Report: the law cracks down on Finnish politician who believes homosexual acts are sinful; she warns of 'self-censorship' among Christians

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Kaninchen said:
This is where your ability to understand Finnish is such an advantage. I’m stuck with the reporting efforts of what might well be the ‘usual suspects’ of immediate outrage for all I know.
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It was in the news links of prior posts.
But I guess some on CAF are perfectly fine with people getting interrogated for hours by the police over innocuous posts.
 
fide said:
2Th 2:9 The coming of the lawless one by the activity of Satan will be with all power and with pretended signs and wonders,
2Th 2:10 and with all wicked deception for those who are to perish, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
2Th 2:11 Therefore God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe what is false,
2Th 2:12 so that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
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Hopefully you’re not in Finland. You might be asked to visit a police station for a few hours in order to be interviewed by the cops.
 
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ATraveller said:
It was in the news links of prior posts.
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Well, a version of it was.
ATraveller said:
But I guess some on CAF are perfectly fine with people getting interrogated for hours by the police over innocuous posts.
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I guess some on CAF are perfectly fine with accepting, as the full story, reports from what might be the ‘usual suspects’ of immediate outrage. For all I know it could all be based on original reportage by some Finnish equivalent of Lifesitenews - which, to some, may seem entirely prudent, obviously, but not to everybody.
 
This does not surprise me. Only the other week, Finland’s prime minister was photographed with quite a lot of her clothes missing.
 
I don’t think it’s modest and I don’t think it looks prime ministerial.
 
Freddy said:
And at no time does it lay down how the material is meant to be taught. There is no instructions to any schools that they should follow any specific line of thought
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Ok. But that’s how it starts. It’s called incrementalism or salami tactics.
 
I am not here to defend the First Lady’s choice of career or fashion. Speaking of foreign leaders, I was going to say that I always admired Margaret Thatcher. She always conveyed a great amount of elegance and dignity. I remember she looked incredible at President Reagan’s funeral when she was 79 years old. She was a very attractive woman too, not that that’s relevant to her abilities as a prime minster.

As for Boris Johnson, I am not sure how he manages to have all these women, including, now, a very pretty young lady about half his age who is apparently clever and highly educated to boot and courageously helped to put away one of Britain’s most notorious serial sex offenders. Let’s hope he quits philandering while he’s ahead and that Miss Symonds helps him in his journey back to the Catholic Church.
 
Tasteless, I agree. Like most American Catholics, my sympathies are firmly with the Irish, and I would love to see an independent and united Ireland. There tends to be good and bad in everyone, especially when you are looking at world leaders like Mrs. Thatcher. Mostly we admire her for pulling Britain back from the brink of the abyss of socialism and for her role in the downfall of European communism.
 
Not my leader, I live in the UK but I’m not British and Thatcher would be loathed in many Irish households to put it mildly. Some Irish people stood and cheered when she died I can assure you that, my father and I viewed that as in bad taste but there were also no tears shed when she passed either. The day she died I was on a construction site and many of the workers were Welsh and Scots and when they heard she was dead people were cheering for ages and pumping fists in the air. Not my style and I wouldn’t do it but I understood why they did it, especially the Welsh workers.

[/quote]

I’m Welsh. And it’s not really my style either. But her passing was no loss to me. She gutted so many Welsh communities. And offered no sympathy for her actions. There was no sympathy for her when she died.
 
Maximian said:
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Freddy:
And at no time does it lay down how the material is meant to be taught. There is no instructions to any schools that they should follow any specific line of thought
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Ok. But that’s how it starts. It’s called incrementalism or salami tactics.
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Maybe it’s best to keep children in ignorance about these things, eh? If your child asks you about same sex marriage do you refuse to tell her because the facts are to be considered a slippery slope? Maybe tell them nothing about facism. Or sex. Or drugs. Who knows where it will end up!

What facts you tell a child and how you tell them are two entirely different things. Your opinions will guide your child’s development up to a certain age. The facts are necessary to allow them to develop their own.
 
Freddy said:
Maybe it’s best to keep children in ignorance about these things, eh? If your child asks you about same sex marriage do you refuse to tell her because the facts are to be considered a slippery slope? Maybe tell them nothing about facism. Or sex. Or drugs. Who knows where it will end up!
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You are misunderstanding my point. I am not talking of the merits or demerits of the curriculum proposed. Im talking about how governments move from recommendations to coercion.
 
Maximian said:
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Freddy:
Maybe it’s best to keep children in ignorance about these things, eh? If your child asks you about same sex marriage do you refuse to tell her because the facts are to be considered a slippery slope? Maybe tell them nothing about facism. Or sex. Or drugs. Who knows where it will end up!
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You are misunderstanding my point. I am not talking of the merits or demerits of the curriculum proposed. Im talking about how governments move from recommendations to coercion.
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They are recommending that children be informed. Would you prefer that they weren’t? Would you prefer that they are told nothing about aspects of society with which you disagree?

If your child asks about same sex marriage, do you tell her about it or ignore the question? I’d imagine that you’d give her the facts and then give your opinion. Is giving her the facts part of a ‘slippery slope’.

The government isn’t in the business of teaching morality. That’s your job. Their job is to make sure that the next generation is well informed. And I sincerely hope they are succesful because there are too many indications that this one isn’t.
 
Freddy said:
They are recommending that children be informed. Would you prefer that they weren’t?
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I would prefer governments to keep their grubby hands off the school extra-curriculum, full stop.
 
Maximian said:
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Freddy:
They are recommending that children be informed. Would you prefer that they weren’t?
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I would prefer governments to keep their grubby hands off the school extra-curriculum, full stop.
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There needs to be a standardised system for all subjects for all ages across all schools in all areas. And it’s not limited to maths and chemistry etc. Education is more then the three r’s. If your child is attending a government school or a school that is funded by the government then you’d need to expect that. In fact, I’m sure that you realise that.

And the term ‘grubby hands’ is a nice indication of your views on this.
 
Kaninchen said:
I guess some on CAF are perfectly fine with accepting, as the full story, reports from what might be the ‘usual suspects’ of immediate outrage. For all I know it could all be based on original reportage by some Finnish equivalent of Lifesitenews - which, to some, may seem entirely prudent, obviously, but not to everybody.
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Unlike some, I have shared this story before and did my own research before posting it.
I don’t know who else you consider to be “the usual suspects” but it wasn’t from a lifesitenews equivalent. We also have the International Lutheran Council* confirming the details related to a separate investigation because the head of an affiliate Lutheran denomination (which the politician is not a member of) interrogated for his connection to a pamphlet the politician wrote.
Not only that, the news sites above are nothing like those of lifesitenews for those who are familiar with the Christian news market.
The details are no different from that of Finnish news sites including that of the public broadcaster.


A rough translation:
Räsänen’s writing “As a man and a woman he created them” was a statement about sexuality and marriage related to the Bible and its interpretation. The police have previously decided not to open a preliminary investigation because there was no reason to suspect a crime.

Following the police decision, the public prosecutor was contacted asking for a re-assessment. According to the public prosecutor, there is reason to suspect incitement against a group of people by degrading homosexuals in a way that violates their dignity.
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*Just to ensure there’s no confusion, the International Lutheran Council is not anything like LifeSiteNews


 
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JoeFreedom said:
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Freddy:
They are simpmy meant to be informed .
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This is just assinine. Why not inform them on all manner of things. Pedophilia, how to rig elections, how to rob a bank, how to cheat on your wife.

You know. To be informed.
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Well done, Joe. You get first place for mentioning the sexual assault of children as a comparison to homosexuality. It normally happens before we get to three figures in the post count so you got in relatively early there.
 
As usual Freddy you fail to see the flaw in your initial logic and then attack a strawman when you cannot rebut with a solid response. Well done on your argumentation fails.
 
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JoeFreedom said:
As usual Freddy you fail to see the flaw in your initial logic and then attack a strawman when you cannot rebut with a solid response. Well done on your argumentation fails.
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I’m not sure if you know that civil unions have been granted to same sex couples in New Zealand for over 15 years. And marriages between same sex couples for a number of years.

Now if you live in NZ you can, I guess, pretend that the vast majority of your fellow countrymen don’t see any problem with it, ignore that it’s entirely legal (whilst still disagreeing with the morality of the matter) and pretend it doesn’t exist. Or you can face the facts (whilst still disagreeing with the morality).

The position of the Min of Education is that schools should be able to address any questions that their pupils have about ssm (and other matters that you might not actually support from a moral perspective) and that they should be informed of the social make up of New Zealand society. And quite possibly why changes have been made to social institutions over the years.

The morality of the changes that have occured is, I would suggest, a matter for parents and for the church and for Catholic institutions. So I would imagine that a Catholic school would inform their students of the current situation and give them all the facts that they would need and then, separately, inform them of the church’s position.

Personally, I would support them in doing that. Both of my children went to Catholic schools and my wife and I had zero problems in having the position of the church explained to them in various ways in regards to morality as Catholics perceive it. They left school all the better for it - fully informed of a variety of views coupled with all the information they needed to make their own personal decisions.
 
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