy with an OF said reverently in the style of the TLM. No a’strummin’ and a’grinnin’. No, “turn around and introduce yourself to your neighbor”, no hand holding duing the Lord’s Prayer, etc., etc., etc. We are Catholics and we have heritage and tradition.

AMEN! AMEN!

 

[Just_1_hr_a_wk]

All jesting aside. My friend Palmas and myself are native New Orleanians. The world in which we grew up was Catholic to the core. It was not at all unusual to see people on public transportation make the sign of the cross upon passing a Church. There was the tradition of making “the nine Churches” on Good Friday. When the bells of the nearby churches tolled the noon hour, you stopped what you were doing and said the Angelus. I know y’all think I’m exaggerating but it is not the case.

Confesions were said daily at Jesuit’s (Immaculate Conception downtown). How many times did my hormonal teenage self avail myself of the sacrament? When we had mid-terms, we all saved the carfare and walked the 12 blocks downtown. We would go to Jesuit’s and make a visit to the Blessed Sacrament before we’d go to the movies. I know that y’all will think I am exaggerating but such is not the case. We DID make visits to the Blessed Sacrament…

I guess this is one of the reasons I get so upset. It was not at all unusual for members of the Confraternity of the Sacred Heart to gather at lunch in the Brother’s chapel for prayer.

With this level of devotion, do you honestly think that we really wanted to chuck everything out in favor of…

I’m not making this up. This was my adolescense. There were many of us who were pecfectly happy with HMC before 1969.

**Did they lock the doors and keep you out of church after 1969?
Many things you had to put up with, many things you could continue privately or substitute others private practices for.

**

 

[Just_1_hr_a_wk]

And, yeah, I am going to speak up. I had my cultural and religious roots yanked up in 1970. I’ve kept my mouth shut these last 30 some odd years. The Holy Father himself , aye, himself - says that the Mass under which I grew up is OK. Simply put, there is hope.

I’ll put this as simply and plainly as I can. We are Catholics. We have a long tradition. We are not Protestants. We do not need to adopt their style of worship. I don’t want to hold hands during the Lord’s prayer. All this greeting stuff - are we there for the congregation or are we there to worship? The music. Mon Dieu, the music.

I would be perfectly happy with an OF said reverently in the style of the TLM. No a’strummin’ and a’grinnin’. No, “turn around and introduce yourself to your neighbor”, no hand holding duing the Lord’s Prayer, etc., etc., etc. We are Catholics and we have heritage and tradition.

**There are plenty of places where ‘strummin and a grinnin’ folks masses (or any folks masses) are few and far between. And they have been a rare things for ages.

Yes, there have been strange changes - but there has also been great moderation for at least 20 years.**

 

[brotherhrolf]

There are plenty of places where ‘strummin and a grinnin’ folks masses (or any folks masses) are few and far between. And they have been a rare things for ages.

Yes, there have been strange changes - but there has also been great moderation for at least 20 years.

You are blessed, my friend, if this is so. We’ve driven 25 miles for the last 25 years beyond the borders of our geographical parishes (two of them) because the contrary was true. Not three years ago I heard the a’strummin’ and a’grinnin’ version of Prepare Ye the Way of the Lord from Godspell sung as an Advent Introit in my geographic parish. I’m sorry I just don’t see the great moderation.