Remain isolated or restart the economy?

[toddy]

It’s God’s wrath.
God is destroying the flesh or sins,
at least our own flesh and from the world,
to protect His children indeed.

God see men having lesser roots of sins like selfishness, pride, greed; etc. So He maybe says “Oh, it is good for earth”.

However, earth has tons of sins:
unbelievers, deities worship, gays, same sex marriage, abortion, drugs, sex slaves…

God wants to see the repentance yet to come.
Repentance is the key or it lasts almost forever
It is up to mankind.

All are His plan to reopen the economy or not.
You all can guess what will happen.

 

[CathBoy1]

I certainly DON’T believe that work is the only reason to live.

Nor do I, but work is needed to put food on the table, for me and many, many more in similar situations this is the case, one simply cannot put food on the table without money and there are those of us who are almost out of money.

I’m not talking about about a simple case of cabin fever or being mad because I can’t get a haircut, I’m saying that there are those of us who are skipping breakfast and sometimes lunch just to stretch our funds to keep feeding our families at least once a day, eventually we will be eating less than that, for us going back to work is essential, there is no other option.

Please try to understand that there is so much more at stake than you may realize, for many, many of us.

 

[Dr_Meinheimer]

Big of you. My job is essential for now, so I can still get haircuts in my state. My wife has handled my boys haircuts; the girls will have to let it grow.

 

[CathBoy1]

Do not try to tell me that the transmission of a virus (R-naught) has nothing to do with the number of contacts the average infected persons has. That’s simply false. It is not inevitable that every person in a population is going to be exposed to the infectious agent in a pandemic, particularly not when the agent is relatively difficult to spread (as compared to, say, the measles).

And what is your solution? Stay inside for 6 months? Or a year?

What do you suggest to those of us who are almost broke and will not be able to feed our families for that length of time? Shall we starve to death? How about those who stop paying their bills so as to keep feeding their families,are they to do without?
Are they to be thrown out of their homes?

This is the direction things are going, we must start to reopen, we must, there is no other option.

 

[LisaB]

I gave up barbers earlier this year. My haircuts consist of shaving down to the bare scalp every 2 or 3 days, cheapest haircut on the planet, no maintenance whatsoever. Shampoo and combs belong to my past.

I have offered to cut my family’s hair but they will have none of it.

Hmm, I wonder why.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

He’s the only president to personally attend the pro-life rally…I don’t understand your comment. Just because he hasn’t totally banned abortion (which is evil on all counts and I am completely against) doesn’t mean hes “pro choice”

Trump is not pro-choice, I totally get that. He is about as pro-life as you can expect a mainstream, moderate Protestant to be (exceptions for rape, incest, life of mother, etc.). But I do maintain that it is anti-life to open up the economy too early, have possibly hundreds of thousands to die, all in the name of “getting America back to work”. Would you stand by and watch Grand Rapids or Salt Lake City get annihilated to get the economy started again?

In a crisis, you can’t always worry about how much it is costing to deal with the crisis. Pumping all this fiat money into the economy may lead to inflation down the road, but that may just have to be the cost of dealing with the emergency in the here and now.

HomeschoolDad:

I gave up barbers earlier this year. My haircuts consist of shaving down to the bare scalp every 2 or 3 days, cheapest haircut on the planet, no maintenance whatsoever. Shampoo and combs belong to my past.

I have offered to cut my family’s hair but they will have none of it.

Hmm, I wonder why.

On the lighter side (and we could all use some “lighter side” these days), I wouldn’t subject them to a scalping unless they just absolutely wanted it. I think I could give them decent haircuts, but they don’t share my optimism.

 

[PetraG]

And what is your solution? Stay inside for 6 months? Or a year?

What do you suggest to those of us who are almost broke and will not be able to feed our families for that length of time? Shall we starve to death? How about those who stop paying their bills so as to keep feeding their families,are they to do without?
Are they to be thrown out of their homes?

This is the direction things are going, we must start to reopen, we must, there is no other option.

The need to limit the degree to which there are economic restrictions and the kind of restrictions does not imply that “the shutdown/quarantine isn’t saving anyone.” As for the death count being lower than originally estimated, well, we’d hope so!! That was the point, after all!

Our state has both a low mortality and transmission rate and yet without implementing the most strict measures for limiting the spread of the infection. We can get gardening supplies, we haven’t stopped construction crews or other activities, provided that in practice those are done with physical distancing.

This isn’t a “doing-everything-is-best” or “doing-anything-is-pointless” matter, and no one in epidemiology or government ever implied it was.

 

[ColoradoCatholic]

Well I suppose its all speculation on both sides, there could be more deaths from Covid from opening up the country, and yet the main media providers are already saying that we are experiencing an economic fall that is now rivaling the Great Depression. I think what Trump is trying to do is choose the lesser of two evils. No matter what he does though he will be crucified, I feel bad for him often.

Opinion Warning* - I think it is actually best to open the country. Yes people will die, but It looks to be unavoidable since an Economic Collapse PLUS Covid would only exacerbate this horrible situation anyway.

 

[CathBoy1]

for the death count being lower than originally estimated, well, we’d hope so!! That was the point, after all!

The estimate of 2 million by May was counting in social distancing and shut downs/self quarantine.

The fact is this is not as deadly or fast spreading as originally thought as such we need to put into motion a way forward to re-open people cannot simply not work, just because it isn’t a problem for you to stay home and not work because you have the means, doesn’t mean it’s the same for the rest of us.

 

[PetraG]

The estimate of 2 million by May was counting in social distancing and shut downs/self quarantine.

The fact is this is not as deadly or fast spreading as originally thought as such we need to put into motion a way forward to re-open people cannot simply not work, just because it isn’t a problem for you to stay home and not work because you have the means, doesn’t mean it’s the same for the rest of us.

If you’re saying that there are places with lesser restrictions who are also seeing very encouraging transmission rates, I’d agree. If you’re saying we can’t play dead economically indefinitely, I also agree. We desperately need about ten times the testing and tracking capacity we have, and we need it yesterday.

 

[EssentialBeing]

one simply cannot put food on the table without money

Yes what you are saying makes perfect sense, however it is how modern society’s function where money translates to food, shelter & so much more, but this is because we are intertwined in ways that make it very difficult to escape.

I do realize the things that are at stake (livelihoods, education, health, shelter, nutrition, just to name a few), I only propose that our heavy reliance on money causes us to feel a sense of helplessness & loose the ability & or knowledge to live without so much reliance on it.

THERE ARE OTHER WAYS to alleviate our dependence on money.

I am not suggesting it is easy or even possible for so many, but then again this is where the difference is. OUR ABILITY TO CHANGE OUR WAYS

 

[EssentialBeing]

The global economic system is what is falling apart in turn causing damage to our way of life. The impacts are being felt by ALL

 

[PetraG]

Whenever we do “reopen America” – Donald Trump said we’d do it Easter, and promptly backed down with his tail between his legs – we will have more disasters after that. America is going to fall apart soon. You heard it here first.

He cannot ignore that big outbreaks have overwhelmed emergency services and ICUs. He can’t ignore that the medical people need to be able to do their jobs safely. He can’t ignore how many of them got sick and even died in the places that had big outbreaks–we’re talking physicians under 35, too.

Yes, we will surely have a global economic downturn. The countries with the big outbreaks aren’t going to do better, though.

 

[otjm]

Then push your representatives to support them, rather than handing out out welfare to corporations. Honestly the US stimulus is a joke and it targets the wrong areas, you need to keep the majority above water the corps will look after themselves.

Welfare to corporations? Your sense of economics is such that if those same corporations were to fail, you might be inclined to say the government should have done something.

If a corporation fails a multiple of things can happen; it can cease to exist, it can be broken up and the viable parts revived, and the failing parts failed. And in all of that, there are people you appear to wish ill to - they are called the employees (as well as their families).

Boeing is a critical component of the US economy; and has suffered it’s own fate in failing to stay on top of engineering and problem solving. That, however, means some heads need to roll, they need to get their (stuff) together, and they need to find a way to get past this crisis, which is not local, it is world wide. There is only one significant player competing with them, and that is in Europe.

And yes, I know the problems they have had as I trade the stock. It is still a highly valuable and highly competitive player not just in the US, but in the world scene of aviation. I would have no problem with serious strings attached to any assistance, and I suspect they are not going to get a “handout”, or as you put it welfare.

Just a hint for you: Boeing has some 13,000 suppliers whose business would be seriously damaged, if not destroyed should Boeing go upside down. And the same goes for any other large corporation; they almost all have suppliers needing them to stay in business.

It is easy to sling around the liberal media talking points; but it is not a sign of even a modicum of understanding of the issues.

 

[Inquisitor85]

Ok so how does this sound, the government pays companies to keep employees on payroll, so they give employers let’s say 75-80% of their payroll up to a preset limit of let’s say $3000 per month on the proviso that ALL of the money is paid through normal payroll? The board may need to take a pay cut, but in Boeings case the shareholders should have been pushing for that anyway. That also helps small businesses out as well.

What about the self employed? I hear you cry, well how about 80% of profits up to a limit of $3000 per month?

Now the restart, has to be done carefully of course but theres ways government can help get the economy moving quickly. Infrastructure spending is a good one, get people out working and that then flows back into the real economy and put money into people’s pockets which they can then spend.

Oh that’s not a “liberal talking point”, that’s the UK’s CONSERVATIVE government policy.

 

[otjm]

Ok so how does this sound,

It sounds like common sense. Not sure that Congress is capable of it, given the black/white difference between the two parties with little or no gray in between.

 

[Inquisitor85]

I have no idea how to make your government function, they seem to have a focus on blocking the other side.

 

[otjm]

Well, I have an idea of how to possibly improve its performance; set up term limits of a maximum of 12 years. Election to the Senate is for 6 years, which would allow for two terms. The house is up for election every two years; so one could serve 6 terms in the House, two in the Senate, or 3 in the House and 1 in the Senate.

Coupled with that would be a complete revision of any post service benefits, and a law outlawing anyone who has served from lobbying.

Not likely to occur, but certainly been talked about for decades.

we have an electorate which has a strong streak of socialist sentiment among the younger voters. One of the problems is that our educational system (public) in grade and high school has basically been taking a socialist perspective on history to the point that not much of anything else is taught, and the mantras currently popular -Medicare for all, forgiveness of student debt, free college for everyone, and a host of other changes all require a tax rate that would eventually take not only all profit from all business, but tax almost the complete salarries of all individuals.

In a book written 10 years ago, demography was discussed (before Medicare for All was ever a cry of the Left).

From the Congressional Budget office then, Medicare cost was estimated to grow at 9% annually and Medicaid at 8%. The two combined in 2,000 amounted to 4.3% of GDP; at that growth rate it would amount to 21% of GDP. That would result in demanding a larger share of the country’s output than the entire federal government did in 2010. In other words, short of tremendously high tax rates or an astronomical economical expansion , Medicare and Medicaid would leave the federal government only able to pay for them; - and nothing for roads, or schools, or armies, or anything else.

And current “conversations” don’t even tip a hat in the direction of the costs of the proposed programs.

 

[Inquisitor85]

Universal Healthcare provision is pretty much available across the Western world outside of the US, I’m sure it could be paid for within the current tax take although you’d have to get clever with the budget and big pharma.

 

[EssentialBeing]

Universal Healthcare provision is pretty much available across the Western world outside of the US, I’m sure it could be paid for within the current tax take although you’d have to get clever with the budget and big pharma

58% of community hospitals in the United States are non-profit, 21% are government owned , and 21% are private

I believe the the world is looking at this closely & perhaps the balance of private, non-profit & public are out of kilter