Religion of peace?? Please explain.

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in badr war,muhamed went to loot the cravan of abu sufian,so who was the attacker?muhmed or pagans?if any muslim will kill then ppl address them they wanted to save their life…but if any christian will protest them then ppl say that he is a bigot christian.so all innocent ppl are just muslims,victims r muslim,peacefull(or piecefull?)r also muslims,correct?what a poor thinking.actually all muslims think that muslim ppl can’t make any mistake!
 
There is no plank in my eye - I cannot say the same for you.
Do you even know what I’m quoting and what it means?
As for Hussein - I cannot believe that you defend him.
I didn’t defend his actions as good. I said his actions were necessary to bring Iraq under control, as your daddy Reagan argued. That is why the current government in Iraq, and the US military are doing many of the same things he did.
I don’t know where you hear your news - but Iraq is not only doing better economically, but their military and police are taking over much more. I guess it is dead silence for the left on this now because their agenda of ‘I hate Bush’ can’t be done with Iraq anymore. So, you tell me old mantras of the left.
If all the violence in Iraq stopped tomorrow, our actions still would not have been justified, necessary, and most certainly, moral.
Al Sadr is in hiding, as all cockroaches do when the light gets turned on. He is an Iranian puppet who knows his toady self will be one big target.
He will be one of the most powerful men in Iraq when we leave.
As for the Shah - that was a Carter debacle. Yep, you certainly proved your case there - NOT! Yes, the Shah was propped up by us and had to talk out of both sides of his face like Musharraf has to now.
The coup of Mossadeq, 1953, smarty pants.

“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, “Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,” when you yourself fail to see the plank in you own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”

No doubt Muslims have serious problems. But we do not have control over the actions of Muslims–at least we shouldn’t. What should concern us are our own actions and whether they are in accordance with what we have learned through Christ Jesus.
 
She did not offer, in the OP and it’s continuation, a thoughtful, intelligent critique of Islamic Jurisprudence or just war theory, she libeled all Muslims.

I find some of Judaism’s blatant ethnocentric teachings unappealing, that is an acadamic dispute for me to have with Jewish theologians. If I went on a vulgar anti-semetic rant, I could not hide behind my legitimate grievances with some structural elements of the religions as justification for my slander against all Jews
its’ always wrong to label all people by the same name or adjective…and it is true that there are many wonderful Muslims and very bad ones…i live among them and interact daily with them…however, it is true that Islamic ideologies are dangerous to non-Islamic cultures. It is not bigotry, it is not necessarily hatred. I live with people who have a blinded hatred to Jews and they have no problem burning everyone alive in this country to annihilate Jews,…they simply have no problem and don’t care as long as they’re killing Jews…and i live among Muslims who have an obsesseion with Imara…they want to turn Lebanon into an Islamic Imara ruled by the Sharia where we become second class citizens in our own home. What am telling you does not negate the fact that these might, in every day life, very nice people…but their ideology is brining destruction to my country…and this applies to many other countrie. It is time to differenciate between nice humans and ideologies …a nice man might very well be a bomb to you because of his ideologies and beliefs…
 
I was speaking of the Muslims in Iraq. What happened to you on 9/11? My guess is that you probably sat somewhere watching the news. You sat and watched the US get seriously attacked on its own soil for the first time in decades. You didn’t know a single person that died there. The vast majority of Americans were essentially unaffected in their daily lives by the events of 9/11. How many Iraqi’s have lost their homes? How many Iraqi’s have lost a family member? a friend? The fact is that the vast majority of Iraqi’s have had their lives upended by you and I.
Although your above quote was not addressed to me, I would like to tell you where I was on 9/11.

I had woken up a little late to get to work on time and decided to take car service into Manhattan. I had fallen asleep with the TV on and when I looked at it, I thought I was watching a movie, then thought I was seeing an accident. Everyone did. I called my office and they said everything was fine. I hung up with the words, “See you soon.”

I didn’t hear from any co-workers for a day and half, and didn’t know if they were alive or dead. (I didn’t see them again for 3 weeks.)

I quickly got ready for work, and took another look at the TV. I was in time to see the second plane hit. I was on time to see the neighboorhood in which I’ve worked for 35 years covered in dust, ashes and ruin.

I called my office again, but they had already evacuated.

A close friend called to see if I had heard the news. We stayed on the phone together as I watched the two buildings that stood diagonally across the street from my office, the two buildings I had walked past on 9/10/01… I watched as they crumbled to the ground.

That night, some friends and I sat over coffee in a nearby diner, not yet willing to go to our respective homes. As we sat there, five different people came in proclaiming to have witnessed celebratory dancing in front of the local mosque - which is one block from my home.

In the aftermath, I discovered that I knew two of the dead – both women who had sung with me in the choir… one of them had been waiting for a bus. She was hit and covered with jet fuel. She was burned over 90% of her body, and lived for about 6 weeks before she died.

Our office re-opened on 10/2/01 when electricity was restored to our building - which was nearly impossible to access due to the gauntlet of police and military personel, and ID had to be produced time and time again, while we were encouraged to go about business “as usual.”

The smell in the air was and still remains indescribable. Every time a truck passed, when you were outdoors, the dust would waft up and cover everything. I STILL WHEEZE and never had lung trouble before.

And as I sat in my office trying to return to “business as usual,” every time a siren wailed, I cringed because it meant only one thing: another fallen firefighter or police officer was found… or a piece of him or her.

Then, every day, I would go home to an Arabic Muslim neighborhood where the prevailing Moslem sentiment was, and which I heard time and time again, and I QUOTE: “Oh yes, we think it [9/11] was a very bad thing, but America should not help Israel.” Not once did I hear, “I’m sorry.”

You know, I’ve read through the Bible several times, and have been reading the Bible since childhood, and I have never, ever, found an instruction that Christians are supposed to be doormats.
Matthew 10:13 – If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you.
Matthew 10:34 – Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.
Luke 12 – 51 Do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division. 52 For from now on five in one house will be divided: three against two, and two against three. 53 Father will be divided against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law.
Jesus spoke of division between believers and non-believers. Until Muslims declare their belief in Jesus as Lord, they are non-believers.

Peaceful non-believers are not a problem. How many peaceful non-believers are alive today! Hindus, Buddhists, athiests even. It seems that the only group of non-believers who are violent and enjoy death, destruction, rape, pedophilia, slavery, etc., are Muslims.

Interestingly, they never refute charges made against them other than to claim that those who make the charges don’t know what they’re talking about. I think that all those they have killed will refute that allegation on Judgment Day.
 
No you didn’t, you posted a tragic story and attempted to use these petty atrocities to stir up hatred and then laced your OP with cheep polemics and strawmen.

You spew all sorts of libel, classifying theft, murder, destruction et cetera as simply a continuation of typical Muslim behavior , and now have somehow summoned up the gall to assign some higher motive to your vulgarity?

I’m sure you are overall a good person, however even good people like yourself can be vehicles of terrible hatred and suffering. You smile at your neighbors, and then not only inadvertently advance, but actively propagate the atmosphere of fear, hatred, and suspicion in this country that often makes Muslims feel like second class citizens. Generalized platitudes are easy, understanding and love are much more difficult, but inevitable much more profitable
You and your fellow “Islamish” friends can believe whatever you want about me. I don’t care.

The bottom line is that you don’t refute any charges made against Muslims because (a) you refuse to, and (b) you can’t.
 
Although your above quote was not addressed to me, I would like to tell you where I was on 9/11.

I had woken up a little late to get to work on time and decided to take car service into Manhattan. I had fallen asleep with the TV on and when I looked at it, I thought I was watching a movie, then thought I was seeing an accident. Everyone did. I called my office and they said everything was fine. I hung up with the words, “See you soon.”

I didn’t hear from any co-workers for a day and half, and didn’t know if they were alive or dead. (I didn’t see them again for 3 weeks.)

I quickly got ready for work, and took another look at the TV. I was in time to see the second plane hit. I was on time to see the neighboorhood in which I’ve worked for 35 years covered in dust, ashes and ruin.

I called my office again, but they had already evacuated.

A close friend called to see if I had heard the news. We stayed on the phone together as I watched the two buildings that stood diagonally across the street from my office, the two buildings I had walked past on 9/10/01… I watched as they crumbled to the ground.

That night, some friends and I sat over coffee in a nearby diner, not yet willing to go to our respective homes. As we sat there, five different people came in proclaiming to have witnessed celebratory dancing in front of the local mosque - which is one block from my home.

In the aftermath, I discovered that I knew two of the dead – both women who had sung with me in the choir… one of them had been waiting for a bus. She was hit and covered with jet fuel. She was burned over 90% of her body, and lived for about 6 weeks before she died.

Our office re-opened on 10/2/01 when electricity was restored to our building - which was nearly impossible to access due to the gauntlet of police and military personel, and ID had to be produced time and time again, while we were encouraged to go about business “as usual.”

The smell in the air was and still remains indescribable. Every time a truck passed, when you were outdoors, the dust would waft up and cover everything. I STILL WHEEZE and never had lung trouble before.

And as I sat in my office trying to return to “business as usual,” every time a siren wailed, I cringed because it meant only one thing: another fallen firefighter or police officer was found… or a piece of him or her.

Then, every day, I would go home to an Arabic Muslim neighborhood where the prevailing Moslem sentiment was, and which I heard time and time again, and I QUOTE: “Oh yes, we think it [9/11] was a very bad thing, but America should not help Israel.” Not once did I hear, “I’m sorry.”

You know, I’ve read through the Bible several times, and have been reading the Bible since childhood, and I have never, ever, found an instruction that Christians are supposed to be doormats.
I’m sorry

Does that help?

I once met a women who went through, at the hands of a people, more than you or I could possibly fathom, she survived the ordeal and shortly after was in DC when she heard two women speaking the language of the people why victimized her and her friends, she got up to yell at them but suddenly realized that what she was doing was wrong, so long as she held hate in her heart she was going down the wrong path, her hatred would not bring back he friends or return her lost innocence or murdered family, she learned that only through forgiveness and love could she survive.

There was once a great Muslim mystic, she was kidnapped and sold into prostitution, she was sexually, emotionally, and physically abused, humiliated, and disgraced in every way conceivable during the decades she was forced into prostitution. Yet she never lost her love of God and forgave all the men who wronged he.
 
You and your fellow “Islamish” friends can believe whatever you want about me. I don’t care.

The bottom line is that you don’t refute any charges made against Muslims because (a) you refuse to, and (b) you can’t.
What would you like me to refute?
 
gemmarose,do you know that what muslims think about the tragedy of 9/11?they think that its a jew conspiracy!!what a terrible false blame against those peace loving ppl jew(ya i believe that jews were always peace loving).so its clear that muslims are not peace loving though they shout that they are only peace loving.quran has many verses that taught killing violence and hate to non muslims.but some muslims deny it by editing quran.🤷
 
finally i want to say quran just taught killing non muslims,violence,polygamy(for men),not to take any non muslims as friend etc.quran has many historical&scientific error;we gave many verses as reference in other threads but muslims tried to explain it in their own way by editing quran.so i will never repeat those verses again in near future.but its true that islam just taught hate&killing.and muslims are succesfully doing those.
 
What would you like me to refute?
some Muslims claim that you are not supposed to use violence unless attacked in your religion. Am not sure who attacked Muslims during all those futuhat lead by the khalifs after Muhammad’s death to conquer and subdue non-muslims, but for arguments’ sake, let us accept this claim…what is an attck to your faith? a satire about Muhammad? cartoon about Muhammad? not allowing you to practice sharia in non-Islamic lands?
 
You know, I’ve read through the Bible several times, and have been reading the Bible since childhood, and I have never, ever, found an instruction that Christians are supposed to be doormats.
Doormats, no. Non-violent, yes.
Matthew 10:13 – If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you.
Doesn’t advocate violence.
Matthew 10:34 – Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.
This is speaking of the persecutions of his followers. Remember, we are to be persecuted, not the persecutors.
Luke 12 – 51 Do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division. 52 For from now on five in one house will be divided: three against two, and two against three. 53 Father will be divided against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law.
Nothing in here that allows us to use violence to solve our problems. You will not find any verses in the Gospels which allow for us to attack Muslims. In fact, you should see the opposite the whole way through.

I’m sorry for your loss. Nevertheless, as I was saying in the post you referenced, for Muslims in Iraq everyday is 9/11. and why? because you and I have failed to “turn the other cheek” “love our enemies” and “pray for those who persecute us”.
 
You and your fellow “Islamish” friends can believe whatever you want about me. I don’t care.

The bottom line is that you don’t refute any charges made against Muslims because (a) you refuse to, and (b) you can’t.
Be careful - this guy is reporting people. It seems he is unable to handle the problems with islam that people know about. I sent a rebuttle with proof that this guy is name calling and such.
 
:eek:

I originally called you a “liar”, “Bigot” and a few other rude things, but I’m not going to lower myself to the sewer in which you reside, you are worthy neither of being taken seriously as a individual with a credible opinion, nor as a plausible representative of the Christian faith. I will be adding you to my ignore list and I would encourage everyone else to do the same
Good, I suppose it is like putting your hands over your ears and closing your eyes while saying, ‘lalalalalalala…’. Hide from the facts.
 
I would like to hear an answer to that also. I believe that one of the greatest threats to Christianity comes from Islam.
As I was saying in a thread I started lately, I don’t believe it comes from Islam itself, but from a number of Muslim state leaders and of imams who have used and are still using Islam for their selfish interests, especially to satisfy their big ambitions for power over the people and control of the events. In other words, these are playing God misusing Islam to excuse or rather justify their rants.
I once was tempted to believe R_not at least in part, but thanks to a Jewish translator of the Qur’an, who even though he’s a non-Muslim recognizes Islam as a true religion. When seen in their context (historical and eventful as well as within the text), André Chouraqui didn’t find ANYTHING in the Qur’an itself that would contradict the Ten Commandments or that would condone any violence toward non-Muslims because they would not follow Islam.
And it took him years to complete his translation, so I think he did a very serious job worth of our consideration, and thus his comments seem to me trustworthy and reliable.
 
Good, I suppose it is like putting your hands over your ears and closing your eyes while saying, ‘lalalalalalala…’. Hide from the facts.
What I just said in the previous post could explain all the negative told about Islam… that, and early biased translations designed to keep anybody to ever want to become a Muslim. Even though where their dismissing of Jesus as God the Son (or Son of God) would have sufficed to any basically-informed Christian!
 
As I was saying in a thread I started lately, I don’t believe it comes from Islam itself, but from a number of Muslim state leaders and of imams who have used and are still using Islam for their selfish interests, especially to satisfy their big ambitions for power over the people and control of the events. In other words, these are playing God misusing Islam to excuse or rather justify their rants.
I once was tempted to believe R_not at least in part, but thanks to a Jewish translator of the Qur’an, who even though he’s a non-Muslim recognizes Islam as a true religion. When seen in their context (historical and eventful as well as within the text), André Chouraqui didn’t find ANYTHING in the Qur’an itself that would contradict the Ten Commandments or that would condone any violence toward non-Muslims because they would not follow Islam.
And it took him years to complete his translation, so I think he did a very serious job worth of our consideration, and thus his comments seem to me trustworthy and reliable.
You need to read the koran and hadiths for yourself. There are apologists. And the definition of so many words are different for muslims than for us, or any non-believer, as they might call us - or infidel or kufir.

Your explanation does not explain that once muslims feel they have enough of them in a country - the violence always starts against non-muslims while no massive numbers of ‘moderates’ do anything.

Sorry, but islam is a religion based on the arabic moon god - al-ilah, the religion that mohammed belonged to when he was alive. This in itself doesn’t make islam a non-religioin. What does though is its violence against non-muslims, and its imperialistic goals - that it succeeds in doing because of apologists like the one(s) you mention.

Read for yourself.
 
R_not,you are correct.because pre islamic arabs also worshiped allah as the chief god with other 360 gods.so i also think that allah is a pagan god.you can also claim allah as al-lah;like al-lat,al-ujja etc.pre islamic name like abdullah(slave of allah)etc also proved that allah was pre islamic pagan god.though muhamed took many things from bible,forged bible&wrote his quran but i think allah didn’t come from eloha.allah is originaly pagan god.
 
As I was saying in a thread I started lately, I don’t believe it comes from Islam itself, but from a number of Muslim state leaders and of imams who have used and are still using Islam for their selfish interests, especially to satisfy their big ambitions for power over the people and control of the events. In other words, these are playing God misusing Islam to excuse or rather justify their rants.
I once was tempted to believe R_not at least in part, but thanks to a Jewish translator of the Qur’an, who even though he’s a non-Muslim recognizes Islam as a true religion. When seen in their context (historical and eventful as well as within the text), André Chouraqui didn’t find ANYTHING in the Qur’an itself that would contradict the Ten Commandments or that would condone any violence toward non-Muslims because they would not follow Islam.
And it took him years to complete his translation, so I think he did a very serious job worth of our consideration, and thus his comments seem to me trustworthy and reliable.
Hi Lapell What makes you think that Chouraqui’s version is more authentic than those by Yusufali, Pickthal, and Shakir, for instance?

Vickie
 
Doormats, no. Non-violent, yes.

Doesn’t advocate violence.

This is speaking of the persecutions of his followers. Remember, we are to be persecuted, not the persecutors.

Nothing in here that allows us to use violence to solve our problems. You will not find any verses in the Gospels which allow for us to attack Muslims. In fact, you should see the opposite the whole way through.

I’m sorry for your loss. Nevertheless, as I was saying in the post you referenced, for Muslims in Iraq everyday is 9/11. and why? because you and I have failed to “turn the other cheek” “love our enemies” and “pray for those who persecute us”.
Jesus told us to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us, but he never told us to love that which is evil! Turning the other cheek does not mean that we don’t have the right to defend ourselves from those who want to destroy us and everything we believe in!

Vickie
 
Slave raiding and kidnapping non-muslim women for harems has been Islamic practice since the religion began. It is well-documented. The caliph and Sultan’s harems were full of kinapped Christian girls, forcefully converted to Islam.
There you have it: the caliph and the Sultan.
What were they, if not Muslim state leaders? Chouraqui wasn’t limiting his scope to the 20th and 21st centuries!..
 
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