Republican Primaries

[estesbob]

Off hand it appears that those in thew past who chose Obama are now choosing Paul as the alternative. I havre noe doubt Obama supporters would love to see Paul as the republican Nominee…

My guess is that the Republican Ticket will be either Perry/Bachman or Romney/Bachman.

 

[jam070406]

I understand what you are saying but our bodies aren’t our own. They are a gift from God and I don’t see God in the Libertarian party. Other people have asked what your views are with regard to suicide and you have reiterated the Catholic position which I am glad to see. However you must realize that libertarian belief of who owns me would logically state that suicide is a personal decision and that the state can’t interfere at all. This is unCatholic. No if’s and’s or buts. Now before you say if we should incarcerate people who try suicide, bear in mind that no one is suggesting that or more importantly that I am saying that, but as a compassionate society, we should (with taxpayers money: ohh the horror of it!) help them to get back on their feet.

To say that what I am proposing is a slippery slope to more state encroachment, let me ask you this, does giving citizen’s the right to use lethal force (killing) in self-defence start a slippery slope to legalizing murder?

God gave us free will yet you wish to give more power to the government, over God, by taking it away???
I can’t subscribe to such philosophy and lack of trust in the Holy Spirit.

 

[estesbob]

You should really read Paul’s economic views and what he proposes before dismissing what he says as “simplistic”

Perhaps you could explain to us in detail what they are and why you think they would work. As far as I can tell his economic plan is based on eliminating the federal reserve and returning us to the gold standard. Both unworkable and both of which would cause massive turmoil in the United States and world financial systems.

 

[jam070406]

Off hand it appears that those in thew past who chose Obama are now choosing Paul as the alternative. I havre noe doubt Obama supporters would love to see Paul as the republican Nominee…

My guess is that the Republican Ticket will be either Perry/Bachman or Romney/Bachman.

How will they reverse the economic disaster? What have they proposed?

 

[jam070406]

Perhaps you could explain to us in detail what they are and why you think they would work. As far as I can tell his economic plan is based on eliminating the federal reserve and returning us to the gold standard. Both unworkable and both of which would cause massive turmoil in the United States and world financial systems.

Well, you got one point wrong and one half correct. And there is much more to it.
Do your own homework. So that you are at least presenting facts and not own your personal over simplification.

 

[estesbob]

How will they reverse the economic disaster? What have they proposed?

They both stand for lower business taxes and less business regulation , which Ron Paul does.also, as far as I can tell However neither Romney or Perry calls for destroying the American financial system as a solution to the problem.

Can you explain to us exactly how eliminating the federal reserve and putting this back on the gold standard is going to alleviate our economic problems?

Back in my younger days I worked in banking for several years as an auditor and I’ve always been somewhat amazed at how little people really know about the function of the Federal Reserve. Functional the Federal Reserve is to bring stability to the banking system and to our currency. They do this mainly through managing the Fed funds rate and temporary loans to banks.

Let me explain how this works. Little town bank finds at the end of the day they have a liquidity problem. Big town bank determines that they have a surplus of funds at the end of the day. So little town bank goes to the Fed and uses the overnight federal funds market to gain liquidity and big town bank deposits their excess funds with the Fed. The Fed sets a low rate for both ends of this transaction

So now the Fed goes away. When little town bank finds it has a liquidity problem they have to go to big town bank to borrow money at any rate big town bank wants to charge them. This of course puts little town bank at a competitive disadvantage, which allows big town bank to come into their market and undercut them on savings rates and loans rates. The end result being over period of time little town banks all disappear in favor of big town bank’s who now can charge whatever they want for loans. And of course, there is no longer any regulation of big town bank or little town bank so if they fold their depositors are on their own.

Of course, the situation is made worse for both of them by putting tus back on the gold standard-putting our currency at the whim of speculators worldwide who can drive up and down the price of gold at whim. In the past the government got around this problem by setting a arbitrary rate for the price of gold, and forbidding Americans from owning gold other than jewelry This, of course, would not work in today’s world. But then when offering simplistic solutions. It is best to not let reality intrude.

 

[estesbob]

Well, you got one point wrong and one half correct. And there is much more to it.
Do your own homework. So that you are at least presenting facts and not own your personal over simplification.

I have done my homework which is why I am not supporting Ron Paul. You evidently are supporting in the do not understand the implications of his economic policies. You also evidently do not understand he has a political philosophy that would allow egregious violations of people’s civil rights in the name of property rights.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

I understand what you are saying but our bodies aren’t our own. They are a gift from God and I don’t see God in the Libertarian party. Other people have asked what your views are with regard to suicide and you have reiterated the Catholic position which I am glad to see. However you must realize that libertarian belief of who owns me would logically state that suicide is a personal decision and that the state can’t interfere at all. This is unCatholic. No if’s and’s or buts. Now before you say if we should incarcerate people who try suicide, bear in mind that no one is suggesting that or more importantly that I am saying that, but as a compassionate society, we should (with taxpayers money: ohh the horror of it!) help them to get back on their feet.

To say that what I am proposing is a slippery slope to more state encroachment, let me ask you this, does giving citizen’s the right to use lethal force (killing) in self-defence start a slippery slope to legalizing murder?

And making suicide illegal does what, exactly? Every time the state has gotten involved in a moral problem, the problem has only gotten worse.

YOu didn’t answer the question that I asked though. If your life is not a gift from God to you personally, whom else does He bestow the gift of your life to?

And, for the record, I am not a member of the Libertarian Party. I am not a member of any party. The only party I want to be a part of is the Keg Party.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

God gave us free will yet you wish to give more power to the government, over God, by taking it away???
I can’t subscribe to such philosophy and lack of trust in the Holy Spirit.

Surrending the rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness, which are sacred gifts bestowed on each person by God Himself, and giving them over to the State is evil and a direct insult to God Almighty.

 

[JMJSHJ]

And making suicide illegal does what, exactly? Every time the state has gotten involved in a moral problem, the problem has only gotten worse.

YOu didn’t answer the question that I asked though. If your life is not a gift from God to you personally, whom else does He bestow the gift of your life to?

And, for the record, I am not a member of the Libertarian Party. I am not a member of any party. The only party I want to be a part of is the Keg Party.

By making it illegal it gets much needed help to those who need it. Regarding your question our life is a gift from God and if we abuse that right then those in power need to give help to help those get back up. As a state we can’t remain indifferent to the plight of the suffering and remember this, certain moral ills affect many people. To say that some serious immoral choices don’t affect others and thereby society is wrong.

 

[Seamus_L]

I believe Ron Paul like his son Rand, Barry Goldwater, and others disagree with the Civil Rights Act of 1965, only where it involves the private sector. I know many people including practicing Catholics who likewise agree with that position.

 

[jam070406]

I have done my homework which is why I am not supporting Ron Paul. You evidently are supporting in the do not understand the implications of his economic policies. You also evidently do not understand he has a political philosophy that would allow egregious violations of people’s civil rights in the name of property rights.

So, you’ve done your homework and willfully choose to misrepresent his views. Because what you say is not what says. And you do seem to imply that he is an imbecile.

 

[ishii]

God gave us free will yet you wish to give more power to the government, over God, by taking it away???
I can’t subscribe to such philosophy and lack of trust in the Holy Spirit.

The poster wrote: “However you must realize that libertarian belief of who owns me would logically state that suicide is a personal decision and that the state can’t interfere at all. This is unCatholic. No if’s and’s or buts.” I notice you didn’t address that point. Perhaps you could now? Would the libertarian run state allow for all sorts of Dr. Kevorkians to operate around nursing homes and cancer centers “helping people” who “own their own body” ? Or would the state interfere with this?

Also, Ron Paul when asked about gay marriage said that the state should not be involved in marriage at all and that marriage should only be the concern of churches. Do you agree?

Ishii

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

They both stand for lower business taxes and less business regulation , which Ron Paul does.also, as far as I can tell However neither Romney or Perry calls for destroying the American financial system as a solution to the problem.

Can you explain to us exactly how eliminating the federal reserve and putting this back on the gold standard is going to alleviate our economic problems?

Back in my younger days I worked in banking for several years as an auditor and I’ve always been somewhat amazed at how little people really know about the function of the Federal Reserve. Functional the Federal Reserve is to bring stability to the banking system and to our currency. They do this mainly through managing the Fed funds rate and temporary loans to banks.

Let me explain how this works. Little town bank finds at the end of the day they have a liquidity problem. Big town bank determines that they have a surplus of funds at the end of the day. So little town bank goes to the Fed and uses the overnight federal funds market to gain liquidity and big town bank deposits their excess funds with the Fed. The Fed sets a low rate for both ends of this transaction

So now the Fed goes away. When little town bank finds it has a liquidity problem they have to go to big town bank to borrow money at any rate big town bank wants to charge them. This of course puts little town bank at a competitive disadvantage, which allows big town bank to come into their market and undercut them on savings rates and loans rates. The end result being over period of time little town banks all disappear in favor of big town bank’s who now can charge whatever they want for loans. And of course, there is no longer any regulation of big town bank or little town bank so if they fold their depositors are on their own.

Of course, the situation is made worse for both of them by putting tus back on the gold standard-putting our currency at the whim of speculators worldwide who can drive up and down the price of gold at whim. In the past the government got around this problem by setting a arbitrary rate for the price of gold, and forbidding Americans from owning gold other than jewelry This, of course, would not work in today’s world. But then when offering simplistic solutions. It is best to not let reality intrude.

Apparently you have no clue about the background of fiat money, fractional reserve banking, and the Dollar as the world reserve currency. Banks and countries around the world are on the verge of collapse because of the federal reserve system. Fractional reserve lending has created an estimated (because the number is so large noone really knows what it is) $500 trillion in unfunded loan debt. What happens when this house of cards cannot support its own weight anymore?

 

[estesbob]

So, you’ve done your homework and willfully choose to misrepresent his views. Because what you say is not what says. And you do seem to imply that he is an imbecile.

Either you you understand his economic policies and you don’t. Again, I ask if you could explain to us and explain to us how eliminating the Federal Reserve and the gold standard is going to help alleviate the economic problems facing this country.

Nobody called him an imbecile and if I misrepresented his views now is your chance to straighten out. Please keep in mind that you claimed before that I misrepresented his views on allowing businesses to discriminate based on race, only to finally admit I had been correct all along.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

The poster wrote: “However you must realize that libertarian belief of who owns me would logically state that suicide is a personal decision and that the state can’t interfere at all. This is unCatholic. No if’s and’s or buts.” I notice you didn’t address that point. Perhaps you could now? Would the libertarian run state allow for all sorts of Dr. Kevorkians to operate around nursing homes and cancer centers “helping people” who “own their own body” ? Or would the state interfere with this?

Also, Ron Paul when asked about gay marriage said that the state should not be involved in marriage at all and that marriage should only be the concern of churches. Do you agree?

Ishii

Absolutely! State control of marriage began with Henry VIII, who sought to usurp control over everything religious. Is this the model you want to follow? You want the federal government digging its nose around the Church, bringing charges of discrimination because a priest refuses communion to a pro-abortion politician?

Read this, written by a Catholic.

lewrockwell.com/mcmaken/mcmaken135.html

 

[estesbob]

Apparently you have no clue about the background of fiat money, fractional reserve banking, and the Dollar as the world reserve currency. Banks and countries around the world are on the verge of collapse because of the federal reserve system. Fractional reserve lending has created an estimated (because the number is so large noone really knows what it is) $500 trillion in unfunded loan debt. What happens when this house of cards cannot support its own weight anymore?

So you ignored the substance of my post, told me I was ignorant about the currency system but still never answered the basic question as to how eliminating the gold standard and the Federal Reserve would eliminate our economic problems and how this could be done without throwing our nations and the world’s financial system into utter turmoil.

I find that Ron Paul supporters, always a testy lot, get even more testy when you confront them with the details of what Ron Paul actually proposes

 

[jam070406]

The poster wrote: “However you must realize that libertarian belief of who owns me would logically state that suicide is a personal decision and that the state can’t interfere at all. This is unCatholic. No if’s and’s or buts.” I notice you didn’t address that point. Perhaps you could now? Would the libertarian run state allow for all sorts of Dr. Kevorkians to operate around nursing homes and cancer centers “helping people” who “own their own body” ? Or would the state interfere with this?

Also, Ron Paul when asked about gay marriage said that the state should not be involved in marriage at all and that marriage should only be the concern of churches. Do you agree?

Ishii

You didn’t say assisted suicide. I believe it to be murder.

Marriage is a covenant with God administered by His Church.
Does the Church view “marriage” outside of the Church as valid?

 

[ishii]

Libertarianism is rooted in the concept that every person owns his/her own body and has the right to life based on that principle.
So, if I don’t have a right to my own body, who does?

However, if a person owns him/her self from the moment of conception, then noone has the right to commit violence to him or her, and the one who commits violence against another is a murderer, or a thief, whathaveyou.

I notice that its the last sentence there that keeps you from sounding 100% like the pro-abortion chanters “its my body, my choice.” I know that you believe, rightly, that no one has a right to abortion, but as for libertarianism, I think that there are many who would, based on their libertarian views, totally support the right to abortions based on “its my body” and “keep the government out of my life,” etc.

Ishii

 

[estesbob]

Absolutely! State control of marriage began with Henry VIII, who sought to usurp control over everything religious. Is that what you want? You want the federal government digging its nose around the Church, bringing charges of discrimination because a priest refuses communion to a pro-abortion politician?

So we have to destroy marriage to save it? How about we expect our elected leaders to support the traditional definition of marriage as being between one man and one woman? That is what our church calls for. Again Ron Paul offers a simplistic, unworkable solution-eliminate the legal recognition of marriage. I guess it would be a lawyer’s dream in that there would be an immediate run on the legal system as parents moved to legally adopt their children and draw up documents to give them the legal protections they now automatically receive when they become married.