Relativism confused as Christianity is gaining Muslims converts.

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Saint Michael,

I have NO retort AT ALL for addressing quesitons about WHY WOMEN are stoned to death in ISLAMIC countries…

Can you help me with that “problem”?:confused:
 
A couple of thoughts. I know several people who were chaste until marriage. The OP quoted a man who seems to be looking for a servant more than a bride. In this country at least, you don’t need to worry about “most women” since you can only marry one. If you suggest that there are no chaste women then you really are not looking very hard or in the right places.

As far as “fruits” I’ll grant you that the west has problems with pornography and objectification of women but it certainly does not mean that these are problems only in the west. Forcing women to remain hidden from view is no answer to the problem and I could argue that it is worse.

What “fruits” have come from the Muslim world? Certainly not peace and prosperity, respect for human rights or the rule of law. Casting stones at any one community because of it’s obvious failings is too easy and not very productive.

In response to the poster focusing on finding a bride, why don’t you recommend that he take his concerns and fears to the Lord before the eucharist? He will find an answer there.
 
Here is the answer to my question :

You hypocrite! First remove the beam out of your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother’s eye.

There is fornication EVERYWHERE. I don’t want to use bad language, but we all know a girl can do EVERYTHING yet remain virgin…worse yet, she can lose virginity then go to the doctor for a “virginity-repair” operation and this happens A LOT in the Middle East .

Am not a westener and i don’t know what built it. If it is Christianity, then is Christianity the cause of fornication or secularism?
 
inJESUS said:
Here is the answer to my question :

You hypocrite! First remove the beam out of your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother’s eye.

There is fornication EVERYWHERE. I don’t want to use bad language, but we all know a girl can do EVERYTHING yet remain virgin…worse yet, she can lose virginity then go to the doctor for a “virginity-repair” operation and this happens A LOT in the Middle East .

Am not a westener and i don’t know what built it. If it is Christianity, then is Christianity the cause of fornication or secularism?
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Umm, I think you bring up a point here that THEY ALREADY KNOW- prostitution is the oldest profession- and it would not have been if there were NO MEN WANTING IT!!!

Your other points - make me sick, but I will pray for those women and the fact that they are in a living HELL over there…

I think this guy is looking at the benefit of the divorce process for the guy where you live…

1-2-3! Done! Face the east and say it 3 times-

yet where do they get the 3 from? Hmmm, maybe they do have a subconsious mind that believes in 3 as one???
 
Well the guy will not only enjoy easy divorce, but many women as well here and in paradise…it’s great to be a Muslim man 😉

the difference between the West and middle east is that the West does this openly, in here secretly…hush hush do everything you want then go to the doctor as if nothing happened…not only this…you see veiled women who come the Islamic neighborhood, take of the veil off, “do it” in the car, re-put the veil and go back home. I do neither generalize here not the West. It’s everywhere.
 
regarding the number 3, interesting , 3 in 1 😃 i found many examples of number 3 in Quran…
 
I would argue that CHRISTIAN morality is far superior. It also includes NOT stoning women to death. Start with that argument.
 
Saint_Michael
This is the Muslim way from what I can see:
Islam teaches that a wife is subject to punishment by her husband, beating a wife or abstaining from sexual relations with her is allowed. "As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them… " Surah 4:34
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If a woman is raped she must have 4 witnesses who actually saw the act to testify. Otherwise she is confessing to adultery. The penalty for that is death.
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This is the Christian way:
This is the Christian way: The scribes and Pharisees brought a woman along who had been caught committing adultery; and making her stand there in full view of everybody, they said to Jesus, ‘Master, this woman was caught in the very act of committing adultery, and Moses has ordered us in the Law to condemn women like this to death by stoning……. As they persisted with their question, he looked up and said. ‘If there is one of you who has not sinned, let him be the first to throw a stone at her……He looked up and said, ‘Woman, where are they: Has no one condemned you?’ ‘No one sir,’ she replied. ‘Neither do I condemn you.’ Said Jesus’ go away and don’t sin any more.
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Now ask yourself, which is showing love? Should we live in fear of getting beat up or even being put to death, or should we live with a loving fear of offending God?
If I had to give an honest assertion of Muslim women it’s that they are much more respectful of chastity and how they conduct themselves, Christian girls parade around in make-up tight pants, high heels, and their boobs showing and the Muslim women are always covered pushing a stroller and tending to their kids. I live in an area of Brooklyn that has a very high contrast of Muslims
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and
To tell you the truth, if I ever convert, it would be in an attempt to seek a muslim wife and reduce the risk of a horrible family life with an unbeliever or with a Christian wife.
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My reply to him is this: That is why its important to ask Jesus to help in finding a good Christian woman. Many men go to bars looking for a good Christian woman so what are the chances of finding one there. I’m not say that they are not there but to odds are against it. You need to know the girl that you are marrying and make sure she is a good Catholic, Christian, God-fearing woman. Do this and you reduce the risk of a horrible family life with an unbeliever. Why would I, as a Catholic, try and marry a woman who was an atheist, or anti-Catholic? I had relationships that went sour until I finally gave up, resigned myself to living the single life if God willed it , and let Him put the right woman in my path which He did.
Also, TO DENY CHRIST FOR THE SAKE OF A WOMAN, IS PUTTING OUR SOULS IN DANGER. Jesus said, if we deny Him, He will deny us before the Father. That’s scary!!! Better to enter heaven with one hand than into Gehenna with two. Better to live a single life without a woman than to deny Jesus and be sent to Gehanna because we want a “virgin”. But what about the women, don’t they deserve to have a virgin for a husband too?
Christian girls parade around in make-up tight pants, high heels, and their boobs showing
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How many “Christian” men parade around in muscle shirts, flexing their muscles, open shirts flashing their hairys chests, tight pants with the outline of the sexual organs showing through their pants, or their pants way down below their butts, trying to look cool to attract women?
 
Damascus said:
Needs a NEW THREAD since I knew you saw that one too!!!😃
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well that idea came to my mind when i was struck by many things i read…even Tawheed in Islam ( unification of God) is about number 3 hehe…well for curiosity’s sake i’ll do later a research about number 3:D
 
inJESUS said:
TobyLue, good post 👍
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As a matter of fact it is an excellent post. Finally someone points out that he is endangering his soul by convering to Islam just for the sake of a virgin. He said he had never heard of a Christian woman being a virgin at marrage, my wife was and so were several other women I know. If he spent more time at mass and less time at the bar he would propably find more virgins.
 
Lance said:
As a matter of fact it is an excellent post. Finally someone points out that he is endangering his soul by convering to Islam just for the sake of a virgin.

that’s the first thing i wrote in my first reply on this thread. I wrote :

interesting…he is selling Jesus for women benefit…didn’t Judas do this for money benefit?
He said he had never heard of a Christian woman being a virgin at marrage, my wife was and so were several other women I know. If he spent more time at mass and less time at the bar he would propably find more virgins.
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Saint_Michael said:
I don’t know, did you even read the topic, and realize this is from a guy off a Muslim message board thinking of converting to Islam? I can’t go back and say “hey guy don’t convert to Islam, western Christian women exhibit just as much morality when it comes to chastity as Muslims”. He’ll laugh at me, obviously the guys has come to the conclusion that the Christian west’s morality is hopelessly lost, and I can’t argue that fact. I need another argument to use.

If everyone’s advice is to stick your head in the sand and claim that the wests morality is fine then I really have nothing to say in the topic, there’s no dialoguing with people who refuse to see an obvious truth, and can’t see the actual point of the post.
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Whoa now, I was just looking for more insight regarding the man you speak of. That’s all. 😦
 
mrs_abbott said:
Whoa now, I was just looking for more insight regarding the man you speak of. That’s all. 😦
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I apologize, I was getting atacked and thought you were just pilling on, I was too harsh with you and I’m sorry.
 
TobyLue said:
Saint_Michael
This is the Muslim way from what I can see: This is the Christian way:Now ask yourself, which is showing love? Should we live in fear of getting beat up or even being put to death, or should we live with a loving fear of offending God?andMy reply to him is this: That is why its important to ask Jesus to help in finding a good Christian woman. Many men go to bars looking for a good Christian woman so what are the chances of finding one there. I’m not say that they are not there but to odds are against it. You need to know the girl that you are marrying and make sure she is a good Catholic, Christian, God-fearing woman. Do this and you reduce the risk of a horrible family life with an unbeliever. Why would I, as a Catholic, try and marry a woman who was an atheist, or anti-Catholic? I had relationships that went sour until I finally gave up, resigned myself to living the single life if God willed it , and let Him put the right woman in my path which He did.
Also, TO DENY CHRIST FOR THE SAKE OF A WOMAN, IS PUTTING OUR SOULS IN DANGER. Jesus said, if we deny Him, He will deny us before the Father. That’s scary!!! Better to enter heaven with one hand than into Gehenna with two. Better to live a single life without a woman than to deny Jesus and be sent to Gehanna because we want a “virgin”. But what about the women, don’t they deserve to have a virgin for a husband too?
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It is a good post, and I understand a “practicing Christian” would abide by the commandments. But then that means in our western society there are very few practicing Christians. Does that mean that our society is hopelessly broken and apostate? I think that’s what the guy is saying. Every Christian society seems totally lost Canda, Americas, Europe totally secular, and ridden with sexual deviancy not since since anciet Rome. And the Muslims at least do daily prayer, remain chaste prior to marriage as a rule like we did even 60 years ago (not 100% but I would think most people could admit their track record is significantly better than the western societies).
TobyLue said:
?How many “Christian” men parade around in muscle shirts, flexing their muscles, open shirts flashing their hairys chests, tight pants with the outline of the sexual organs showing through their pants, or their pants way down below their butts, trying to look cool to attract women?
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I don’t think many, most mens styles are traditional jeans/khakis and collared shirts for night life. Work styles are suits or busniess casual (khaki and collared shirt, maybe a blazer), and when relaxing jeans and t-shirt. The guy you described would fit in nicely in Greenwhich village, not so much anywhere else. Women’s styles here are made to accentuate their breasts, butt, or legs, and that’s the way it is, even for church and work women can’t keep their breasts in their shirt, or their shorts or skirts from exposing their buttocks when they sit down. Women are so overly sexualized here, that it is sickening. I have a baby on the way when I found out it was a daughter I cried for a week. My daughter doesn’t stand a chance in this society.
 
I think it is propaganda to talk about Muslim women being more virtious. As I pointed out being killed is a great way to keep people in line. I know some very good and holy young men and women who are virgins. They are holy not because if they get caught they will be murdered, but because they want to do the right thing. In Islamic societies they have many problems, but will never talk about them or admit to them. They pretend all is well.

Parents are the key. Raise your daughter properly. Teach her right from wrong. Watch the influences on her. Tell me, if you see her with a boy unattended at age 12 would you kill her? That is how they do it. Is that really better? Do not idolize Islamic culture. You would not want to live that way. Why do you think so many of them want to come here?
 
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