Reload this Page BAHA'I thread IV - feel free to ask of Baha'i any questions

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How about we try another reasoning?

I love that all Prophesy is Fulfilled by Baha’u’llah, but personally I am not able to keep chatting about it.

What Dale has posted is proof enough IMHO. It is amazing how God works in ways that are not ours.

What about all the other little coincidences that must be looked at with wonder

The First

On May 23, 1844 a young Persian merchant, calling Himself the Bab (the Gate) arose to proclaim the advent of a great Messenger from God - What Hath God Wrought?

The message of our long distance electric communication age was “What hath God wrought?” sent by “Morse Code” from the old Supreme Court chamber in the United States Capitol to his partner in Baltimore, officially opened the completed line of May 24, 1844. Morse allowed Annie Ellsworth, the young daughter of a friend, to choose the words of the message, and she selected a verse from Numbers XXIII, 23: “What hath God wrought?”, which was recorded onto paper tape.

Of all the things that happen are not these so called coincidences marvelous? 😉

There are oh so many things one can use to find out if a Prophet is True or False. One must be like an Alien that has come to Earth for the first time and must find true religion, no preconceived ideas or love in case they become a barrier!

May we all look through new eyes at our God! 👍

Regards Tony
 
Servant19 said:
…except that Baha’u’llah (and Jesus) has taught that personal salvation is a faith AND deeds kinda thing.

For personal salvation today, one must be engaged in the works that contribute towards “societal salvation”
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If I can do good works and be saved without being a Bahai and believing in another manifestation of God, (which you all seem to be saying) then there seems to be no good reason for me to accept your religion.

I don’t believe that Bahaullah is the manifestation of God.

But I believe in Christ. And I do good works.

So, according to you, I am doing just fine. 🤷
 
Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ, offered His life for the forgiveness of sins and for the salvation of souls.

NO ONE ELSE, has done that.

for that reason alone, it is absurd to ask me to follow some other person, no matter how flowery and profuse his writings, no matter how remarkable his life, no matter how serious and dedicated his followers.

bottomline, i receive salvation only through the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross.

to ask me to place a mere man who offers nothing but words at the same level as i place Jesus Christ is irrational.

the bahai who have posted on this thread have not offered one serious reason why i should accord any other human being the love and respect i give to Jesus Christ.

it is not the fault of the bahai (except in their obstinate refusal to accept the salvation Jesus provided them through His death on the cross) that they cannot offer a single convincing reason to place bahaullah at the level i place Christ. that is because there is no reason why anyone should receive from me the love and adoration i give Jesus since ONLY JESUS CHRIST offered His life for my salvation.

if the bahai cannot understand the futility of trying to persuade a person who loves Jesus above all else because Jesus has loved them more than anyone else, it is on them. i cannot make it any clearer.

what i owe to Jesus cannot be owed to any other man because the salvation He has given me is all that is necessary for me or anyone else. all of the rest is fluff.

bahaullah was misguided, at best, and a charlatan at worst. otherwise he would have joined me and the billions of other human beings who have accepted the salvation that comes only through the Cross of Christ.

i am sad that the bahai who come here cannot accept that simple truth.
 
Servant19 said:
Hi doormouse 🙂

God bless you for having Jesus with you wherever you may be. May I ask, when you are in the fields walking, or having dinner with your friends, or at a restaurant, are you partaking in the Eucharistic Sacrament?

In terms of the Baha’i “ways” of partaking in the “union” with God, we have the 19 Day Feast where Baha’is gather together in their communities to partake of the spiritual manna, the recitation of devotions, prayers and the consultation on community affairs. This is how we share in the “Last Supper” as it were 🙂

There is also a very mystical connection we have with God, through Baha’u’llah where we are enabled to commune with Him through our daily prayers, and more intimately through our daily Obligatory Prayers and especially so during our month of Fasting.

The Fasting month especially, I can personally vouch for a state of blissful union with our Beloved, so intimate, and so loving 🙂

I’m sorry to hear of your loss dear friend. I will pray for the progress of their souls. You will assuredly be re-united with them one day, and be assured that their presence is always there, assisting you with so many decisions in your life.

My father passed away 25 years ago, and to this day, I feel he has aided me with so many important decisions, its almost as though he is “working through me”. He was there when I met my eventual wife, he was there when my children were born, and so many other instances, too many to mention here. In all those circumstances, I was assured of his presence through seemingly miraculous circumstances, again, very personal for me, which will remain private if you wouldn’t mind 🙂

God bless you dear friend 🙂
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up until i was 13 yrs old i served daily mass as an alter boy.so i had holy communion every day,so he was with me in body and blood every day.when i grew up i had to work,so i cannot receive it every day… i can feel the difference between the two instances… for sure…so as long as i receive Jesus once a week im happy…

sat at a table with my family in my own thought is like sat down at a table with Jesus,family and friends around…hoping and praying that judas will never sit among you…

what the rest has got to do with receiving Jesus Christ in body and blood?? absolutely nothing at all.

fasting? yes,so do people who have no faith…

now i cannot hold hands with my parents or my brother at all… but i can and do hold hands(union) with Jesus in body and blood in the Eucharist…

and what is this you say symbolic?? lololololol

it is not symbolic at all… it is receiving Jesus… read up on it,if not, I will leave it there.because it will go on forever.lolol…

thank you for the prayers…
 
PRmerger said:
If I can do good works and be saved without being a Bahai and believing in another manifestation of God, (which you all seem to be saying) then there seems to be no good reason for me to accept your religion.

I don’t believe that Bahaullah is the manifestation of God.

But I believe in Christ. And I do good works.

So, according to you, I am doing just fine. 🤷
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My response to this comes with humility and respect. I need to ensure that I am clear in my sincerity as I post this.

Whilst I cherish and admire Christian values and Christian works in alleviating the sufferings of humanity, I am seeing increasing evidence that while Christian works have nobility and purity, the desired outcome has not been reached. Societal salvation entails a whole different set of capacities and works altogether.

Whilst charities and Christian foundations (or Muslim charities for that matter) have done much for humanity, it is increasingly evident that, in terms of sustainability, they have failed.

Ernesto Sirolli is one of the leading development and charity researchers on the planet. His TED talk is quite revealing.

ted.com/talks/ernesto_sirolli_want_to_help_someone_shut_up_and_listen.html

My opinion is that PR you may think that the works you are doing are of value in the sight of God, but the works that Bahaullah has revealed for you are what is truly required for the advancement of His creation.

The choice is yours sister. As I said, it is the Resurrection Day for all who hear of Bahaullah’s Revelation, and God never removes our free will 🙂
 
while bahaullah offered mankind many words, Jesus Christ offered His life on the cross.

make your choice. do so by asking yourselves, who has offered more to you?
 
Servant19 said:
My response to this comes with humility and respect. I need to ensure that I am clear in my sincerity as I post this.

Whilst I cherish and admire Christian values and Christian works in alleviating the sufferings of humanity, I am seeing increasing evidence that while Christian works have nobility and purity, the desired outcome has not been reached.
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This is quite Catholic, Servant. 👍

The desired outcome will not be achieved this side of heaven.
Societal salvation entails a whole different set of capacities and works altogether.
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And it appears that you are saying this can be achieved even if all of us Christians remain Christians, for we are following our truth, yes?
Whilst charities and Christian foundations (or Muslim charities for that matter) have done much for humanity, it is increasingly evident that, in terms of sustainability, they have failed.
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Failed in the sense of not achieving a New Eden? Yes. Failed in achieving good?


My opinion is that PR you may think that the works you are doing are of value in the sight of God, but the works that Bahaullah has revealed for you are what is truly required for the advancement of His creation.
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What, specifically, is a work that Bahaullah has revealed that I need to do that I am not doing?
 
Merger …

Sounds full circle to me…

Investigate for yourself … this is a primary principle of our Faith:

Among these teachings was the independent investigation of reality so that the world of humanity may be saved from the darkness of imitation and attain to the truth; may tear off and cast away this ragged and outgrown garment of a thousand years ago and may put on the robe woven in the utmost purity and holiness in the loom of reality.

~ Abdu’l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu’l-Baha, p. 298

You make your decisions… No body can tell you what to do.

🙂
 
Response to Servant19

Servant if your methodology of interpretation is that of merely examinging a text without need for context, history, original language and other factors then we have very different ideas on the nature of reading any text. By this standard we render all texts subject to the mind of the individual reading them, not the mind of the individual writing them. This sort of subjective method is wrong. A text from any given author in any given genre is given its meaning by the author and not the reader. The reader may be wrong but when the author has determined what it means he is not wrong.

Your prophet seems quite clear a thousand years are needed, and I suspect negative motives for this (namely a lineage of successive prophets would look quite suspicious so he wanted to control his group after he died). My explanation, which is ridiculous is however just as coherent and reasonable as the bahai interpretation of the gospels which doesn’t rely on any sort of examination of the text as a whole, its interpretation throughout history, but rather whatever agrees with the pre established bahai beliefs. This of course must assume that Luke had a bahai Methodology in mind, that he was essentially bahai, something bahai strangely deny (insisting that they were Christians or Jews or Muslims once the new manifestation came). There are plenty of reasons why Luke is not writing in the way bahai subscribe to, that is it was suggested that Luke was writing of a vision that appeared to the apostles. If that were the case Luke no where explained “The apostles were sitting and they had a vision of Christ appearing to them and eating fish,” something he demonstrated in the acts of the apostles he was able to do when Saint Peter received a vision while in a trance from God concerning the gentiles and their entrance into the church and people of God. We can say that if luke wanted to record a vision, he would have prefaced it like he did with Saint Peter, this is a reasonable thing to expect. But he didn’t, and the narrative of the last chapter is in complete harmony with all the others beforehand with no reason to suggest that it suddenly becomes a metaphorical expression.

The same is true I imagine of the bahai writings, which likely are influenced by islam and culture surrounding your prophet’s writings. No writing is universal, no writing is beyond being misconstrewed. If you represent the bahai general opinion then bahai asserts total anarchy with regards to interpretation. One thing can mean something one year and then be completely different the text, it depends on the person, nothing more.

Now, you suggest your prophet was there when Jesus was cruficied. There in what sense? As in the person of Mirza Hussain was watching what happened to the crucified Christ? You need to be explicit. Was he just there in the abstract, his real substance in heaven merely watching Jesus but being there in a hypothetical “spirit?” Do you perhaps by chance mean that he was the same word as Jesus Christ, which bahai seem to believe? Hence I would ask again, was it Jesus Christ talking through the vessal which was mirza Hussain? Are they all one person or two persons? I have to repeat these questions because bahai are unclear as to the details and usually contradict each other.

As for denying that the bahai say Christians have got it wrong, I will say that I am tired of this game. I am tired of bahai trying to pretend they agree with everyone and that there is no difference between us. Im tired of bahai saying “WE THINK JESUS IS DIVINE JUST LIKE YOU DO,” Yet knowing full well what Christians mean. This is blatant deception and until bahai can speak honestly I will call you liars until you speak with clarity. You do deny our Christian interpretation of Christ being physical resurrected, you say we have misunderstood Paul and the bible. You say Christ’s spirit rose and that a belief in his apostles was rekindled and that was resurrection. Hence you deny our Christian faith. STOP PRETENDING TO AGREE WITH EVERYONE, it is beyond condescending and is totally dishonest. If you are not lying, you are deluded at which point there is no reason to continue any discussion on this subject whatsoever. To the Christian, bahai teaching is anathema. To the bahai Christian teaching is anathema.

As for your comment in regards to being a gnostic, the solution is not to work on creating a government from which to the head down things can be controlled and people compelled to obedience. The solution is to work through the inner person without regaurds to any sort of human government. I am not a gnostic, but I do see the corruption in the world and that the vast majority of everyone is evil and corrupt and things are only getting worse. Hence I do not trust any government to save me or society, I trust God to save the individual more than any government could.
 
prmerger asks a simple question, what does bahaullah say is needed to be done to be saved.

the bahai answer thusly, “Investigate for yourself … this is a primary principle of our Faith:”

of course the RCC has taught this for two millenium.

the only conclusion that can be safely drawn is that bahaullah’s primary principle of faith is NOTHING new.

why believe bahaullah was sent from God when He denies Christ’s divinity but simultaneously claims the teachings of Christ to have originated with bahaullah?

it is quite illuminating that the followers of bahaullah are incapable of seeing the contradictions in his teachings.

there is defiinitely some force at work in bahia, but considering all of the deceit that originates with bahaullah, it is quite difficult to believe his teachings come from a benevolent Creator.
 
eddie_too said:
while bahaullah offered mankind many words, Jesus Christ offered His life on the cross.

make your choice. do so by asking yourselves, who has offered more to you?
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Eddie - I want you to realize and consider you are making a comparison that is very shallow and very hurtful.

You are attacking the very core of Love

It is like me saying to you that Christ dying on the cross was not a thing - God Forbid such a statement!

Have you read a thing about the sufferings of the Bab, Baha’u’llah and Abdul’baha. What about Muhammad. They all did as Christ did and that was suffer for mankind. History has this recorded.

In Fact Baha’u’llah did suffer all the sufferings of all the Prophets past, and a lot more and for well over 40 years!

The Bab suffered the same fate and for the same reasons as Jesus and when you put the situations together they mirror Jesus sufferings.

I would suggest you at least have a look at these facts.

This is just the outward vision of those sufferings. Spiritually we are still dishing it out to them. How much is still being done in Christs and Other prophets names that would just want them to turn away?

There are many writings on this, please take the time to become aware of this topic.

Regards Tony
 
indeed, suffering is part of the human condition. no one gets out of life without suffering.

ONLY Jesus Christ offered His life on the cross for the forgiveness of sins and the salvation of souls.

NO ONE ELSE did that. why would they since Jesus did it once and for all?

like i said, everyone is free to believe and practice whatever they choose.

as for me, i will follow Him who freely offered His life on the cross specifically for the forgiveness of my sins and for my salvation.

those who try to diminish this truth are no friends of God or me.

those who claim to be equal to Jesus Christ are no friends of God or me.

bahaullah spoke many words and suffered, as do all human beings, sometimes, if others are to be believed, suffered greatly, suffered similar to the sufferings of many others who have lived.

ONLY Jesus Christ, offered His life on the cross for me. NO ONE ELSE.

you can follow whoever you choose. i will follow the ONLY ONE who offered His life for the forgiveness of sins and the salvation of souls.

it is my heart felt prayer that all other human beings do the same. i hope everyone will reject those who trade off of the life and sufferings of Jesus Christ.
 
the Jesus who returns to judge all souls is the same MAN, the same body and soul, who offered His life on the cross.
 
i cannot make anyone believe or do anything. indeed, i have no desire to make anyone do or believe anything.

i am just pointing out that only one person in all of human history, freely offered His life for the forgiveness of sins and the salvation of souls.

reject His lordship if that turns your crank. but, realize you are rejecting the ONLY ONE who backed up His words with His actions.
 
it is right to compare the offering of Christ on the cross to the lives of any other who seeks your support.

it is right to ask why a teacher would believe he or she could offer you what Jesus Christ offers you. this is especially true since once the forgiveness of sins and salvation of souls has been accomplished the is nothing left for a human being to know.

throughout history men have wanted to unite the world. the earliest historical documentation of this fact is alexander the great. others are napoleon and hitler. marx and engels also wanted this to occur. each of them had their own agenda for achieving this and their own motivation for achieving this.

seeking a united world is nothing new. it has been the dream of many a man. so, in this respect bahaullah offers nothing new.
 
PRmerger said:
And it appears that you are saying this can be achieved even if all of us Christians remain Christians, for we are following our truth, yes?

Failed in the sense of not achieving a New Eden? Yes. Failed in achieving good?

What, specifically, is a work that Bahaullah has revealed that I need to do that I am not doing?
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This is my opinion as it is far from me to comment on the Grace and bounty of God - It is written one must accept the Prophet of the day for the deeds offered to God to be of full value. If one is not aware of the new Prophet then that will be accounted for, if one has been made aware of the Prophet, then the reaction and subsequent deeds will be accounted for.

Every thing we do is written and accounted for.

Failed to live up to the power of the Word and its full potential, as Baha’is we can also be accused of this. We have been told that if a person could live at least one virtue to its fullest, then we would have great influence. We all fall short but should not sit back and wait, we should all be living virtuous and by deeds not words.

One Planet One People Please, God is One, Religion is one, what you can do is find the connection 👍

Regards Tony
 
eddie_too said:
i cannot make anyone believe or do anything. indeed, i have no desire to make anyone do or believe anything.

i am just pointing out that only one person in all of human history, freely offered His life for the forgiveness of sins and the salvation of souls.

reject His lordship if that turns your crank. but, realize you are rejecting the ONLY ONE who backed up His words with His actions.
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Eddie - If you look at the same subject in a different light then you will get a different answer.

But it is time for me to say Farewell to you Eddie - God Bless and best of luck in life and Faith.

Regards Tony
 
mark chapter 13 tells us what we need to know about bahaullah.

Christ crucified have mercy upon me and upon the whole world.
 
tonyfish58 said:
Eddie - I want you to realize and consider you are making a comparison that is very shallow and very hurtful.

You are attacking the very core of Love

It is like me saying to you that Christ dying on the cross was not a thing - God Forbid such a statement!

Have you read a thing about the sufferings of the Bab, Baha’u’llah and Abdul’baha. What about Muhammad. They all did as Christ did and that was suffer for mankind. History has this recorded.

In Fact Baha’u’llah did suffer all the sufferings of all the Prophets past, and a lot more and for well over 40 years!

The Bab suffered the same fate and for the same reasons as Jesus and when you put the situations together they mirror Jesus sufferings.

I would suggest you at least have a look at these facts.

This is just the outward vision of those sufferings. Spiritually we are still dishing it out to them. How much is still being done in Christs and Other prophets names that would just want them to turn away?

There are many writings on this, please take the time to become aware of this topic.

Regards Tony
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Tony, Christ’s love for us was greater than anyone elses. Jesus Christ said all who are weary should go to him. In Jesus there is solace and forgiveness for sins. What is there in Abraham? he was a sinner. What is there in mirza Hussain? He was a sinner. What is there in muhammad? He was a sinner.

Hebrews 12 Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the origin and the crown of all faith, who, to win his prize of blessedness, endured the cross and made light of its shame, Jesus, who now sits on the right of God’s throne. 3 Take your standard from him, from his endurance, from the enmity the wicked bore him, and you will not grow faint, you will not find your souls unmanned.

Jesus is higher than all your supposed manifestations, he is greater in power and glory than Mirza Hussain who cannot forgive my sins, who cannot perfect me.
 
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