Reparative Therapy: Attempting to Repair The "Gay Man". Good or bad?

[MindOverMatter2]

People have said that they have been cured from homosexuality. Others, both Christian and Atheist, think its dangerous and does more harm than Good.

Do you think sexual orientation can be changed?

Is Reparative theorapy good, or are private doctors and Christian organisations misleading young people into thinking that change is possible?

 

[ASimon]

People have said that they have been cured from homosexuality. Others, both Christian and Atheist, think its dangerous and does more harm than Good.

Do you think sexual orientation can be changed?

Is Reparative theorapy good, or are private doctors and Christian organisations misleading young people into thinking that change is possible?

I think certain people who sincerely want to change can be successfully “repaired” to the extent that they can abstain from having gay sex.

But I don’t think these people ever actually stop having those feelings. And that’s the danger to me. If you’re denying something that basic to who you are, it can be ultimately be destructive.

 

[grandfather]

People have said that they have been cured from homosexuality. Others, both Christian and Atheist, think its dangerous and does more harm than Good.

Do you think sexual orientation can be changed?

Is Reparative theorapy good, or are private doctors and Christian organisations misleading young people into thinking that change is possible?

If there are people who have successfully been treated with any therapy then the therapy is helpful. If chemo therapy cures a reasonable percentage of cancer patients the therapy is good. The people who undergo it suffer from it to try to obtain a greater good, but all do not benefit.

Presumably no patient suffering from a homosexual disorder undergoes a therapy to cure it against his or her will. No one forces them. They do it hoping to change and apparently some poeple claim it worked for them.

Those who disparage the therapy must assert that it does not work, despite the direct testimony of those claiming to be cured, either because they believe homosexuals can not change or be changed, or should not be offered assistance even though they want help, or that the condition is not disordered and should be encouraged.

 

[MindOverMatter2]

I think certain people who sincerely want to change can be successfully “repaired” to the extent that they can abstain from having gay sex.

But I don’t think these people ever actually stop having those feelings. And that’s the danger to me. If you’re denying something that basic to who you are, it can be ultimately be destructive.

I agree that people can successfully “abstain” and live generally happy lives despite not having sex.

Am I correct to assume you believe that the object of peoples attraction never actually changes; but rather homosexual attraction is something intrinsic to a person? What about people who experience fluidity in their sexual attraction? Some people say that their attractions change over the course of their lives from gender to gender and visa versa, just like their tastes in food.

For example; if I am only attracted to inanimate objects, then is this truly an irreparable part of who I am? Philosophically speaking; do we really have a rational basis for thinking this? And should we discount those people who claim to experience the contrary.

 

[Nimzovik]

2 kinds of Gay. Functional and Organic.

The functional model (perhaps due to poor modeling in youth or other trauma) may indeed be helped by therapy.
The organic (as per Biology) can not be reoriented. Would a straight person say one could be reoriented to homosexuality? The choices then are 1) Prayer for miracle - go to places like Lourdes etc. 2) Offer it up and adapt.

Perhaps hormone therapy or addressing an imbalance in the endocrine system may help in the Organic Model.

Just IMHO. I reiterate - opinion.

 

[SonCatcher]

People have said that they have been cured from homosexuality. Others, both Christian and Atheist, think its dangerous and does more harm than Good.

Do you think sexual orientation can be changed?

Is Reparative theorapy good, or are private doctors and Christian organisations misleading young people into thinking that change is possible?

There really isn’t enough to go on. If a person had entered a homosexual lifestyle primarily for its shock value or out of rebellion, he/she may not really have been attracted to persons of the same sex in the first place. These would be the only truly “successful cures”.

Bisexuals may learn to channel their energies in heterosexual ways. They likely would still struggle but with proper support should be able to adjust.

The rest are “irreformable” (meaning no amount of therapy could “cure” them). It is best if they can recognize this quickly as continuing attempts will only frustrate them. Their call is to single (celibate) life. Hopefully, there is sufficient community support for them to live out this life.

 

[MindOverMatter2]

2 kinds of Gay. Functional and Organic.

The functional model (perhaps due to poor modeling in youth or other trauma) may indeed be helped by therapy.

So somebody who thinks that they are bisexual or gay might not actually be bisexual or Gay? Could it be that their attraction is purely “pathological”, that it is a manifestation of sexual insecurities, and is only as persistent as the time that it goes untreated?

That’s interesting. That gives me some hope I think. The reason I say this is because I did not always experience attraction to the same sex. My earliest sense of attraction was to girls only. But I was bullied and emasculated as a boy. I was called a “poofter” at a young age, as if it was something to be expected of me, and I didn’t even know what it meant. I had an almost overwhelming fear of girls because I was attracted to them, but I felt outcast, less than the other boys, and I was even bullied and beaten up by girls when I was a child. I was resented by my dad; I remember clearly that it was because I was not a man’s man. He was ashamed and embarrassed by me. I remember the prettiest girl in secondary school had a crush on me and I was too scared to deal with it. I only began to experience a real sense of attraction to the same sex around the ages of 17, and 19 was when it was really apparent to me that I had attraction to men; but I had an equally strong if not stronger attraction to women.

The reason I bring this up is because I had a fear of becoming gay when all these feelings were developing, and I was wondering if my attractions are just a pathological response to being demoralised, emasculated, and humiliated as a man.

Don’t get me wrong. I am fully prepared to accept that it may be biological and is something I am going to have to live with; but I am exploring the possibility of reparation. Something about what you said rings true to me.

Just IMHO. I reiterate - opinion.

Your opinion is welcome. God bless.

 

[ASimon]

Am I correct to assume you believe that the object of peoples attraction never actually changes; but rather homosexual attraction is something intrinsic to a person? What about people who experience fluidity in their sexual attraction? Some people say that their attractions change over the course of their lives from gender to gender and visa versa, just like their tastes in food.

I have difficulty crediting self-reports of “ex-gays” who claim they used to live a homosexual lifestyle, but have since been repaired so successfully that they don’t even have sexual feelings for people of their own gender anymore. I’d be more likely to believe that ex-gays who now claim to be having fulfilling heterosexual relationships were most likely bi-sexual in the first place.

I have a tough time believing these reports for one reason - if you’ve been through a therapy program designed to stop you from having gay sex, it doesn’t follow that these sorts of feelings would be greeted as viable, healthy alternatives. So it seems to me that even a person who can successfully abstain from homosexual activity would be loathe to admit having these feelings.

For example; if I am only attracted to inanimate objects, then is this truly an irreparable part of who I am? Philosophically speaking; do we really have a rational basis for thinking this? And should we discount those people who claim to experience the contrary.

If your attraction to inanimate objects was due to some anomaly in your brain structure or chemistry (and it would almost certainly have to be), then yes, I would call it an irreparable part of who you are - to the extent that we can’t change your brain structure or chemistry. The key here is, that therapy can have the effect of changing brain chemistry (if not structure). The problem with reparative therapy is that it seems to fail far more often than it succeeds, and it turn causes more problems than it solves.

 

[kch86]

Do you think sexual orientation can be changed?

Maybe. Not in all cases.

Is Reparative theorapy good, or are private doctors and Christian organisations misleading young people into thinking that change is possible?

It’s good and should be available to those who want to give it a try. I don’t believe that it could cause harm.

As to the individual motivations of the organisations offering or recommending it, I cannot say.

Personally, even though my homosexual inclination is disordered, could lead me towards sin and means I must live a celibate life, if I could take a pill to change it in an instant, I wouldn’t.

Things are not that rosy on the other side, and I quite like what this burden has made me.

If there were such a pill, however, I’d do everything I could to make it available to those who want to take it.

I support Reparative Therapy. Even if it’s not particularly effective, its acceptance as a legitimate therapeutic method would mean more research would go into it and it could become more effective with time.

 

[MindOverMatter2]

I have difficulty crediting self-reports of “ex-gays” who claim they used to live a homosexual lifestyle, but have since been repaired so successfully that they don’t even have sexual feelings for people of their own gender anymore. I’d be more likely to believe that ex-gays who now claim to be having fulfilling heterosexual relationships were most likely bi-sexual in the first place.

But why? Are you saying they didn’t know they where bisexual; that they were “confused”?

In any case, there are people who have no problem with being gay, and yet admit to “fluidity” in their attractions.

I am just trying to figure out whether or not you are saying what you are saying because you have a bias on this issue. Or do you have a genuine reason to doubt these people?

 

[Nimzovik]

I can not speak intelligently about ‘Restorative Therapy.’ I would research many therapeutic modalities and reputations of Therapists and examine closely benefitial results of said investigated therapies. I would talk to those that have been involved in each. Remember - their story may not be your story. People all respond differently. Note as well I would most certainly involve God in the process in terms of picking a Therapy/Therapist and having God being involved in a Therapy. Much Prayer. Prayer for direction, prayer for supplication, prayer for His will. Be like the ‘Widow’ that would not give the Judge (God) any sleep untill justice prevalied as spoken of in the Scriptures.

That said what harm (providing your are involved in a ‘good’ therapy’) can there be exploring the Functional Model? Rmemeber - heaven is yours regardless when in the Will of God.

Note as well. You may not be an ‘either or type of person.’ I guess the question is -which side does the prepoderance fall on? If you do not like the side you fall on then fight valiantly in Prayer. You have nothing to loose - yes?

Discalimer: I reiterate. This is only opinion. Consult your health care professional.

Just from what I am hearing there may indeed be some Functional dynamics. Again - just an opinion.

 

[MindOverMatter2]

Personally, even though my homosexual inclination is disordered, could lead me towards sin and means I must live a celibate life, if I could take a pill to change it in an instant, I wouldn’t.
.

I think I would take the pill. But I have to say that I have a lot of respect for what you have said here . If I am completely honest, my “disorder” has in some ways made me a better person than perhaps I would have been if I didn’t have those inclinations.

In Star Trek V: The Final Frontier, kirk is asked by cybok if he wants his pain taken away; and he adamantly replies that he doesn’t want his pain taken away; his pain is what makes him who he is, it is his strength.

Sometimes good comes out of disorder, and perhaps God has good reasons for allowing such an infliction to befall both of us.

God bless and thank you for your message.

 

[Nimzovik]

I personally have had to deal with severe illnesses in my life. I have always chosen to fight till I drop. Is your condition the will of God? Hmmmmmm… St. Paul had a condition he sought the Lord for repeatedly. He was told (by heaven) that he would have to live with the condition for the Glory of Heaven.

Ergo– until I am told that I too am to live with the condition by heaven, I will give heaven no sleep. I will not assume it is the Will (deliberate and direct command of) Heaven that I am to suffer thusly.

We do have an adversary - yes?

 

[johnnyjones]

The faulty logic is in the mind. People are gay because the claim is their minds tell them that. This is what they believe. Since when must we always do what the mind tells us?Thats dangerous. The mind is not a fact machine, it is a thinking “machine”. Think of all the sins of the flesh this mind game could be applied to. As late as the 1960 the AMA classified homosexuality as abnormal. The difference today is that the culture dictates that being gay is good and acceptable.

Even if you could prove a person was “born gay” it would be irrelevant. People are born with all types of ailments yet they generally pursue curing or overcoming it. The exception is in the area of homosexuality and other gender “confusion”.

The scriptures in Romans 1 talk about giving yourself over to a reprobate ‘mind’. Jesus restores people in the scriptures to their RIGHT 'mind". Giving yourself over is phenomenon that we are dealing with today (and back then). Willingness is the key. It is then an “attempted repair” can take place.

 

[MindOverMatter2]

themmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Do you have anything else to add?

 

[ASimon]

But why? Are you saying they didn’t know they where bisexual; that they were “confused”?

I find that easier to believe that this notion that Jim was 100% gay, went to Reparative Therapy, and is now 100% straight.

In any case, there are people who have no problem with being gay, and yet admit to “fluidity” in their attractions.

Sure. I think the most likely explanation for this is that they’re bi-sexual. But we shouldn’t necessarily confuse finding a new partner of a different gender than a previous one with “fluidity” in attractions. It’s just changing partners - something people do every day. Many people, as long as they’re committed to a single person, don’t even think about other people as potential partners. So, if that same person says they used be in a same-sex relationship, and are now in an opposite-sex relationship with no interest in any same-sex partners, I don’t see anything strange here. To me, they’re not former gay people who are now straight. They’re bi-sexual people who happen to be monogamous.

 

[ivebeenshown]

Good.

I see no reason to believe sexuality is inborn, genetic, or permanent. I believe it is an issue of conditioning.

One thing that sets it apart is that sexual arousal and even pleasure may be obtained by mere thought, whereas with something like candy or heroin, the substance must actually be ingested for effect. This means that to condition one’s sexuality, one must put all their effort into shunning all thoughts of undesirable sexual activity to distance oneself from that condition.

It’s just altogether more difficult due to the sexual properties of the human body.

 

[kch86]

I see no reason to believe sexuality is inborn, genetic, or permanent. I believe it is an issue of conditioning.

I don’t believe sexuality is usually inborn and it is certainly not genetic. To suggest that it might be the latter is preposterous. But how do you suggest I might have become homosexual by conditioning? Based on most of the homosexuals I’ve talked to, I rather think it’s quite typically a psychological issue related to one’s upbringing.

This means that to condition one’s sexuality, one must put all their effort into shunning all thoughts of undesirable sexual activity to distance oneself from that condition.
It’s just altogether more difficult due to the sexual properties of the human body.

I think the majority of homosexuals have tried that. Suppressing it doesn’t tackle the underlying cause and it doesn’t suddenly make you heterosexual.

From the subjective perspective of many a homosexual, the orientation, no matter how it arose, seems unchangeable. If change is possible, he certainly needs some sort of help to do it.

 

[ivebeenshown]

…how do you suggest I might have become homosexual by conditioning? Based on most of the homosexuals I’ve talked to, I rather think it’s quite typically a psychological issue related to one’s upbringing.

Conditioning is psychological. It’s even taught in psychology 101… see: Pavlov’s dog, etc.

 

[Nimzovik]

Some people are born Tall. Some are born smart. Some are born with an over abundance of a particular hormone/endocrine system that conflicts with their gender. Some are indeed born Gay. We as Catholics often do not like to admit this methinks. This does not mean that said Gay people are condemed to live the Gay Life Style. Some Chose abstinence and service. Some pray for healing and recieve such. Some are still making their choices and their stand.

Biologically determined Gays have to make their choice for heaven much as straight people do to stay monogamous/ celibate for heaven.

They need our support just like everyone does. Just as we need support with our own issues.

Our Job is to be the love of Christ for all those that struggle for the good.

Obnoxiously Officious regards - Nimzovik.