Report: "Massachusetts Town Legalizes Polygamy Using Same Arguments For Gay Marriage,"

[Freddy]

I gave plenty of practical reasons in post 132.

Not in this thread. There was nothing there. And next to nothing in the two links just above this. If that’s all you’ve got then there’s not much to add. But good to see that you’re concerned about the practical reasons. Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[27lw]

27lw:

I gave plenty of practical reasons in post 132.

Not in this thread. There was nothing there. And next to nothing in the two links just above this. If that’s all you’ve got then there’s not much to add. But good to see that you’re concerned about the practical reasons. Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

“When children are raised in such marriages, they’re worse off than in a traditional marriage.
Also, can the USA afford to pay benefits to more than one spouse per person? Let’s say a Muslim man has two, three or four wives. Let’s say that’s twelve children. How well is this man supporting his children / wives / households? What if he were to die – how would the US pay those survivors benefits / Medicare etc on a large scale?”

Here’s another link:

The polygamy tax

Who Foots Bill For Polygamist Communities? - CBS News

https://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/archive/2013/09/24/on-the-edge-talk-is-cheap-polygamy-isnt/

The Social Costs of Abandoning the Meaning of Marriage | The Heritage Foundation

https://ecommons.luc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1005&context=social_justice

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

27lw:

I gave plenty of practical reasons in post 132.

Not in this thread. There was nothing there. And next to nothing in the two links just above this. If that’s all you’ve got then there’s not much to add. But good to see that you’re concerned about the practical reasons. Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

"When children are raised in such marriages, they’re worse off than in a traditional marriage.

You seem only concerned about the financial aspects. Which would apply to all marriages. Unless you are financially irresponsible you have the number of children that you can care for. There’s nothing to indicate that someone who would prefer a polygamous relationship would be any more irresponsible than a normal relationship.

In fact, if you have three people inthe relationship you could have two earning and one at home.

 

[27lw]

I suspect that these relationships are not as long lasting as a typical marriage, and the mess of divorce is going to be far worse than the usual divorce.
If you have 3,4,5 people with a variety of children born from various twosomes of that, it’s could be an endless round of custody and support court dates. Far more of a mess than typical marriage.
Just for starters.

 

[fredystairs]

I believe that in the past, you’ve said that you are an atheist. Is that correct? I’m just trying to refresh my memory.

Pax

@Freddy
Second request

 

[Freddy]

I suspect that these relationships are not as long lasting as a typical marriage, and the mess of divorce is going to be far worse than the usual divorce.
If you have 3,4,5 people with a variety of children born from various twosomes of that, it’s could be an endless round of custody and support court dates. Far more of a mess than typical marriage.
Just for starters.

That must be right if you suspect it.

Judge: ‘Opening remarks?’
Defence: ‘I suspect my client is innocent your honour. The defence rests’.
Jury foreman: ‘Not guilty!’

 

[Freddy]

fredystairs:

I believe that in the past, you’ve said that you are an atheist. Is that correct? I’m just trying to refresh my memory.

Pax

@Freddy
Second request

My apologies, fredy. I forgot about your question. Yes, an atheist. Raised an Anglican.

I thought it was in my profile but I thought wrong. I’ve now updated it.

 

[27lw]

27lw:

I suspect that these relationships are not as long lasting as a typical marriage, and the mess of divorce is going to be far worse than the usual divorce.
If you have 3,4,5 people with a variety of children born from various twosomes of that, it’s could be an endless round of custody and support court dates. Far more of a mess than typical marriage.
Just for starters.

That must be right if you suspect it.

Judge: ‘Opening remarks?’
Defence: ‘I suspect my client is innocent your honour. The defence rests’.
Jury foreman: ‘Not guilty!’

Oh, do you have some proof that polyandry is more long-lasting than trad marriage?
Thanks.
I notice you didn’t comment on the links.

 

[fredystairs]

Thanks. I really need to look at people’s profile. Getting forgetful I guess.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

27lw:

I suspect that these relationships are not as long lasting as a typical marriage, and the mess of divorce is going to be far worse than the usual divorce.
If you have 3,4,5 people with a variety of children born from various twosomes of that, it’s could be an endless round of custody and support court dates. Far more of a mess than typical marriage.
Just for starters.

That must be right if you suspect it.

Judge: ‘Opening remarks?’
Defence: ‘I suspect my client is innocent your honour. The defence rests’.
Jury foreman: ‘Not guilty!’

Oh, do you have some proof that polyandry is more long-lasting than trad marriage?
Thanks.
I notice you didn’t comment on the links.

None at all. But I’m not arguing that it lasts longer. You are arguing that it doesn’t.

 

[AlNg]

In 2014, 30% of aborting women identified themselves as Protestant and 24% identified themselves as Catholic (AGI).

I assume you mean in the USA? If so, and if the statistics are accurate, then that statistic means that American Catholic women have abortions at a much higher rate than do American Protestants. It might not seem so, but consider:
48% of Americans are Protestant
23% of Americans are Catholic.
If American Protestant women and American Catholic women were having abortions at the same rate, you would see 48% of aborting women identifying themselves as Protestant and 23% identifying themselves as Catholic.
If Catholics want to stop abortions, why don’t they reduce the number of Catholic women who are having abortions and get it down to at least the same level as for Protestants? Of course, it should be a lot lower.

 

[AlNg]

If you have 3,4,5 people with a variety of children born from various twosomes of that, it’s could be an endless round of custody and support court dates.

I don’t see why the number of support court dates would be endless.

 

[27lw]

27lw:

If you have 3,4,5 people with a variety of children born from various twosomes of that, it’s could be an endless round of custody and support court dates.

I don’t see why the number of support court dates would be endless.

Perhaps I exaggerated. Perhaps “a very great number” would be more accurate than “endless”. With the sheer number of putative parents involved, the conflict between them, the shifting alliances and household arrangements, the modifications to support and custody could be a very great number.

 

[o_mlly]

if the statistics are accurate, then that statistic means that American Catholic women have abortions at a much higher rate than do American Protestants. It might not seem so, but consider:

No. Please read the entire post. To wit:

Women who self-identify as Catholic must be questioned further. Do they regularly go to Mass? Do they agree with Church teachings? A “No Answer” would categorize them as “Nominal Catholics” which is synonymous with “non-Catholic”

Religion and Fertility in Western Europe: Trends Across Cohorts in Britain, France and the Netherlands - PMC

Some scholars have argued that religious identification is becoming less a matter of adherence to church teachings and regulations, and more a matter of belonging to a shared cultural heritage (Hervieu-Léger 1990, 2000; Inglis 2007; Pace 2007). This may especially be the case within Catholicism, as increasing numbers of self-identified Catholics do not share the views of the Catholic Church leaders on sexuality, which may also account for the fall in attendance (Hout and Greeley 1987; Pace 2007). Similarly, Day (2011: 72) has concluded that many people identify as Christians simply because they were baptized or attended church when they were younger, or since it is closely associated with national or ethnic identity (Day 2011; Voas and Bruce 2004). However, compared with practicing religious people, nominally religious individuals are less likely to consider religion as an important source of guidance in everyday lives (Day 2011; Voas 2009).

 

[Dan123]

No. Please read the entire post. To wit:

Women who self-identify as Catholic must be questioned further. Do they regularly go to Mass? Do they agree with Church teachings? A “No Answer” would categorize them as “Nominal Catholics” which is synonymous with “non-Catholic”

So just more true Scotsmen stuff. How many actual Catholics do you suppose there are? That meets all your criteria? Attend service regularly, accept all church teachings, etc?

 

[Rau]

How many actual Catholics do you suppose there are? That meets all your criteria? Attend service regularly, accept all church teachings, etc?

What would you estimate? < 20% of the self-classified? I can only guess. This may not even be something one could accurately determine by survey.

Consider a baby born to Greek parents in Greece. She is Greek. Soon after birth, her parents move to another country where they assimilate, speak English at home, and the child undertakes no Greek language training. The child remains Greek, but what does she know of Greek culture and the Greek way of life?

So it is with many Catholics - baptized as babies, but brought up in a different environment.

Or in other cases, brought up as Catholic, but in time drifting away.

When these tick the box on the census form ‘Catholic’ - what do we understand that to mean?

 

[AlNg]

When these tick the box on the census form ‘Catholic’ - what do we understand that to mean?

The Vatican says that there are 1.3 billion Catholics.

Women who self-identify as Catholic must be questioned further. Do they regularly go to Mass? Do they agree with Church teachings? A “No Answer” would categorize them as “Nominal Catholics” which is synonymous with “non-Catholic”

Do you know more than the Vatican?

Vatican report: Number of Catholics worldwide rises to 1.3 billion - Rome Reports

My understanding is that once you are baptized a Catholic, you remain so even if you are not excommunicated. Do you claim that this is false and that nominal Catholics are non-Catholic and are outside the Catholic Church? Why are so many Roman Catholics disagreeing with Church teachings and not attending Mass regularly. Why don’t Catholics do something about that and lower the number of abortions among its own members instead of demanding that Protestants and atheists lower their abortion numbers? Wouldn’t it be a good example for Catholics to attend Mass regularly, follow church teachings on artificial birth control and lower dramatically the number of abortions that they are having?

 

[Rau]

The Vatican says that there are 1.3 billion Catholics.

And I am a Canadian who has never had a home in Canada.

 

[AlNg]

And I am a Canadian who has never had a home in Canada.

Does that mean that you think that the Vatican is lying or misrepresenting the number of Catholics worldwide? If not lying, then misrepresenting the statistics for some reason? Why would the Vatican misrepresent its statistics on the number of Catholics in the world today?

 

[Rau]

Why would the Vatican misrepresent its statistics on the number of Catholics in the world today?

It wouldn’t - or perhaps it could. However, It can only count available data. How many Catholics reject the idea that abortion is wrong? I’ve no idea.