Reload this Page BAHA'I thread IV - feel free to ask of Baha'i any questions

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the most shallow and hurtful comment i have read in this thread is bahaullah teaching that he is equal to Jesus Christ. Why?

because only Jesus Christ offered His life on the cross for the salvation of souls and the forgiveness of sins.

on what planet is any man comparable to the ONLY MAN who freely went to His death so that all might have life?
 
One Planet One People Please, God is One, Religion is one, what you can do is find the connection 👍

Regards Tony
What is common among all people is the desire for God, even those who are not aware of it. There is an immense longing in the human spirit that can only be satisfied by God alone.

It is when you make statements such as “Religion is one” that people begin to have doubts. We know that religion is not one at all. We have so many different religions and beliefs that we can say objectively “Religion is not one”. While the desire of the human heart originates from the same Source and while unity of belief is a noble pursuit, it is far from a reality and the trend is heading in the opposite direction. Everyday we have new faith traditions springing up which conflict with those before it. So while “one religion” may be a goal, it is not a reality and will not be a reality until Christ returns.
 
Baha’is are interested in interfaith activities on the local and international levels and we do believe there is a common spiritual origin of the major world religions…

*The splendor of Providence hath encircle all races, nations, communities and religions; the foundation of foreignness is swept away and the basis of Oneness is established; love hath become universal and the spiritual ties are strengthened
*
~ Abdu’l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu’l-Baha v2, p. 304

One of the places people can learn about each others religion and find some commonalities is the World Parliament of Religions:

*The Council for a Parliament of the World’s Religions was created to “cultivate harmony among the world’s religious and spiritual communities and foster their engagement with the world and its guiding institutions in order to achieve a just, peaceful and sustainable world.”

*wisdomofreligion.blogspot.com/2010/07/parliament-of-worlds-religions-summit.html

🙂
 


Investigate for yourself …
Yes. This is what I am doing.

this is a primary principle of our Faith:
You make your decisions… No body can tell you what to do.
Please stop saying this. All of you Bahais. It’s already been established that our choice of religion is, well, our choice.

It’s as if I kept saying, “Please remember, artha, that it is always wrong to rape women!”

No one here has posited that it is good to rape women, so there is no need to keep repeating that it’s wrong to rape.
 
while bahaullah offered mankind many words, Jesus Christ offered His life on the cross.

make your choice. do so by asking yourselves, who has offered more to you?
Deary me 😦

This is not a competition Eddie. I feel the level of humility is gone right out of the window…
 
This is quite Catholic, Servant. 👍

The desired outcome will not be achieved this side of heaven.
We are here to unite heaven and earth. “On earth as it is in heaven”…you’ve been praying for it for 2000 years, and now when a community has got off its backside and is making incredible efforts to make it a reality, you reject it. This is screaming of Jewish behaviour towards Jesus…
And it appears that you are saying this can be achieved even if all of us Christians remain Christians, for we are following our truth, yes?
As I have pointed out previously, there are a large cohort of Christians who have recognized that the works of Baha’is is indeed praiseworthy and are inspired to contribute to the work of the Cause. They are contributing towards “societal salvation”, the new heaven and the new earth…
Failed in the sense of not achieving a New Eden? Yes. Failed in achieving good?
Let it be known, once and for all, the Baha’i Faith is here for no other purpose than to create a New Heaven and a New Earth. You can call it a New Eden if you like, but what its shaping into is something that mortal eyes have never witnessed.

The amount of indigenous peoples that are embracing the Baha’i paradigm that are calling out the name of Baha’u’llah is simply because they ahve never ever seen a religion bring so much respect, love and equality to them. They feel empowered to fulfill whatever they wish, not patronized into conforming to religious dogmas and doctrines, as in the past.

How many Aboriginal Catholic priests are there in Australia?

Entire Baha’i institutions are being run by Aboriginals in Australia. This has never been witnessed. To the Aboriginal community of Santa Teresa (for example) the new heaven and new earth has already come forth. These things have NEVER been witnessed.

These people have FINALLY been embraced, empowered and TRUSTED to do good…
What, specifically, is a work that Bahaullah has revealed that I need to do that I am not doing?
Empowerment, purpose, education, consultation, in no particular order, and all their associated facets. Its what the world needs.
 
Tony, Christ’s love for us was greater than anyone elses. Jesus Christ said all who are weary should go to him. In Jesus there is solace and forgiveness for sins. What is there in Abraham? he was a sinner. What is there in mirza Hussain? He was a sinner. What is there in muhammad? He was a sinner.

Hebrews 12 Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the origin and the crown of all faith, who, to win his prize of blessedness, endured the cross and made light of its shame, Jesus, who now sits on the right of God’s throne. 3 Take your standard from him, from his endurance, from the enmity the wicked bore him, and you will not grow faint, you will not find your souls unmanned.

Jesus is higher than all your supposed manifestations, he is greater in power and glory than Mirza Hussain who cannot forgive my sins, who cannot perfect me.
I would suggest you stick with Jesus Ignatian. It seems He is giving you all the gifts you desire. Who needs to worship a sinner hey?

How Baha’u’llah has beceome a sinner now is beyond me…🤷
 
up until i was 13 yrs old i served daily mass as an alter boy.so i had holy communion every day,so he was with me in body and blood every day.when i grew up i had to work,so i cannot receive it every day… i can feel the difference between the two instances… for sure…so as long as i receive Jesus once a week im happy…

sat at a table with my family in my own thought is like sat down at a table with Jesus,family and friends around…hoping and praying that judas will never sit among you…

what the rest has got to do with receiving Jesus Christ in body and blood?? absolutely nothing at all.

fasting? yes,so do people who have no faith…

now i cannot hold hands with my parents or my brother at all… but i can and do hold hands(union) with Jesus in body and blood in the Eucharist…

and what is this you say symbolic?? lololololol

it is not symbolic at all… it is receiving Jesus… read up on it,if not, I will leave it there.because it will go on forever.lolol…

thank you for the prayers…
God bless you doormouse. I’m not sure Baha’is enjoy being mocked and laughed at, but fair play to you. Please accept our apologies for offering an alternative perspective.
 
We are here to unite heaven and earth. “On earth as it is in heaven”…you’ve been praying for it for 2000 years, and now when a community has got off its backside and is making incredible efforts to make it a reality, you reject it. This is screaming of Jewish behaviour towards Jesus…
I wouldn’t expect you to understand Catholic theology–you, of course, are under no obligation to be cognizant of Catholicism. (Although it’s probably smart to know it, as you are on a Catholic forum after all. But I don’t fault you for not knowing this…)

…but heaven and earth are united. This happens at Mass each and every hour of the day, from the rising of the sun to its setting. Heaven and earth are united at the Lamb’s Supper.
 
This is screaming of Jewish behaviour towards Jesus…
Annndd…your rejection of a physical resurrection of Jesus is screaming of Jewish behavior towards Jesus.

As is your rejection of the Eucharist. That puts you in the category of those who left Him because of it.

"But there are some of you who do not believe.”

"As a result of this, many of his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him.
 
Let it be known, once and for all, the Baha’i Faith is here for no other purpose than to create a New Heaven and a New Earth. You can call it a New Eden if you like, but what its shaping into is something that mortal eyes have never witnessed.
This sounds like a dogma you are proclaiming, yes? “Let it be known”, eh?
The amount of indigenous peoples that are embracing the Baha’i paradigm that are calling out the name of Baha’u’llah is simply because they ahve never ever seen a religion bring so much respect, love and equality to them. They feel empowered to fulfill whatever they wish, not patronized into conforming to religious dogmas and doctrines, as in the past.
Curious that you write this, after proclaiming, well, a dogma, just a few sentences earlier.

How
many Aboriginal Catholic priests are there in Australia?
I suppose there’s few. I dunno.

The Church could always do a better job evangelizing. No argument with you there. :sad_yes:
Empowerment, purpose, education, consultation, in no particular order, and all their associated facets. Its what the world needs.
Annndddd, here it is. Another dogma that you are proclaiming.

Curioser and curioser.
 
Annndd…your rejection of a physical resurrection of Jesus is screaming of Jewish behavior towards Jesus.

As is your rejection of the Eucharist. That puts you in the category of those who left Him because of it.

"But there are some of you who do not believe.”

"As a result of this, many of his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him.
Thats fair enough PR 🙂

I’m quite happy to be amongst the Jews who reject a physical resurrection. No-ones twisting anyones arms here.

I still cannot reconcile how a glorified/physical body can be in a room when two or three gather in His name. Even if you say that this is the spirit of Jesus in that room, then we have an irreconcileable conflict where Christian theology demands that we are body AND spirit. How can Jesus separate His body and spirit as if He were two persons?

Anyway, we’ve discussed this till the cows came home. I’m happy to leave it and mingle with the Jews 🙂
 
This sounds like a dogma you are proclaiming, yes? “Let it be known”, eh?

Curious that you write this, after proclaiming, well, a dogma, just a few sentences earlier.

How

I suppose there’s few. I dunno.

The Church could always do a better job evangelizing. No argument with you there. :sad_yes:

Annndddd, here it is. Another dogma that you are proclaiming.

Curioser and curioser.
Interesting you chose to focus on the word “dogma” rather than the word “patronized”

“Patre-” is the root for patronizing and paternalistic = “father”
No human being likes being disempowered…
 
I still cannot reconcile how a glorified/physical body can be in a room when two or three gather in His name.
Yes. His glorified/physical body is not present in Protestant gatherings. Just His spiritual presence.

There is no need to reconcile this with anything. He is not bodily present in mega-churches, although the Spirit is there, to be sure.
Even if you say that this is the spirit of Jesus in that room, then we have an irreconcileable conflict where Christian theology demands that we are body AND spirit.
We are body and spirit. Yes.
How can Jesus separate His body and spirit as if He were two persons?
LOL!

If you believed that Bahaullah survived being shot at by 750 soldiers, I’m pretty sure you can believe that Jesus can separate His body and His spirit.
 
Interesting you chose to focus on the word “dogma” rather than the word “patronized”

“Patre-” is the root for patronizing and paternalistic = “father”
No human being likes being disempowered…
I have no idea what you are trying to say here. :confused:
 
Have you read the new testament? Salvation comes from Christ jesus and faith and grace through him. Why should we put our stock in worldly affairs? Salvation doesn’t come from obeying the law, it comes from the grace of Jesus Christ.
God spoke of Salvation through all of His Prophets and Manifestations, prior to the coming of Jesus:

“For I am the Lord your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior” Isaiah 43:3

“I, even I, am the Lord, besides Me there is no Savior” Isaiah 43:11

“Truly You are God, Who hide Yourself, God of Israel, the Savior” Isaiah 45:15

“Then Saviors shall come to Mt Zion” (Israel) Obadiah 1:21 Note “Plural” = Saviors

. The name Jesus is the Greek form of the Hebrew name Yehoshuah. The English rendition is usually Joshua. In Hebrew this name means “God is Salvation”, or “God saves”
 
Response to Servant19

Servant if your methodology of interpretation is that of merely examinging a text without need for context, history, original language and other factors then we have very different ideas on the nature of reading any text. By this standard we render all texts subject to the mind of the individual reading them, not the mind of the individual writing them. This sort of subjective method is wrong. A text from any given author in any given genre is given its meaning by the author and not the reader. The reader may be wrong but when the author has determined what it means he is not wrong.

Your prophet seems quite clear a thousand years are needed, and I suspect negative motives for this (namely a lineage of successive prophets would look quite suspicious so he wanted to control his group after he died). My explanation, which is ridiculous is however just as coherent and reasonable as the bahai interpretation of the gospels which doesn’t rely on any sort of examination of the text as a whole, its interpretation throughout history, but rather whatever agrees with the pre established bahai beliefs. This of course must assume that Luke had a bahai Methodology in mind, that he was essentially bahai, something bahai strangely deny (insisting that they were Christians or Jews or Muslims once the new manifestation came). There are plenty of reasons why Luke is not writing in the way bahai subscribe to, that is it was suggested that Luke was writing of a vision that appeared to the apostles. If that were the case Luke no where explained “The apostles were sitting and they had a vision of Christ appearing to them and eating fish,” something he demonstrated in the acts of the apostles he was able to do when Saint Peter received a vision while in a trance from God concerning the gentiles and their entrance into the church and people of God. We can say that if luke wanted to record a vision, he would have prefaced it like he did with Saint Peter, this is a reasonable thing to expect. But he didn’t, and the narrative of the last chapter is in complete harmony with all the others beforehand with no reason to suggest that it suddenly becomes a metaphorical expression.

The same is true I imagine of the bahai writings, which likely are influenced by islam and culture surrounding your prophet’s writings. No writing is universal, no writing is beyond being misconstrewed. If you represent the bahai general opinion then bahai asserts total anarchy with regards to interpretation. One thing can mean something one year and then be completely different the text, it depends on the person, nothing more.

*(I had to shorten this here due to the word count exceeding the limit) *

As for denying that the bahai say Christians have got it wrong, I will say that I am tired of this game. I am tired of bahai trying to pretend they agree with everyone and that there is no difference between us. Im tired of bahai saying “WE THINK JESUS IS DIVINE JUST LIKE YOU DO,” Yet knowing full well what Christians mean. This is blatant deception and until bahai can speak honestly I will call you liars until you speak with clarity. You do deny our Christian interpretation of Christ being physical resurrected, you say we have misunderstood Paul and the bible. You say Christ’s spirit rose and that a belief in his apostles was rekindled and that was resurrection. Hence you deny our Christian faith. STOP PRETENDING TO AGREE WITH EVERYONE, it is beyond condescending and is totally dishonest. If you are not lying, you are deluded at which point there is no reason to continue any discussion on this subject whatsoever. To the Christian, bahai teaching is anathema. To the bahai Christian teaching is anathema.

As for your comment in regards to being a gnostic, the solution is not to work on creating a government from which to the head down things can be controlled and people compelled to obedience. The solution is to work through the inner person without regaurds to any sort of human government. I am not a gnostic, but I do see the corruption in the world and that the vast majority of everyone is evil and corrupt and things are only getting worse. Hence I do not trust any government to save me or society, I trust God to save the individual more than any government could.
Hi Ignatian,

There is so much misunderstanding in this post that I really do not know where to start. I often wonder if anyone is really investigating the truths of the Baha’i Faith or are you all here to win a war?

We raise the white flag!! We are not here to fight.

Whether it’s PR’s suggestion that it was Baha’u’llah who was killed by the 750 soldiers, (my goodness, its only taken about 20 pages of discussing that event to realise that it was the Bab, not Baha’u’llah) or your insistence that we, as Baha’is are trying to create a one world, totalitarian, dictatorial regime to force our beliefs onto the oppressed.

Total and utter misunderstanding, and it seems, lack of willingness to understand.

If you wish to address the details of your post one step at a time, we can focus on just one thing before we move on. I genuinely believe that addressing all the points of misunderstanding in your post will only serve to move you backwards.

Small drops first Ignatian 🙂 Feel free to ask questions on one concept…
 
What is common among all people is the desire for God, even those who are not aware of it. There is an immense longing in the human spirit that can only be satisfied by God alone.

It is when you make statements such as “Religion is one” that people begin to have doubts. We know that religion is not one at all. We have so many different religions and beliefs that we can say objectively “Religion is not one”. While the desire of the human heart originates from the same Source and while unity of belief is a noble pursuit, it is far from a reality and the trend is heading in the opposite direction. Everyday we have new faith traditions springing up which conflict with those before it. So while “one religion” may be a goal, it is not a reality and will not be a reality until Christ returns.
Steve,
. If you will allow me a quotation explaining further the concept that all “true religion” has a common Source, I think it might help this particular discussion. So, if I may,

. “O contending peoples and kindreds of the earth! Set your faces towards unity, and let the radiance of its light shine upon you. Gather ye together, and for the sake of God resolve to root out whatever is the source of contention amongst you. Then will the effulgence of the world’s great Luminary envelop the whole earth, and its inhabitants become the citizens of one city, and the occupants of one and the same throne. This wronged One hath, ever since the early days of His life, cherished none other desire but this, and will continue to entertain no wish except this wish. There can be no doubt whatever that the peoples of the world, of whatever race or religion, derive their inspiration from one heavenly Source, and are the subjects of one God. The difference between the ordinances under which they abide should be attributed to the varying requirements and exigencies of the age in which they were revealed. All of them, except a few which are the outcome of human perversity, were ordained of God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose. Arise and, armed with the power of faith, shatter to pieces the gods of your vain imaginings, the sowers of dissension amongst you. Cleave unto that which draweth you together and uniteth you. This, verily, is the most exalted Word which the Mother Book hath sent down and revealed unto you. To this beareth witness the Tongue of Grandeur from His habitation of glory.”

. Steve, please take some time to consider this statement and please comment on your honest impressions and thoughts about what it is really saying. Can you, friend?
Thanks for your charitable kindness in being open to discuss these things with the Baha’is, for we know that our views contrast in some areas, according to our different perspectives, we hope to share that we may all learn from each other more about how God has inspired different peoples of the world, drawing us to Him, giving us morals and sensitivities, humility, and the recognition that He made all us, who are supposed to be true spiritual brothers and sisters. God bless, brother.

Thank you so much for your thoughts.
 
Yes. His glorified/physical body is not present in Protestant gatherings. Just His spiritual presence.

There is no need to reconcile this with anything. He is not bodily present in mega-churches, although the Spirit is there, to be sure.

We are body and spirit. Yes.

LOL!

If you believed that Bahaullah survived being shot at by 750 soldiers, I’m pretty sure you can believe that Jesus can separate His body and His spirit.
Well if this is what is going to happen to you when you are raised from the dead, then you cease to be human, dont you? Human is body AND spirit isn’t it?
 
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