Remember Abduh Rahman?

[Valke2]

My charitable efforts were in my mind a vote against Islam which I will do what I can to stop.

Now, I see Islam might be a good thing. In some ways.

I’m glad to see that you are willing to accept other people’s view points.

 

[cestusdei]

I am going to say it again. When in the last 100 years have Catholics advocated murdering apostates? Neither Catholics nor Jews are interesting in killing those who leave. BUT Muslims do. Do you see Muslims protesting this kidnapping or the desire to kill Abdul? Where are the crowds? Where are the riots? Where are the protests? If we drew a cartoon they would happen. It is not infrequent that Muslims support or even participate in the murder of those who convert.

Damascus, do not be fooled. Islam is NOT a good thing. It is false and violent. I tried to find one good thing that Islam has done for me lately. I can think of nothing.

Valke, as a Jew you are target number one. They would kill you in a heartbeat. Remember Pearl. Don’t be so quick to buy into their propaganda.

Let’s all keep the topic of the thread in mind. Once again Muslims are trying to kill a Christian for converting. And none of them have said that it is wrong. Not even pro.

 

[Valke2]

I am going to say it again. When in the last 100 years have Catholics advocated murdering apostates? Neither Catholics nor Jews are interesting in killing those who leave. BUT Muslims do. Do you see Muslims protesting this kidnapping or the desire to kill Abdul? Where are the crowds? Where are the riots? Where are the protests? If we drew a cartoon they would happen. It is not infrequent that Muslims support or even participate in the murder of those who convert.

Damascus, do not be fooled. Islam is NOT a good thing. It is false and violent. I tried to find one good thing that Islam has done for me lately. I can think of nothing.

Valke, as a Jew you are target number one. They would kill you in a heartbeat. Remember Pearl. Don’t be so quick to buy into their propaganda.

Let’s all keep the topic of the thread in mind. Once again Muslims are trying to kill a Christian for converting. And none of them have said that it is wrong. Not even pro.

I’ve had dinner with muslims. I’ve worked with muslims. I have muslims for clients. Maybe they are all waiting for the right time to ambush me. But the bottom line is that most muslims are not interested in killing me. I understand there are radical fundamentlists who espouse violence and have more or less hijacked the religion. BUt if you cannot even find common ground on a internet chat board, what chance does the world have?

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Those same moderate Muslims who are so nice to you would not hesitate to accept killing apostates, old men marrying young girls, support Hamas and Hezbollah, persecution of religious minorities in their own countries, deny Israel’s right to exist etc.

Granted that most Muslims would not dream of killing anyone, but they share the same ideology as those who do. Do you think terrorists are born crazy? No. They start out as those very same moderate Muslims. Then something sparks them - maybe a personal crisis or a sense of indignation/injustice, then those very same moderate Muslim may tip over and ‘find Allah’.

And when they do find Allah they become jihadists.

So what separates the jihadists from the so-called moderate Muslim who wouldn’t harm a fly?

A thin veneer called humanity.

I understand this - having lived among Muslims for many years. I had to be very careful with what I said because even the slightest hint of criticism of their religion would cause them to blow up. And these are my relatives I’m talking about.

 

[Damascus]

I’ve had dinner with muslims. I’ve worked with muslims. I have muslims for clients. Maybe they are all waiting for the right time to ambush me. But the bottom line is that most muslims are not interested in killing me. I understand there are radical fundamentlists who espouse violence and have more or less hijacked the religion. BUt if you cannot even find common ground on a internet chat board, what chance does the world have?

I bet. You are worried about the almighty dollar and you could give a *&^% about anything else.

You think they like you?

You dont care if they do. You just want to play lets make a deal.

Only if you can make $$$$ doing it.

You seem to be in it for yourself. Not even for your religion.

Good luck man.

And may God bless you.

 

[Valke2]

I bet. You are worried about the almighty dollar and you could give a *&^% about anything else.

You think they like you?

You dont care if they do. You just want to play lets make a deal.

Only if you can make $$$$ doing it.

You seem to be in it for yourself. Not even for your religion.

Good luck man.

And may God bless you.

I know that you are trying to be antisemetic here, but I have no idea what you are trying to say. What have I posted that has anything to do with money, mine or anyone elses?

 

[Valke2]

Those same moderate Muslims who are so nice to you would not hesitate to accept killing apostates, old men marrying young girls, support Hamas and Hezbollah, persecution of religious minorities in their own countries, deny Israel’s right to exist etc.

Granted that most Muslims would not dream of killing anyone, but they share the same ideology as those who do. Do you think terrorists are born crazy? No. They start out as those very same moderate Muslims. Then something sparks them - maybe a personal crisis or a sense of indignation/injustice, then those very same moderate Muslim may tip over and ‘find Allah’.

And when they do find Allah they become jihadists.

So what separates the jihadists from the so-called moderate Muslim who wouldn’t harm a fly?

A thin veneer called humanity.

I understand this - having lived among Muslims for many years. I had to be very careful with what I said because even the slightest hint of criticism of their religion would cause them to blow up. And these are my relatives I’m talking about.

I’ll say what I said on another thread. These posts about Isalm tend to focus more on hatred of the religion then on any discussion, and as such, could subject the posters to immediate suspension under the rules here. That I, as a jew, find it necessary to continualy “defend” Islam here should give you an idea of just how hateful & hypociritcal these posts are.

 

[Jennifer123]

I’ll make it easy for you Damscus. This is the post I was replying to.

I answered your response to my post, but I don’t see any recognition of it, seems to me you would rather argue than engage in discussion.

 

[Valke2]

I answered your response to my post, but I don’t see any recognition of it, seems to me you would rather argue than engage in discussion.

I read your response. You essentialy said the the Church does not follow all the scripture of the OT. That’s fine. I think my responses to Damascus took your response into account. ANd if you can show me the line between debating and arguing here, I’d love to see it.

 

[uni]

The Popes throughout history have sanctioned and even ordered death for heresy and apostasy.

Numerous Church Councils have reinforced it.

St. Thomas Aquinas himself explicitly supported the practice.

What is official Church teaching, if not the statements of Popes, Councils, and theologians all saying the same thing for more than 1000 years?

But what Popes did have to do with Christianity?

 

[uni]

.

Granted that most Muslims would not dream of killing anyone, but they share the same ideology as those who do. Do you think terrorists are born crazy? No. They start out as those very same moderate Muslims. Then something sparks them - maybe a personal crisis or a sense of indignation/injustice, then those very same moderate Muslim may tip over and ‘find Allah’.

And when they do find Allah they become jihadists.

So what separates the jihadists from the so-called moderate Muslim who wouldn’t harm a fly?

A thin veneer called humanity.

I understand this - having lived among Muslims for many years. I had to be very careful with what I said because even the slightest hint of criticism of their religion would cause them to blow up. And these are my relatives I’m talking about.

If those Jihadists were not Mooslems but Christians then they would have become Crusaders or KKK and acted in the name of Jesus because their problem is as you rightly pointed out as “… something sparks them - maybe a personal crisis or a sense of indignation/injustice”. And this “a personal crisis or a sense of indignation/injustice” is the root cause and not their religion.

I don’t think you don’t know this fact but most likely you tend to bash religion of Mooslems.

It would be good if you atleast have some mercy on your own mind, thinking and heart if not on others.

Are you really a folower of Christ?

 

[cestusdei]

Valke,
We used to do business and be really friendly with Iran. Americans there said that changed overnight. Suddenly guys they had known and worked with for years spat at them as infidels. Maybe you are lucky and know a few who would spare you. But if you went on a vacation in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, or any other number of places you could well find your head being handed to you, literally. I will be delighted to make nice with Muslims. Just as soon as they stop persecuting and killing Christians.

Uni,
You should thank God for those crusaders or you would be praying toward Mecca right now. They defended Christian civilization against the Islamic jihad. They may have had their faults, but they were a response to Islamic aggression.

 

[Valke2]

Leviticus is not in the NT.

Go ahead. Make my day.

Find something in the NT.

I await your response.

my response is and was that Catholism has both the new and the “old” testament in their holy scipture. The origional “challenge” was to find something in the Christian sacred texts that advocated killing an apostate.

 

[Valke2]

Valke,
We used to do business and be really friendly with Iran. Americans there said that changed overnight. Suddenly guys they had known and worked with for years spat at them as infidels. Maybe you are lucky and know a few who would spare you. But if you went on a vacation in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, or any other number of places you could well find your head being handed to you, literally. I will be delighted to make nice with Muslims. Just as soon as they stop persecuting and killing Christians.

Uni,
You should thank God for those crusaders or you would be praying toward Mecca right now. They defended Christian civilization against the Islamic jihad. They may have had their faults, but they were a response to Islamic aggression.

I’ve never met a muslim who spit on me. I’m not a child. I understand there is violence in the world and that islamic fundamentalists thrive on violence. I also understand that most muslims are not such fundamentalists.

 

[LilyM]

Ummm … entertaining as this thread is guys … ces, you didn’t link to a news item in your original post. Please do so, then perhaps everyone can have something just a bit more substantial to discuss.

 

[cestusdei]

You can find it at www.persecution.org or www.sandmonkey.org. Also www.jihadwatch.org.

 

[Jennifer123]

my response is and was that Catholism has both the new and the “old” testament in their holy scipture. The origional “challenge” was to find something in the Christian sacred texts that advocated killing an apostate.

Which IMHO you didn’t find - the OT has been fulfilled in the NT. If you are talking about Christianity, you would need to really find such a command in the NT, regardless of what is said in the OT in regards to the “law”.

IMHO to just quote the OT is taking something out of context, which we can fully know because of the central authority within the Catholic Church, which we believe to hold the infallible authority on interpreting scripture. No where will you find an official doctrine of the Church advocating such violence.

This is unlike Islam and most non-Catholic religions that don’t have any central authority. Until there are more voices in Islam publically denouncing violence than advocating it, Islam will be defined by violence. Period.

 

[Valke2]

Which IMHO you didn’t find - the OT has been fulfilled in the NT. If you are talking about Christianity, you would need to really find such a command in the NT, regardless of what is said in the OT in regards to the “law”.

IMHO to just quote the OT is taking something out of context, which we can fully know because of the central authority within the Catholic Church, which we believe to hold the infallible authority on interpreting scripture. No where will you find an official doctrine of the Church advocating such violence.

This is unlike Islam and most non-Catholic religions that don’t have any central authority. Until there are more voices in Islam publically denouncing violence than advocating it, Islam will be defined by violence. Period.

You can say it has been “fullfilled” all you want. But what you are doing is no different than what a muslim does when confronted with a harsh verse in their sacred text. You are explaining why the text’s literal meaning is no longer applicable. That’s fine. But perhaps a muslim has a similar explanation for the verse you take issue with.

 

[Jennifer123]

But perhaps a muslim has a similar explanation for the verse you take issue with.

I’m sure there are…but where are they? Where is the central authority in Islam that can definitively interpret Quran verses? Why aren’t these Muslims protesting in the streets for peace by their breatheren?
Until I see that, I will continue to warn about the danger Islam posesses to the world. If it can’t or won’t police itself, someone has to for all of our sakes.

 

[Damascus]

You can say it has been “fullfilled” all you want. But what you are doing is no different than what a muslim does when confronted with a harsh verse in their sacred text. You are explaining why the text’s literal meaning is no longer applicable. That’s fine. But perhaps a muslim has a similar explanation for the verse you take issue with.

Dear Valke2,

Unfortunately you are again mistaken about Christian beliefs. First, the sarcasm in your quotes on fullfiled is annoying and bigoted.

Secondly, the OT was , I do not mean offense here- not a full revelation-
the scriptures slowly revealed more and more-

I am not sure how Jews consider all of the OT, and if it is all literal or not-
But Christians do not consider all of it literal. sorry
Dont want to offend you, but we dont.
It is not a matter of it not being applicable. Its more of a matter of looking at it for what it is.