Religious affections and love for God

[Reformed]

I want to discuss how biblical theology grows our religious affections for God. Biblical truth when received, causes us to grow in our love for God, and enables us to fight the good fight of faith. These doctrinal debates between historic Protestantism and Roman Catholicism are really about knowing God and growing in greater affections for Him.

Let’s start with justification and the implications of both Protestant and Catholic positions. Thereafter, once we understand each other’s beliefs on justification, let’s explore how these mutually exclusive beliefs play out in the Christian life. Which position will grow us in greater affection and love for God? Here is a very short article of the Protestant position. Maybe someone can post a very short work on the Catholic position of justification?

banneroftruth.org/pages/a…detail.php?774

 

[Reuben_J]

I want to discuss how biblical theology grows our religious affections for God. Biblical truth when received, causes us to grow in our love for God, and enables us to fight the good fight of faith. These doctrinal debates between historic Protestantism and Roman Catholicism are really about knowing God and growing in greater affections for Him.

Let’s start with justification and the implications of both Protestant and Catholic positions. Thereafter, once we understand each other’s beliefs on justification, let’s explore how these mutually exclusive beliefs play out in the Christian life. Which position will grow us in greater affection and love for God? Here is a very short article of the Protestant position. Maybe someone can post a very short work on the Catholic position of justification?

banneroftruth.org/pages/a…detail.php?774

Being not a theologian myself, what comes to my mind right now is, faith without action is a dead faith.

 

[ncgolf]

This from New Advent newadvent.org/cathen/06701a.htm

“The Protestant conception of justification boasts of three characteristics: absolute certainty (certitudo), complete uniformity in all the justified (aequalitas), unforfeitableness (inamissibilitas). According to the teaching of the Church, sanctifying grace has the opposite characteristics: uncertainty (incertitudo), inequality (inaequalitas), and amissibility (amissibilitas).”

It is not the love of God which is the question … no one doubts your love of God … what the question is how and what has God revealed to us the truth about his plan of salvation and how we approach our faith based on what truly has been revealed.

The how is the Church, neither Scriputre alone nor Tradition alone nor Magesterium alone, and the what is an inerrant understanding of God’s revelation.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

. Maybe someone can post a very short work on the Catholic position of justification?

banneroftruth.org/pages/a…detail.php?774

CHAPTER THREE
GOD’S SALVATION: LAW AND GRACE

ARTICLE 2
GRACE AND JUSTIFICATION

I. JUSTIFICATION

1987 The grace of the Holy Spirit has the power to justify us, that is, to cleanse us from our sins and to communicate to us “the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ” and through Baptism:34

But if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him. For we know that Christ being raised from the dead will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. The death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves as dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.35
1988 Through the power of the Holy Spirit we take part in Christ’s Passion by dying to sin, and in his Resurrection by being born to a new life; we are members of his Body which is the Church, branches grafted onto the vine which is himself:36

[God] gave himself to us through his Spirit. By the participation of the Spirit, we become communicants in the divine nature. . . . For this reason, those in whom the Spirit dwells are divinized.37
1989 The first work of the grace of the Holy Spirit is conversion, effecting justification in accordance with Jesus’ proclamation at the beginning of the Gospel: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."38 Moved by grace, man turns toward God and away from sin, thus accepting forgiveness and righteousness from on high. "Justification is not only the remission of sins, but also the sanctification and renewal of the interior man.39

1990 Justification detaches man from sin which contradicts the love of God, and purifies his heart of sin. Justification follows upon God’s merciful initiative of offering forgiveness. It reconciles man with God. It frees from the enslavement to sin, and it heals.

1991 Justification is at the same time the acceptance of God’s righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ. Righteousness (or “justice”) here means the rectitude of divine love. With justification, faith, hope, and charity are poured into our hearts, and obedience to the divine will is granted us.

1992 Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ who offered himself on the cross as a living victim, holy and pleasing to God, and whose blood has become the instrument of atonement for the sins of all men. Justification is conferred in Baptism, the sacrament of faith. It conforms us to the righteousness of God, who makes us inwardly just by the power of his mercy. Its purpose is the glory of God and of Christ, and the gift of eternal life:40

But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from law, although the law and the prophets bear witness to it, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as an expiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins; it was to prove at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he justifies him who has faith in Jesus.41
1993 Justification establishes cooperation between God’s grace and man’s freedom. On man’s part it is expressed by the assent of faith to the Word of God, which invites him to conversion, and in the cooperation of charity with the prompting of the Holy Spirit who precedes and preserves his assent:

When God touches man’s heart through the illumination of the Holy Spirit, man himself is not inactive while receiving that inspiration, since he could reject it; and yet, without God’s grace, he cannot by his own free will move himself toward justice in God’s sight.42
1994 Justification is the most excellent work of God’s love made manifest in Christ Jesus and granted by the Holy Spirit. It is the opinion of St. Augustine that “the justification of the wicked is a greater work than the creation of heaven and earth,” because "heaven and earth will pass away but the salvation and justification of the elect . . . will not pass away."43 He holds also that the justification of sinners surpasses the creation of the angels in justice, in that it bears witness to a greater mercy.

1995 The Holy Spirit is the master of the interior life. By giving birth to the "inner man,"44 justification entails the sanctification of his whole being:

Just as you once yielded your members to impurity and to greater and greater iniquity, so now yield your members to righteousness for sanctification. . . . But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the return you get is sanctification and its end, eternal life.45

 

[Reformed]

Being not a theologian myself, what comes to my mind right now is, faith without action is a dead faith.

Faith can be also mean trust or believe in something. Faith has an object. We cannot have faith in the idea faith. What is your faith grounded in, or what is the object of your faith?

 

[Reformed]

This from New Advent newadvent.org/cathen/06701a.htm

“The Protestant conception of justification boasts of three characteristics: absolute certainty (certitudo), complete uniformity in all the justified (aequalitas), unforfeitableness (inamissibilitas). According to the teaching of the Church, sanctifying grace has the opposite characteristics: uncertainty (incertitudo), inequality (inaequalitas), and amissibility (amissibilitas).”

It is not the love of God which is the question … no one doubts your love of God … what the question is how and what has God revealed to us the truth about his plan of salvation and how we approach our faith based on what truly has been revealed.

The how is the Church, neither Scriputre alone nor Tradition alone nor Magesterium alone, and the what is an inerrant understanding of God’s revelation.

Thank you for the wonderful post. Here is a section for your link. In this particular thread, I think it is essential that we understand each other’s position for their hope in Christ. Before we discuss the practical implications of our theologies, I want to make sure everybody understands the two mutually exclusive positions on justification. Why have we gone from enmity and rebellion with this Holy and just God to friend, and adoption to this same Holy and righteous God? The answer is found in the gospel of God’s grace and the heart of the gospel which is justification, and the biblical understanding of atonement. Do you mind posting a summary of your Catholic hope? What is the object of your faith, and the grounds and contents of your faith and hope?

“The Catholic idea maintains that the formal cause of justification does not consist in an exterior imputation of the justice of Christ, but in a real, interior sanctification effected by grace, which abounds in the soul and makes it permanently holy before God (cf. Trent, Sess. VI, cap. vii; can. xi). Although the sinner is justified by the justice of Christ, inasmuch as the Redeemer has merited for him the grace of justification (causa meritoria), nevertheless he is formally justified and made holy by his own personal justice and holiness (causa formalis), just as a philosopher by his own inherent learning becomes a scholar, not, however, by any exterior imputation of the wisdom of God (Trent, Sess. VI, can. x). To this idea of inherent holiness which theologians call sanctifying grace are we safely conducted by the words of Holy Writ.”.

 

[Reformed]

CHAPTER THREE
GOD’S SALVATION: LAW AND GRACE

ARTICLE 2
GRACE AND JUSTIFICATION

I. JUSTIFICATION

1987 The grace of the Holy Spirit has the power to justify us, that is, to cleanse us from our sins and to communicate to us “the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ” and through Baptism:34

But if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him. For we know that Christ being raised from the dead will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. The death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves as dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.35
1988 Through the power of the Holy Spirit we take part in Christ’s Passion by dying to sin, and in his Resurrection by being born to a new life; we are members of his Body which is the Church, branches grafted onto the vine which is himself:36

[God] gave himself to us through his Spirit. By the participation of the Spirit, we become communicants in the divine nature. . . . For this reason, those in whom the Spirit dwells are divinized.37
1989 The first work of the grace of the Holy Spirit is conversion, effecting justification in accordance with Jesus’ proclamation at the beginning of the Gospel: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."38 Moved by grace, man turns toward God and away from sin, thus accepting forgiveness and righteousness from on high. "Justification is not only the remission of sins, but also the sanctification and renewal of the interior man.39

1990 Justification detaches man from sin which contradicts the love of God, and purifies his heart of sin. Justification follows upon God’s merciful initiative of offering forgiveness. It reconciles man with God. It frees from the enslavement to sin, and it heals.

1991 Justification is at the same time the acceptance of God’s righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ. Righteousness (or “justice”) here means the rectitude of divine love. With justification, faith, hope, and charity are poured into our hearts, and obedience to the divine will is granted us.

1992 Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ who offered himself on the cross as a living victim, holy and pleasing to God, and whose blood has become the instrument of atonement for the sins of all men. Justification is conferred in Baptism, the sacrament of faith. It conforms us to the righteousness of God, who makes us inwardly just by the power of his mercy. Its purpose is the glory of God and of Christ, and the gift of eternal life:40

But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from law, although the law and the prophets bear witness to it, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as an expiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins; it was to prove at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he justifies him who has faith in Jesus.41
1993 Justification establishes cooperation between God’s grace and man’s freedom. On man’s part it is expressed by the assent of faith to the Word of God, which invites him to conversion, and in the cooperation of charity with the prompting of the Holy Spirit who precedes and preserves his assent:

When God touches man’s heart through the illumination of the Holy Spirit, man himself is not inactive while receiving that inspiration, since he could reject it; and yet, without God’s grace, he cannot by his own free will move himself toward justice in God’s sight.42
1994 Justification is the most excellent work of God’s love made manifest in Christ Jesus and granted by the Holy Spirit. It is the opinion of St. Augustine that “the justification of the wicked is a greater work than the creation of heaven and earth,” because "heaven and earth will pass away but the salvation and justification of the elect . . . will not pass away."43 He holds also that the justification of sinners surpasses the creation of the angels in justice, in that it bears witness to a greater mercy.

1995 The Holy Spirit is the master of the interior life. By giving birth to the "inner man,"44 justification entails the sanctification of his whole being:

Just as you once yielded your members to impurity and to greater and greater iniquity, so now yield your members to righteousness for sanctification. . . . But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the return you get is sanctification and its end, eternal life.45

Woud you agree that what a Protestant calls sanctification or the transformation process of becoming more like Christ is the basis of the Catholic’s justification?

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Woud you agree that what a Protestant calls sanctification or the transformation process of becoming more like Christ is the basis of the Catholic’s justification?

That would be my guess.

I think the Catholic use of the word is more in line with scripture:

James 2

24You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

 

[Reformed]

That would be my guess.

I think the Catholic use of the word is more in line with scripture:

 

[ncgolf]

Do you mind posting a summary of your Catholic hope? What is the object of your faith, and the grounds and contents of your faith and hope?

Yesterdays Gospel reading provides a short but appropriate response… I will use Christ’s response to what is the greatest law found in Matthew 22:37-39.

37 “You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. 38 This is the greatest and the first commandment.
39 The second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

From this all else falls into place.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

The Apostle James uses justification in a much different way. They are both important, but are not used in the same way for spiritual truth. You actually need to take James 2:24 in proper context of dead faith or an unconverted faith which demons posses and profess.

How do we identify dead faith? How does God identify it?

Jesus tells us in Matthew 25.

The Righteousness of God Through Faith

But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.

When Paul is referring to the law here he is speaking of Jewish Law. Jesus tells us that we must obey him in order to remain in his love. Do you agree that there is a difference between following Jewish Law and obeying Jesus?

Abraham Justified by Faith

What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:

“Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
and whose sins are covered;
blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”

What if after being forgiven and sanctified, we reject our faith?

Hebrews 10:29 “How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by those who have spurned the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant by which they were sanctified, and outraged the Spirit?”

2 Timothy 2:12 “If we endure, we shall also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us”.

2 Peter 2:20-21 “They were made free from the evil in the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. But if they return to evil things and those things control them, then it is worse for them than it was before. Yes, it would be better for them to have never known the right way than to know it and to turn away from the holy teaching that was given to them.”

Matthew 10:22 "And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.

 

[ralphinal]

Is this another “let’s dicuss” but any and all non-Calvinistic understanding, no matter how well supported by Bible quotes or other writings, are dismissed at once as being wrong and non-Biblical?

 

[fhansen]

Woud you agree that what a Protestant calls sanctification or the transformation process of becoming more like Christ is the basis of the Catholic’s justification?

Yes

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

What if after being forgiven and sanctified, we reject our faith?

Hebrews 10:29 “How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by those who have spurned the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant by which they were sanctified, and outraged the Spirit?”

2 Timothy 2:12 “If we endure, we shall also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us”.

2 Peter 2:20-21 “They were made free from the evil in the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. But if they return to evil things and those things control them, then it is worse for them than it was before. Yes, it would be better for them to have never known the right way than to know it and to turn away from the holy teaching that was given to them.”

Matthew 10:22 "And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.

 

[ryanoneil]

gracesermons.com/robbeeee/imputed.html

For Rome God both makes just and declares just. For Protestants God both makes just and declares just – but not in the same way. For Rome the declaration of justice follows the making inwardly just of the regenerate sinner. For the Reformation the declaration of justice follows the imputation of Christ’s righteousness to the regenerated sinner.

In Reformed theology is someone ever actually made righteous?

 

[Reformed]

gracesermons.com/robbeeee/imputed.html

In Reformed theology is someone ever actually made righteous?

Sure, in the process of sanctification but not in the doctrine of justification. If a person who is declared righteous on the basis of Jesus Christ alone is not becoming more righteous or like Christ, then we have to question if that person was ever justified in the first place. There is no justification without sanctification. Try this link since the link in the OP isn’t working. It is not the same article, but we need to properly understand our differences to have a good discussion.

banneroftruth.org/pages/articles/article_detail.php?1477

 

[ryanoneil]

Sure, in the process of sanctification but not in the doctrine of justification. If a person who is declared righteous on the basis of Jesus Christ alone is not becoming more righteous or like Christ, then we have to question if that person was ever justified in the first place. There is no justification without sanctification.

I don’t think you are suggesting justification and sanctification have to happen simultaniously, but why would justification be dependent on sanctification?

Shouldn’t it be the other way around. There is no sanctification without justification?

Try this link since the link in the OP isn’t working. It is not the same article, but we need to properly understand our differences to have a good discussion.

banneroftruth.org/pages/articles/article_detail.php?1477

I suggest you use one of the other links you gave me. This one is so biased it is sickening. Maybe this one which I’m halfway finished reading.

findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3817/is_200406/ai_n9456267/print

 

[guanophore]

:dancing:

I want to discuss how biblical theology grows our religious affections for God.

I just read a post from you about how we are in a father / child relationship with God. When you think about how children grow in affection for their parents, it is based upon some sort of cognitive mindset or rational structure? If this is what you think about kids, it is no wonder your relationships with others are so warped.

And what is “religious affection”???

Children are affectionate with their parents because they experience love with them. It is not related to theological constructs.

Biblical truth when received, causes us to grow in our love for God, and enables us to fight the good fight of faith.

If you are trying to say that understanding who God is, and understanding who we are in relation to God then I agree this knowledge will improve our ability to grow spiritually. However, none of the is dependent upon a bible. Grandmothers do this all the time with their grandchildren, manifesting the love of God to them, but may never read a bible to them.

These doctrinal debates between historic Protestantism and Roman Catholicism are really about knowing God and growing in greater affections for Him.

This statement has got to be one of the biggest heaps of hooey you have posted here so far. :bigyikes:

Let’s start with justification and the implications of both Protestant and Catholic positions.

Oh, lets do! :dancing:

I am certain that this discussion will increase my affection toward God.

Jesus did it that way, did He not?

:dts:

Thereafter, once we understand each other’s beliefs on justification, let’s explore how these mutually exclusive beliefs play out in the Christian life.

No, Reformed, I do not want to play your game of exclusion of Catholics from the family of God. You have made it clear, and the anti-Catholic website in your signature makes it clear that you do not believe in “ecumenism”. You are not looking for how our beliefs are similar, but different. Unfortunately, in this quest you refuse to look at what the Catholic Church actually teaches, and continue to cling to your erroneous notions.

Which position will grow us in greater affection and love for God? Here is a very short article of the Protestant position. Maybe someone can post a very short work on the Catholic position of justification?

banneroftruth.org/pages/a…detail.php?774

No, thanks, I have had my fill of your web links filled with ignorance and misinformation about the Catholic faith.

Further, I have twice now posted the Catholic catechism for you on justification. Either you refuse to read it, or you are pretending it is not there, or you want to gloss over it to get on with your agenda that Catholics are excluded from Christ. This time, you will have to look it up yourself.

 

[Reformed]

I don’t think you are suggesting justification and sanctification have to happen simultaniously, but why would justification be dependent on sanctification?

Shouldn’t it be the other way around. There is no sanctification without justification?

I suggest you use one of the other links you gave me. This one is so biased it is sickening. Maybe this one which I’m halfway finished reading.

findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3817/is_200406/ai_n9456267/print

Justification is our legal standing before God that is positional only. Sanctification is the lifetime process which we are being transformed into the image of Christ. Why justification is linked to sanctification? Because if someone has been born from above, regenerated and are forever united to Christ, God promises to finish the work that He started through the lifetime process of sanctification. God isn’t going to save us positionally without change us in reality. We are no longer slaves to our old sin nature, but Christ died so we can actually become more and more holy…like Christ, right? We can’t be a new creation in Christ positionally if God isn’t making us what we are positionally. Paul always writes this way… the theology as adopted children secured in what God has done for us in Christ…therefore…live like the new creation.

BTW…I’m not trying to say that you need to agree with the conclusion of the writer of the link. But, is it accurate in describing what Roman Catholics believe as a Catholic Faith?

 

[ralphinal]

Justification is our legal standing before God that is positional only. Sanctification is the lifetime process which we are being transformed into the image of Christ. Why justification is linked to sanctification? Because if someone has been born from above, regenerated and are forever united to Christ, God promises to finish the work that He started through the lifetime process of sanctification. God isn’t going to save us positionally without change us in reality. We are no longer slaves to our old sin nature, but Christ died so we can actually become more and more holy…like Christ, right? We can’t be a new creation in Christ positionally if God isn’t making us what we are positionally. Paul always writes this way… the theology as adopted children secured in what God has done for us in Christ…therefore…live like the new creation.

And here we go again. can someone who has been justified ever sin and lose it?

Don’t answer that. It will derail this thread.

It is a basic question