Report: "Massachusetts Town Legalizes Polygamy Using Same Arguments For Gay Marriage,"
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Rau
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The earlier discussion sought to distinguish between those self-identifying as Catholic (which I’m guessing to be similar to, but somewhat less than the number of baptized Catholics), and those who seek to adhere to the catholic faith (“committed Catholics”?) The latter is not readily countable. I imagine there is only 1 stat that is readily countable - baptized Catholics.
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Rau
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Possibly you’ve come into this part of the discussion late? I was drawing a comparison.
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AlNg
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So it is only 20% of 1.3 billion who are Catholics as the others are nominal Catholics, which omilly has said means that they are non-Catholic?
(S)he mentioned the abortion statistics. I don’t see how you can hope to stop abortions among atheists and others, if you don’t do something about the nominal Catholics? The statistics (s)he gave show that the rate at which Catholics have abortions is much higher than that of Protestants. Now you claim that they are not Catholics, but that is not what the Vatican says. Why not have all Catholics set a good example and stop the use of artificial contraception and abortion and then by your good example, show that it is possible for Catholics to obey the teachings of the Church and for Catholic women not to have abortions. Yes, it is a good idea for Protestants and atheists to stop having abortions. I agree with that. But if Protestants see that Catholics have abortions in greater numbers (proportionate to their population), than do Protestants, and if Protestants see so many (80% ?) of Catholics falling away, would it be fair expect that Protestants and others have a higher moral standard?
Getting back to polygamy: i understand that many of the Old Testament prophets did practice polygamy? Was it OK then, but not OK now? Or was it wrong for Moses and others?
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Freddy
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It’s about 50:50. Views about abortion among Catholics - Religion in America: U.S. Religious Data, Demographics and Statistics | Pew Research CenterAlNg:
It wouldn’t - or perhaps it could. However, It can only count available data. How many Catholics reject the idea that abortion is wrong? I’ve no idea.
Now whether that’s 50% of all Catholics or 50% of ‘true Catholics’ I don’t know. It does mean that if we take the 20% figure mentioned elsewhere as being the percentage of ‘true Catholics’ then the percentage who thinks it’s always wrong is about 10%.
Anyway, imagine being lectured about the evils of drinking by someone from a group that demands abstinence. And then finding out that half the members of the group are out every night hitting the bars.
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AlNg
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I can see the problem here, especially if people outside the group are not hitting the bars that frequently.
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JSAD
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Just because the bible records it doesn’t mean God approves it. Marriage is between one man and woman . It’s the best for family and society. Period.
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Freddy
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Who can argue against that…
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AlNg
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Mormons.
If God does not approve of polygamy, why did God give David more than one wife?
Do you think that God made a mistake when He gave David more than one wife?
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o_mlly
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Apparently you do not understand the fallacy that you so often cite. It’s only applicable as a rejoinder to a properly refuted universal claim. Since no one makes the universal claim that no one who self-identifies as Catholic has ever procured a direct abortion, citing the “no true Scotsman” fallacy is nonsense.
The Church proposes, she does not impose. The strongest (medicinal) discipline, automatic excommunication, already applies. If one procures or provides a direct abortion they excommunicate themselves even though they may still check the box that reads, “Catholic”.
Nope.
Your math is in need of a tuneup. The 2014 stats that I cited report just the opposite. Applying the proportion of abortions across the population based on religious self-identification does not change the rate.
In 2014, the stats show that self-identified Protestants had 295,558 clinical abortions in 2014 (does not include hospital or self-induced abortions) as opposed to self-identified Catholics who had 204,370 clinical abortions.
How many of those self-identified Catholics who had a direct abortion are self-excommunicated? All of them. The number would be increased by their spouses, if married, and those Catholics who assisted in effecting the abortion.
How many self-identified Catholic practice their faith? An estimate would be the proportion of those self-identified Catholics who do not without serious reason assist at Mass on Sunday or other days of obligation. That number is 61%.
So no actual Catholic had a direct abortion in 2014 and the adjusted number for actual vs. nominal Catholics in the USA is 8% and not 20.8%.
The more important point is what do the various religions teach as the truth on the morality of direct abortions regardless of whether members accept the teaching. The Catholic Church is clear and steadfast in her position. Not so for the various Protestant denominations. Unfortunately, they have altered their teaching to accommodate a “stiff necked” people.
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AlNg
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Really? I thought that you were Catholic even if you were excommunicated? You can still go to confession.
Can non-Catholics go to confession and receive absolution in a Catholic Church?
The fact that a Catholic does not go to Mass regularly does not make them a non-Catholic because they can still go to confession and receive absolution, whereas a non-Catholic would not be able to receive absolution.
Why not work to increase weekly attendance at Mass?
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o_mlly
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Why do you continue to quibble? The definition of an actual Catholic is a practicing Catholic. What is your point?
You can claim that all actual Catholics are acknowledged sinners. You cannot claim that the Catholic Church teaches that direct abortion is moral.
What is your denomination? Does your religious affiliation teach that direct abortions are moral?
Why not decry the evilness of direct abortions regardless of religious affiliation?
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JSAD
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I’m curious …where exactly did God ‘give’ David more than one wife?
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AlNg
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I don’t see how if a person does not attend Mass regularly that would make him a non-Catholic. Non-Catholics cannot go to confession and receive absolution.
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AlNg
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In the Holy Bible.
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JSAD
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Great . That was helpful 
!
!
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AlNg
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2 Samuel 12: 8Great . That was helpful
“I gave you your master’s house and his wives and the kingdoms of Israel and Judah. And if that had not been enough, I would have given you much, much more.”
New Living Translation
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o_mlly
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And I don’t see your point?
Do you choose not to disclose your belief on the morality of direct abortion?
You can claim that all actual Catholics are acknowledged sinners. You cannot claim that the Catholic Church teaches that direct abortion is moral.
What is your denomination? Does your religious affiliation teach that direct abortions are moral?
AlNg:
Why not decry the evilness of direct abortions regardless of religious affiliation?
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AlNg
Guest
The point is that if a Roman Catholic does not attend Mass regularly, I don’t see why that would make him a non-Catholic, as you have claimed? A non-Catholic cannot receive absolution in confession, but a Catholic who does not attend Mass regularly is still a Catholic since he can go to confession and receive absolution.
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o_mlly
Guest
Quibble on, friend.
I wrote that two follow-up questions on survey’s that allow interviewees to self-identify as Catholics are necessary to differentiate practicing Catholics from non-practicing Catholics.
Why is such a differentiation necessary? To keep simple-minded people from assuming (as you have) that to self-identify as Catholic is equivalent to being Catholic. The literature supports my claim: 69% culturally claim to be Catholic but do not practice. You choose to ignore that fact.
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