Republican hopefuls in TV debate

[Pork_Roll]

Can you point to an instance in which Romney or Huntsman did something wrong because of the Mormon religion? I think the burden of proof is on you to make your case. So far, you have failed to do so.

Romney has got a very reasoned platform. He has some good ideas I suppose. I’d certainly vote for him over Obama, but that says little. He’s a good guy by all appearances.

 

[ishii]

Romney has got a very reasoned platform. He has some good ideas I suppose. I’d certainly vote for him over Obama, but that says little. He’s a good guy by all appearances.

The thing is, I am not a huge enthusiastic supporter of Romney either - but not because of his Mormonism, but because of his fairly recent conversion to conservatism. I think the jury is still out on whether he is an authentic conservative. The field seems to be weaker than in the past, but then again, the incumbent is vying with Jimmy Carter for the title of worst president in recent history. I really don’t see anyone but Romney getting the nomination, and he has performed well in the debates.

Ishii

 

[rlg94086]

If it makes you feel better because I’m not a card carrying republican to call me names than go for it.

I didn’t call you any names, I described the sentiment you expressed. It also has nothing to do with your political party. There are Republicans who share your bigoted viewpoint.

Mormonisn, because it’s a demonstrably false religion according to science and history, can only be held outside of reason and logic. Two important qualities for a president in my opinion.

You are, of course, free to vote based on whatever criteria you wish - race, religion, shoe size…

 

[rlg94086]

Which is code for “who is anti-abortion.” And an Islamist who extolled jihadism would be okay, too, as long as he passed this litmus. That would mean his values lined up with yours on the most important points. Right?

Nope. My values are not just being anti-abortion. It is a ridiculous assertion that shows how shallow your thought process is.

 

[Pork_Roll]

The thing is, I am not a huge enthusiastic supporter of Romney either - but not because of his Mormonism, but because of his fairly recent conversion to conservatism. I think the jury is still out on whether he is an authentic conservative.

I don’t know either. He’s very intelligent and has the qualities of a good president. But in light of his history and the fact that he’s Mormon, I’d much prefer Newt or Santorum.

There are Republicans who share your bigoted viewpoint.

We’re all bigots who are concerned with a religion that taught dark skinned people are cursed and drinking hot beverages is immoral among other weird teachings. Forgive me, it’s the inquisition in me.

 

[Darryl1958]

I never said so. But the voting for a Mormon does logically prompt questions about what are the outer limits of litmus-test politics.

For conservatives, I the litmus test would first and foremost be agreement on the preponderance of basic values, such as life, liberty, a nation whose laws are derived from God and not from government. There would also have to be the basic belief for Americans that their country is worth preserving and would not be better off if sharia were to be the law of the land, for the Judeo-Christian values upon which America in particular was founded are incompatible with sharia and other such systems.
Then, more specifically, for conservatives, would be a belief in smaller government, and investing as much power as possible in the individual, and the belief that we are the ones most capable and most responsible for making the decisions in our own lives.

In a pluralistic society, where freedom of religion means that people differ on many religious tenants, such as whether the Eucharist should be taken on the tongue or the hand, whether Jesus is the son of God, or even existed, whether Mohammed is a prophet of something entirely different—all these are questions of faith and theology. They inform religious values, to be sure, but in terms of natural law that Catholicism expects from all of humanity, different religions ought to come to the same conclusions on many things, as long as logic and reason and rational thought are guiding the ethics of us all.

Catholics such as Pelosi who have strayed from the American value of life follow neither natural law or Catholic teaching. They have failed the litmus test. Many Mormons and Muslims would therefore be preferable.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Catholics such as Pelosi who have strayed from the American value of life follow neither natural law or Catholic teaching. They have failed the litmus test.

Your litmus test, maybe even the hard right-wing litmus test. However, Pelosi shares American values with other liberals and with conservatives as well.

 

[rlg94086]

Your litmus test, maybe even the hard right-wing litmus test. However, Pelosi shares American values with other liberals and with conservatives as well.

Sure. But, according to Pork Roll’s reasoning, people who dislike the Catholic Church and think it’s an irrational religion should not vote for Pelosi, even if she shares those American values.

On the other hand, values voters, such of myself, won’t vote for her because she doesn’t share my values, despite the fact that she is Catholic.

Vote values, not religion.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Sure. But, according to Pork Roll’s reasoning, people who dislike the Catholic Church and think it’s an irrational religion should not vote for Pelosi, even if she shares those American values.

On the other hand, values voters, such of myself, won’t vote for her because she doesn’t share my values, despite the fact that she is Catholic.

Vote values, not religion.

Good points, but LOL! we are ALL values voters, our respective values not being all the same.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Your litmus test, maybe even the hard right-wing litmus test. However, Pelosi shares American values with other liberals and with conservatives as well.

Telling outrageous lies to demonize one’s political opponents is hardly a value.

 

[iamrefreshed]

As someone who believes in Transubstantiation, I have a hard times lobbing stones at the Mormons.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Telling outrageous lies to demonize one’s political opponents is hardly a value.

Demonization of the opposition is as much a part of American politics as Mom and apple pie. At one level or another, both the GOP and the Dems do it.

 

[rlg94086]

Good points, but LOL! we are ALL values voters, our respective values not being all the same.

Duh. I wasn’t claiming that values voters are only on one side. Thanks for stating the obvious.

Someone who says, “I won’t vote for candidate x because he or she is [black, Mormon, a woman, etc]” Is not voting based on values.

 

[rlg94086]

As someone who believes in Transubstantiation, I have a hard times lobbing stones at the Mormons.

Exactly. There is also the Virgin Birth, the Assumption, the Ressurrection, etc.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Exactly. There is also the Virgin Birth, the Assumption, the Ressurrection, etc.

The Immaculate Conception is the one that trips most non-Catholic up. That Mary was conceived without original sin as a pre-emptive act of grace by God usually sends their panties in knots.

 

[Darryl1958]

Telling outrageous lies to demonize one’s political opponents is hardly a value.

It is hardly a value of the hard right, or even theright, but it is the kind of value that Pelosi and many American liberals who value power over truth share with each other.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

It is hardly a value of the hard right, or even theright, but it is the kind of value that Pelosi and many American liberals who value power over truth share with each other.

Oh, sure. No Republican political candidate ever told lies about his or her opponents. “Tell it to the Marines.”

 

[rlg94086]

The Immaculate Conception is the one that trips most non-Catholic up. That Mary was conceived without original sin as a pre-emptive act of grace by God usually sends their panties in knots.

Yep. I didn’t mention it because it’s a non-issue for atheists and agnostics. The others are more directly ridiculed by the skeptics…who obviously shouldn’t vote for any Christian, regardless of their shared values.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Duh. I wasn’t claiming that values voters are only on one side. Thanks for stating the obvious.

Some conservatives like to appropriate that term to describe themselves, but you are correct.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

The Immaculate Conception is the one that trips most non-Catholic up. That Mary was conceived without original sin as a pre-emptive act of grace by God usually sends their panties in knots.

The Assumption, I think, is harder for them to accept. Even the Orthodox reject it in favor of the Dormition.