Republican Primary

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I am not going to post the example I have here for privacy, but I have been on lists where official pro-life groups compare candidates and explain that the pro-choice Republican candidates are more moderate than their opponents.
So I deny your assertion that pro-life groups support pro-choice Republicans since you can’t give any examples.
Here is Concerned Women for America defending Meg Whitman.
cwfa.org/content.asp?id=19553
Defending her against name calling (the Brown campaign called her a witch) is not quite the same as supporting her campaign. That said, so-called pro-choice Republicans are more likely to be for such laws as parental notification than pro-choice Democrats. But Roe v Wade, which Democrat catholic senators fight to keep the law of the land, renders the abortion views of governors pretty much academic.
If the commitment is to reducing and not ending, it seems that Clinton did better than Bush so it is confusing why voting GOP becomes a moral issue. Why didn’t the Democrat catholics thwart him?
You had me going there for a few posts, but I can see you’re being disengenuous, LOve patience. Whatever causes the ebb and flow of the actual number of abortions year by year, it is not a function of who is president as long as Roe V Wade is the law of the land. As I explained earlier, Bush couldn’t do much except nominate solid justices in the hope that Roe V Wade will be overturned. To say that we should be happier because there were 2% fewer abortions under Clinton than Bush is to avoid the real issue, which is overturning Roe V Wade.
As you can see, I have been only one person replying to a great deal of people. I am unlikely to reply for a while since I can’t stay here all day and have other more important tasks. I will log on again next weekend and reply to your post.
I look forward to your reply.

Ishii
 
I was surprised he lost the support of those Republican voters describing themselves as independents.
Independent doesn’t equal centrist, especially in conservative states.
Exactly…I’m not sure why CMatt25 was surprised, unless he just doesn’t understand the voter demographics. I think Ron Paul took 2nd to Romney in 2008. There are a lot of libertarian-minded folk in Nevada.
 
I have already posted two evidences of these assertions. Anyways, I’m glad you now see my point, as people certainly DID disagree with me when I said that Popes have supported slavery and Popes have disagreed with each other.

Papal Bull: Dum Diversas, Romanus Pontifex by Pope Nicholas V. The Third Lateran Council.
You have yet to define “slavery” in the historical contexts that you are referencing, LovePatience.

Let me help.

“Slavery” refers to innocent people who were unjustly captured and reduced to “beasts of burden” due solely to their race. This was the most common form in the U.S. before the Thirteenth Amendment. As used here, “slavery” is the condition of involuntary servitude in which a human being is regarded as no more than the property of another, as being without basic human rights; in other words, as a thing rather than a person. Under this definition, slavery is intrinsically evil, since no person may legitimately be regarded or treated as a mere thing or object. This form of slavery can be called “chattel slavery.”

However, there are circumstances in which a person can justly be compelled to servitude against his will. Prisoners of war or criminals, for example, can justly lose their circumstantial freedom and be forced into servitude, within certain limits. Moreover, people can also “sell” their labor for a period of time (indentured servitude). These forms of servitude or slavery differ in kind from what we are calling “chattel slavery” or “racial slavery.” While prisoners of war and criminals can lose their freedom against their will, they do not become mere property of their captors, even when such imprisonment is just. They still possess basic, inalienable human rights and may not justly be subjected to certain forms of punishment - torture, for example. Similarly, indentured servants “sell” their labor, not their inalienable rights, and may not contract to provide services which are immoral. Moreover, they freely agree to exchange their labor for some benefit such as transportation, food, lodging, et cetera. Consequently, their servitude is not involuntary. . Even though repugnant to our modern sensitivity, servitude is not always unjust, such as penal servitude for convicted criminals or servitude freely chosen for personal financial reasons. These forms are called just-title servitude. The Thirteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which brought an end to racial slavery in the U.S., does allow for just-title servitude to punish criminals: “Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.” Even today we can see prisoners picking up litter along interstates and highways accompanied by armed guards. Also the 1949 Geneva Conventions allow for detaining power to use the labor of war prisoners under very limiting circumstances (Panzer, p. 3). However, such circumstances are very rare today. During biblical times, a man could voluntarily sell himself into slavery in order to pay off his debts (Deut. 15:12-18). But such slaves were to be freed on the seventh year or the Jubilee year (Lev. 25:54).

As to your mention of Gregory IX, I have already addressed the issue of “just-title” servitude: The Church tolerated just-title servitude for a time because it is not wrong in itself, though it can be seriously abused. The Popes did, however, consistently, and from the very beginning, oppose racial slavery which completely lacks any moral justification and is intrinsically wrong. “Racial slavery,” began in large-scale during the 15th century and was formally condemned by the Popes as early as 1435, fifty-seven years before Columbus discovered America.

As to your mention of Nicholas V, Fr. William Most has written that:

“It is claimed that in 1454 Pope Nicholas V gave permission to Alfonso V of Portugal to enslave Saracens, and other “enemies of Christ.”

First, we have yet to see any documentation for this claim.*** Even if it be so, it is not a doctrinal teaching, but a practical action.*** Such an action could indeed imply a teaching in the mind of the one who acted, but it did not express any teaching. Volume III, of Warren Carroll’s church history chronicles so many serious abuses of Popes in the middle ages. And we all know that Alexander VI had illegitimate children, and even officiated at marriage for them and even appointed an illegitimate son, Caesar, as a Cardinal! None of these abuses amounts to a teaching, but only to a very regrettable action.

Further we note that the alleged document allows slavery for Saracens. We need to remember also what was said above, that slavery is a bit less a penalty than life in a prison. And it may be earned by grave sin. Now the Saracens had been murdering all sorts of persons. Their religion was literally spread by the sword. Their sacred book, the Koran, says (cited from Bernard Palmer, Understanding the Islamic Explosion, Horizon House, 1980, pp. 36-37): “When ye encounter unbelievers, strike off their heads until ye have made a great slaughter among them, and bind them in bonds. . . .” They also believed that to fight in such a “Holy War” ensures immediate salvation, going to a sex paradise. Islamic people held Spain and Portugal for centuries, and got control of the area at first precisely by killing the “infidels”.

So since - if indeed the claim is true - Pope Nicholas V granted such an approval, it is evident he must have thought something substantially changed the case. For there was the much earlier prohibition of slavery by Pope John VIII in 873, in which he called it a grave sin. And Pope Paul III not long after 1454 (in 1537) ordered under automatic excommunication that slavery stop."
 
I have already posted two evidences of these assertions. Anyways, I’m glad you now see my point, as people certainly DID disagree with me when I said that Popes have supported slavery and Popes have disagreed with each other.

Papal Bull: Dum Diversas, Romanus Pontifex by Pope Nicholas V. The Third Lateran Council.

Here are more links: liberalslikechrist.org/Catholic/Church&slavery.html
Let’s also get down to the bottom-line of your protests on the issue of slavery and the bottom-line of the websites that you link to:

The essential anti-Catholic argument is this: “Catholicism must be false because it once endorsed slavery. The early Church approved slavery, as seen by St. Paul’s command for slaves to obey their masters (Col. 3:22-25; Eph. 6:5-8). Furthermore, the Catholic Church didn’t get around to repudiating slavery until the 1890s and prior to that actually supported it. That the Church no longer does is fine. But this only proves the maleability of Catholic doctrine. Furthermore, if Catholicism can flip-flop on such an important moral issue as slavery, why not on others of its supposedly unchangeable doctrines, such as the immorality of contraception or abortion?”

For many Catholics today the key question is: Does previous Catholic practice regarding slavery amount to a change of doctrine such as would allow Catholic teaching on other subjects - such as contraception and abortion - to change as well?

The answer: In no way. The Church’s teaching about the dignity and basic equality of all human beings has been clarified to such a degree that any earlier ambiguity about the tolerance of chattel slavery has been eradicated. The Church’s teaching regarding contraception and abortion can also be said to have developed, but not in the direction of approving those practices (i.e. while the Church has never allowed or tolerated contraception, the discovery of the female fertility cycle and birth control pill have led the Church to consider what her traditional teaching has to say about such things).

A development of Church teaching in one area that would now forbid what was once tolerated (chattel slavery) doesn’t imply or require a development in Church teaching in another area (sexual morality) that would allow what has always been forbidden (contraception and abortion). To argue that it does is a non sequitur.

It is true that some popes did not observe the moral obligation to oppose slavery - indeed, in 1488 Pope Innocent VIII accepted a gift of a hundred Moorish slaves from King Ferdinand of Aragon, giving some of them to his favorite cardinals. Of course, Innocent was anything but that when it came to a whole list of immoral actions.*** However, laxity must not be confused with doctrine***. Thus while Innocent fathered many children, he did not retract the official doctrine that the clergy should be celibate. In similar fashion, his acceptance of a gift of slaves should not be confused with official Church teachings. These were enunciated often and explicitly as they became pertinent.

During the 1430s, the Spanish colonized the Canary Islands and began to enslave the native population. This was not serfdom but true slavery of the sort that Christians and Moors had long practiced upon one another’s captives in Spain. When word of these actions reached Pope Eugene IV (1431 to 1447), he issued a bull, Sicut dudum. The pope did not mince words. Under threat of excommunication he gave everyone involved fifteen days from receipt of his bull "to restore to their earlier liberty all and each person of either sex who were once residents of said Canary Islands…These people are to be totally and perpetually free and are to be let go without the exaction or reception of any money. Pope Pius II (1458 to 1464) and Pope Sixtus IV (1471 to 1484) followed with additional bulls condemning enslavement of the Canary Islanders, which, obviously, had continued. What this episode displays is the weakness of papal authority at this time, not the indifference of the Church to the sin of slavery.
 
Let’s also get down to the bottom-line of your protests on the issue of slavery and the bottom-line of the websites that you link to:

The essential anti-Catholic argument is this]: “Catholicism must be false because it once endorsed slavery. The early Church approved slavery, as seen by St. Paul’s command for slaves to obey their masters (Col. 3:22-25; Eph. 6:5-8). Furthermore, the Catholic Church didn’t get around to repudiating slavery until the 1890s and prior to that actually supported it. That the Church no longer does is fine. But this only proves the maleability of Catholic doctrine. Furthermore, if Catholicism can flip-flop on such an important moral issue as slavery, why not on others of its supposedly unchangeable doctrines, such as the immorality of contraception or abortion?”

For many Catholics today the key question is: Does previous Catholic practice regarding slavery amount to a change of doctrine such as would allow Catholic teaching on other subjects - such as contraception and abortion - to change as well?

The answer: In no way. The Church’s teaching about the dignity and basic equality of all human beings has been clarified to such a degree that any earlier ambiguity about the tolerance of chattel slavery has been eradicated. The Church’s teaching regarding contraception and abortion can also be said to have developed, but not in the direction of approving those practices (i.e. while the Church has never allowed or tolerated contraception, the discovery of the female fertility cycle and birth control pill have led the Church to consider what her traditional teaching has to say about such things).

A development of Church teaching in one area that would now forbid what was once tolerated (chattel slavery) doesn’t imply or require a development in Church teaching in another area (sexual morality) that would allow what has always been forbidden (contraception and abortion). To argue that it does is a non sequitur.

It is true that some popes did not observe the moral obligation to oppose slavery - indeed, in 1488 Pope Innocent VIII accepted a gift of a hundred Moorish slaves from King Ferdinand of Aragon, giving some of them to his favorite cardinals. Of course, Innocent was anything but that when it came to a whole list of immoral actions. However, laxity must not be confused with doctrine. Thus while Innocent fathered many children, he did not retract the official doctrine that the clergy should be celibate. In similar fashion, his acceptance of a gift of slaves should not be confused with official Church teachings. These were enunciated often and explicitly as they became pertinent.

During the 1430s, the Spanish colonized the Canary Islands and began to enslave the native population. This was not serfdom but true slavery of the sort that Christians and Moors had long practiced upon one another’s captives in Spain. When word of these actions reached Pope Eugene IV (1431 to 1447), he issued a bull, Sicut dudum. The pope did not mince words. Under threat of excommunication he gave everyone involved fifteen days from receipt of his bull "to restore to their earlier liberty all and each person of either sex who were once residents of said Canary Islands…These people are to be totally and perpetually free and are to be let go without the exaction or reception of any money. Pope Pius II (1458 to 1464) and Pope Sixtus IV (1471 to 1484) followed with additional bulls condemning enslavement of the Canary Islanders, which, obviously, had continued. What this episode displays is the weakness of papal authority at this time, not the indifference of the Church to the sin of slavery.
 
I have already posted two evidences of these assertions. Anyways, I’m glad you now see my point, as people certainly DID disagree with me when I said that Popes have supported slavery and Popes have disagreed with each other.

Papal Bull: Dum Diversas, Romanus Pontifex by Pope Nicholas V. The Third Lateran Council.

Here are more links: liberalslikechrist.org/Catholic/Church&slavery.html
I also think it woud be pertinent to this topic of slavery, to bring up the issue of papal infallibility, since that is implicitly attacked whenever the slavery question is brought up.

The charism of Papal Infallibility (a dogman defined at the First Vatican Council) is excercised only when the Pope issues an ***ex cathedra statement ***on faith and morals or when he proposes a teaching united with all the bishops of the world.

Infallibility is not impeccability (being sinless) and it is not inspiration. Infallibility does not mean that every idea or judgment, opinion, or decision of the pope is inspired or always correct. It does not mean that the pope cannot personally make mistakes or commit sin, since history has already proved the opposite. Infallibility does not affect prudential judgements or even scientific or philosophical knowledge. It merely means that the Holy Spirit guards the Church and the pope in such a way that the pope would be prevented from teaching an error on faith and morals if it were attempted to be imposed on the universal church.

The pope’s personal opinions on specific military, economic, or political policies are not infallible.

There are two types of infallibility: extraordinary and ordinary.

Only when the pope speaks as universal pastor and solemnly defines a moral or doctrinal teaching does ***extraordinary infallibility ***occur. Two popes have done that in two thousand years: Pius IX in 1854 when he defined the dogma of the Immaculate Conception and Pius XII in 1950 when he defined the dogma of the Assumption of Mary.

Ordinary papal infallibility is exercised when popes officially teach to the universal Church what has been*** consistently*** and perennially taught by **previous popes **and by bishops around the world united with him. An example of ordinary infallibility was when John Paul II declared in 1994 (Ordinatio Sacerdotalis) that women cannot be ordained or receive the sacrament of Holy Orders. Ordinary papal infallibility is more frequent and the content or teaching is infallible but not a specific statement per se.

Fallible but official papal teaching does not demand an assent of faith.
 
You’re comparing apples with oranges. First, you are comparing the abortion rate (abortions per 1000 women) with the # of abortions total (without adjusting for # of women). Second, you aren’t using the same formula to calculate the change To get the percentage decline of 8.1 = 1- 1206200/1312990 = .081. For Clinton from 1993 to 2001, using the same calculation= 1 - 1291000/1495000 = .136.

So for Bush: 8.1%; Clinton 13.6%. And that’s not a fair comparison for Bush, since he was president from 2000-2008, not 2005, and between 2005 and 2008 the abortion rate increased not decreased.
*Abortion actually stopped declining by the time Clinton left office.

Dr. Randy O’Bannon, director of education at the National Right to Life Committee, says most of the abortion decline in the 1990s occurred during the first few years. That’s when the first President Bush was in office and shortly thereafter — before Clinton’s economic policies would have had an effect. O’Bannon said the rate of decline was higher in the Bush years and slowed during the Clinton years.

“In Clinton’s last year in office, the decline was not 1.7%, but just 0.1%,” O’Bannon explained, comparing the average decline in the 1990s with Clinton’s final year.

During the Bush years and the year after, abortions decreased by 113,000, or 7 percent. The number of abortions fell by only 46,500, or 3.5 percent, during Clinton’s second term in office, when his economic policies were in full effect. The abortion number even reversed itself one year during the Clinton presidency, from 1995-1996, and went up slightly.


In January 2009, the Alan Guttmacher Institute reported that the number of abortions nationwide have fallen to their lowest point in 30 years and have declined 25 percent since 1990 — with half of that time period coming under pro-life presidents. The number of abortions are now at their lowest point since 1.179 million in 1976, AGI said.

Meanwhile, research from a nonpartisan political watchdog group finds the claim false when compared with national and state abortion statistics.

The Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania says that claims that abortions have not decreased under President Bush are “not true.”

“Politicians from Hillary Clinton and John Kerry to Howard Dean have recently contended that abortions have increased since George W. Bush took office in 2001,” the researchers have written.

“This claim is false. It’s based on an opinion piece that used data from only 16 states. A study by the Alan Guttmacher Institute of 43 states found that abortions have actually decreased,” Annenberg indicates.

“The claim is repeated by supporters of abortion rights as evidence that Bush’s anti-abortion policies have backfired, or at least been ineffective,” it added. “But the claim is untrue. In fact, according to the respected Alan Guttmacher Institute, a 20-year decline in abortion rates continued after Bush took office.”
*

lifenews.com/2011/11/18/kathleen-kennedy-townsend-wrong-on-partisanship-abortion/
 
I have already posted two evidences of these assertions. Anyways, I’m glad you now see my point, as people certainly DID disagree with me when I said that Popes have supported slavery and Popes have disagreed with each other.

Papal Bull: Dum Diversas, Romanus Pontifex by Pope Nicholas V. The Third Lateran Council.

Here are more links: liberalslikechrist.org/Catholic/Church&slavery.html
There are lots of mentions to do with Catholic denouncement of slavery that is not included in that article. I would not consider ‘liberallikechrist.org’ and ‘womenpriests.org’ credible websites.

The website is not listing all the condemnations of slavery by Popes, here are some that are not included:

The enslavement of the Canary Islanders by the Spanish was condemned by Pope Eugene IV (1431-1437). He threatened the enslavers with excommunication.

Slavery in the Canary Islands was also condemned by Pope Pius II (1458-1464). Pope Sixtus IV (1471-1484) issued a proclamation reiterating the same position.

Pope Paul III (1534-1549) denounced colonial slavery in the New World. The dating was not accurate on the website you linked regarding this.

Pope John VIII ( to the princes of Sardinia) taught in 837 AD: “There is one thing about which we should give you a paternal admonition, and unless you emend, you incur a great sin, and for this reason, you will not increase gain, as you hope, but guilt. . . . many in your area, being taken captive by pagans, are sold and are bought by your people and held under the yoke of slavery. It is evident that it is religious duty and holy, as becomes Christians, that when your people have bought them from the Greeks themselves, for the love of Christ they set them free, and receive gain not from men, but from the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. Hence we exhort you and in fatherly love command that when you redeem some captives from them, for the salvation of your soul, you let them go free.”

The website you linked says: Pope Nicholas V gave permission to Alfonso V of Portugal to enslave Saracens, and other “enemies of Christ.”
First, we have yet to see any documentation for this claim. Even if it be so, it as not a doctrinal teaching, but a practical action. Such an action could indeed imply a teaching in the mind of the one who acted, but it did not express any teaching. So we need to recall what was said above about divine Brinkmanship. Volume III, of Warren Carroll’s church history chronicles so many serious abuses of Popes in the middle ages. And we all know that Alexander VI had illegitimate children, and even officiated at marriage for them and even appointed an illegitimate son, Caesar, as a Cardinal! None of these abuses amounts to a teaching, but only to a very regrettable action.
Further we note that the alleged document allows slavery for Saracens. We need to remember also what was said above, that slavery is a bit less a penalty than life in a prison. And it may be earned by grave sin. Now the Saracens had been murdering all sorts of persons. Their religion was literally spread by the sword. Their sacred book, the Koran, says (cited from Bernard Palmer, Understanding the Islamic Explosion, Horizon House, 1980, pp. 36-37): “When ye encounter unbelievers, strike off their heads until ye have made a great slaughter among them, and bind them in bonds. . . .” They also believed that to fight in such a “Holy War” ensures immediate salvation, going to a sex paradise. Islamic people held Spain and Portugal for centuries, and got control of the area at first precisely by killing the “infidels”.
So since—if indeed the claim is true—Pope Nicholas V granted such an approval, it is evident he must have thought something substantially changed the case. For there was the much earlier prohibition of slavery by Pope John VIII in 873, in which he called it a grave sin. And Pope Paul III not long after 1454 (in 1537) ordered under automatic excommunication that slavery stop.
ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/SLAVERY.HTM

The website accuses St. Thomas Aquinas of defending slavery.
Saint Thomas Aquinas deduced that slavery was a sin, and a series of popes upheld his position, beginning in 1435 and culminating in three major pronouncements against slavery by Pope Paul III in 1537.
It is significant that in Aquinas’s day, slavery was a thing of the past or of distant lands. Consequently, he gave very little attention to the subject per se, paying more attention to serfdom, which he held to be repugnant.
However, in his overall analysis of morality in human relationships, Aquinas placed slavery in opposition to natural law, deducing that all “rational creatures” are entitled to justice. Hence he found no natural basis for the enslavement of one person rather than another, “thus removing any possible justification for slavery based on race or religion.” Right reason, not coercion, is the moral basis of authority, for “one man is not by nature ordained to another as an end.”
Here Aquinas distinguished two forms of “subjection” or authority, just and unjust. The former exists when leaders work for the advantage and benefit of their subjects. The unjust form of subjection “is that of slavery, in which the ruler manages the subject for his own [the ruler’s] advantage.” Based on the immense authority vested in Aquinas by the Church, the official view came to be that slavery is sinful.
Read more, I suggest you read the seven pages of the truth about the Catholic Church and slavery, because the website you linked is not giving the full picture:

christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/julyweb-only/7-14-53.0.html
 
I have already posted two evidences of these assertions. Anyways, I’m glad you now see my point, as people certainly DID disagree with me when I said that Popes have supported slavery and Popes have disagreed with each other.

Papal Bull: Dum Diversas, Romanus Pontifex by Pope Nicholas V. The Third Lateran Council.

Here are more links: liberalslikechrist.org/Catholic/Church&slavery.html
Research every claim made on that website and you’ll see as different picture.

You also have to take into context that ‘slavery’’ was different from society to society:
The term “slavery” is problematic in itself, as the forms of slavery differ enormously from society to society. The most common definition of a slave is one who is the legal property of another or others and who is bound to absolute obedience. Large-scale slave systems, those in which slavery was essential to the social or economic structure, can be found in at least fifty-five societies throughout the Old World. The slave societies of ancient Greece and Rome, Visigothic Spain, Iceland, Russia, Korea, China, and Iraq, for example, all relied upon the labour of urban and rural slaves. Slaves could be given as part of a dowry, or acquired through birth, trade, warfare, capture, or voluntary servitude. Certain slave societies, such as that of medieval Ireland, for example, used slaves as forms of payment. The cumal, or seven years of labour by a female slave, was of equivalent value to three ounces of silver, or between eighteen and sixty-four cows. What is especially interesting to note is that in 75 per cent of these societies, masters and slaves were of the same ethnicity, with 21 per cent of different ethnicities and 4 per cent an ethnic mix of slaves. This suggests that slavery was not necessarily ethnic or racial in origin. Before 1500, moreover, Africans actually made up a minority of the Old World’s slave population, which also suggests that the institution of slavery is not historically linked to those of African descent. The myriad and complex forces which combined in the late fifteenth century to produce the forced migration of millions of Africans to the European colonies of the New World, and the association between slavery and those born in Africa were not, therefore, predetermined or inevitable, although they did have their predecessors.
ucalgary.ca/applied_history/tutor/migrations/four1.html
As to Paul’s practice, we should remember that the whole economy of the Mediterranean was built on slavery. Not even the all-powerful Roman Emperor could have dislodged it if he had wanted to do so. The Church was still struggling to survive. Surely it could not challenge slavery then. Further, the living conditions of slaves, except for those in the mines and agricultural capitalism as we said, were not bad. Many were house slaves. Their comfort was such that even when freed, it was not unusual for a slave to make a deal with the former master: I would like to keep on working for you, if you give me security. The reason was that in that economy, a free laborer had a hard time competing with real slave labor. He had no security at all. So the kind of deal we pictured was not unusual, not unreasonable. Further, St. Paul had strong in his mind the contrast between time and eternity: the things of this life are worth little compared to eternity. So in 1 Cor 7:18-24 he is developing the theme: No one needs to change the outward conditions of life when he becomes Christian. The second case he gives is this: “Were you called [into the Church] as a slave? Let it not concern you. But even if you are able to get free, rather use it.” Use what? In context it seems to mean use the chance for humility by staying as a slave.
ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/SLAVERY.HTM

Indentured servitude in the Bible, not slavery:

bibleapologetics.wordpress.com/slavery-in-the-bible-25/

bibleapologetics.wordpress.com/slavery-in-the-bible-15/

Freeing of slaves gos back to 1st century and denouncement of slavery goes back to the 3rd century by Christian leaders:

bibleapologetics.wordpress.com/2007/07/12/article-christians-and-slavery-13/
 
NOTICE

This thread is wandering, please return to the topic of the Republican Primary
 
nationalreview.com/articles/290209/santorum-s-last-stand-katrina-trinko

on better chances for Santorum , whose name means - to sanctifyl the storm/strong

good news for many who want a candidate who has that type of moral strenght …his virtue of fortitude has also been sited …and how Gingrch’s personal issues as well as style has been too unpalatable for many ; may be he would be the one to show the traits of being a good father and that he cares more about the values and the nation by choosing to support Santorum and be a good policy advisor , in areas he knows he can help , along with Ron Paul

There could have been a hidden factor of compassion , from many voters , for Santorum and his family too , for not wanting him to take on the grueling role of Presidency .

Yet, may be he is urged on by his belief that he is the right man , all else considered …

and possibly willing to rethink and adjust some ploicy issues , to be able to do the best job .

One reason Romeny’s comments seem to have drawn lot of negative attention could be that many could have sensed that in mormonsim , any one who is not eligible for temple entry through tithing and other requirements is 'poor ’ , who will be 'dammed ’ from furthur progression …this unlike in Christianity ,where we are taught such and such are the ways of The Kingdom and surrender all, to His mercy , trusting God is God and would impart His mercy ,as He deems pleasing …

thus , our efforts out of gratitude , to our God and Father , with whom we hope to spend all eternity … and not as means to become Gods unto oursleves , which seems as dangerous as idolatry AFIK …

ewtn.com/library/answers/insidtem.htm - this by Isiah Bennett , on the rather empty rituals , inside the mormon temples …no real worship …may be one reson the candidate too at times , seem to come across as empty with false promises …

This , in contrast to every Holy Mass , where we worship our Thrice Holy , Thrice Fatherly Triune God, in the company of all angels and saints and hope to spend all eternity , in His presence …to sing endless praises that would be ever more joyful … 🙂

May God grant us wisdom, to choose the one who is most pleasing to Him and who could serve the nation the best …
 
Indeed Ishii. If enough independents and moderates agree with the message the President is getting out there and will I imagine more so as the campaign unfolds into the year. That the Republicans have obstructed him, be it with the 60 vote threshhold in the Senate, giving the minority such power in the Senate regardless of the party in the minority. Or with him being fought against at nearly every turn in the House since the 2010 election. And that we don’t want to go back with Romney or whomever the Republicans nominate in their primary process, likely to be Romney, to policies that got us into the mess in the first place. And there is a trend things are beginning to get better and the American people realize you can not blame Obama for everything but then not give him any credit. President Obama then has a chance at reelection and defeating whomever comes out of the Republican primary as the nominee.
Who was obstucting Obama in his first two years in office?
 
Nevada caucuses suffer low turnout, surly confrontations - Fox News

(I heard that this might be have to do with the fact that so many people figured Romney would be the nominee it was not worth going to caucus).

Obama beats Romney by 51% to 45% in latest head-to-head poll (4% margin of error)- Washington Post
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Obama has a 52% to 37% lead on understanding American families' economic problems - [Graphic](http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/voters-split-on-second-term-for-obama-but-he-has-edge-on-rivals/2012/02/05/gIQAwaBbsQ_graphic.html)
Romney would have still won Nevada even if not a single Mormon had voted for him - American Spectator | Jennifer Rubin has more on Romney’s BIG Nevada win

“Until Mr. Romney wins in the Midwest, or at least until he is a clear favorite in the polls there outside of his native Michigan, it is hard to consider his nomination as a forgone conclusion” - Nate Silver

In this Fox video Giuliani urges the top candidates to stop attacking each other as if they were Democrats. He also urges Santorum or Gingrich to stand aside so there is one conservative candidate.

More Romney:
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Why Mitt Romney Needs To Talk Openly About His Mormon Faith - Randall Balmer for [TNR](http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/100375/romney-mormon-election-religion)

Obama campaign say their eyes were never diverted by Herman Cain. Their focus has been on Romney and his gaffes - [New York Times
](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/06/u...on-lookout-for-romney-flubs.html?ref=politics)
“For such an experienced politician with a reputation for caution, he can be unusually clumsy and cloth-eared over the concerns of the middle class which he says is his focus. The White House will exploit that to the full.” - Mark Mardell, BBC

Gingrich counting on ‘Reagan States’; a Southern Strategy to build momentum for Super Tuesday - WSJ
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"Mr. Gingrich vowed to continue his campaign, drawing a clearer contrast between what he described as his own “bold” vision for the country and the “timid” path of Mr. Romney." - [New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/06/us/politics/gingrich-after-nevada-loss-says-he-will-keep-fighting.html?_r=1&ref=politics)

Gingrich's focus: TEXAS - [Toby Harnden](http://harndenblog.dailymail.co.uk/2012/02/newt-gingrichs-bizarree-new-campaign-strategy.html)
Santorum in First Place in Minnesota, Second in Colorado - Weekly Standard

“A Santorum victory in Minnesota alongside a Romney win in Colorado isn’t likely to derail the frontrunner. But it will, along with the results in Missouri’s non-binding primary where Gingrich isn’t even on the ballot, bolster the idea that the former Pennsylvania senator is the only real alternative to the Romney juggernaut.” - Commentary
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Santorum optimistic about next set of primary states - [WSJ](http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2012/02/05/santorum-optimistic-despite-recent-losses/)
Romney campaign starts attacking Santorum - Weekly Standard

Santorum called Romney a “uni-dimensional candidate” with his emphasis on his background as a former CEO in the private sector - USA Today

“In my estimation, Santorum is the last consistent conservative standing, and the only one both promoting the conservative agenda and campaigning as a conservative in the race. That doesn’t make Santorum perfect; he lacks the executive experience I’d like to see, and some of his positions in the past and present give me pause. However, compared to the heterodoxies of his competitors in the GOP race, Santorum has a superior record on promoting conservative policies and values.” - Ed Morrissey at HotAir

VIDEO: Santorum tells CNN that, unlike Gingrich, he will phone congratulations to him
 
Paul claims credit for ‘intellectual revolution’ taking place inside GOP

“It has not been translated to absolute political change but, believe me, the intellectual revolution is going on and that has to come first before you see the political changes, and that’s where I’m very optimistic,” he said." - USA Today

Immigration could cost GOP the Latino vote: “Many Latinos are culturally conservative, patriotic and remarkably entrepreneurial. On paper, this sounds like fertile territory for the GOP. But once Latinos have heard the GOP’s strong anti-immigrant rhetoric, they may well stop listening to anything else Republicans have to say.” - Politico

(I think they mean 'GOP’s strong anti illegal immigration…)

GOP teams question jobs statistics

“Romney’s economic advisor, Glenn Hubbard, and former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, in separate TV appearances, both spoke about the departure of many people from the labor force. If so many people hadn’t quit looking for work, Gingrich said on ABC’s “This Week” that the unemployment rate would now be 12% or 13%.” - LA Times

Obama seems to be concentrating on meeting the demands of rich liberals he spends so much time with - Michael Barone at RCP
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The GOP should hammer Obama for breaking a “firm pledge” that no American making less than $250,000 per year would see “any form of tax increase” - [Daily Caller](http://dailycaller.com/2012/02/05/gop-candidates-should-hammer-obama-for-breaking-his-tax-pledge/#ixzz1lbInglvn)
Deficit is second most important issue for voters and it divides the Left - Thomas Edsall for the New York Times
 
Who was obstucting Obama in his first two years in office?
The Republican minority in the Senate blocked legislation through their veto power, which they used to thwart Democratic legislation at every turn. If the Democrats needed a supermajority in the Senate to pass legislation without Republican votes, and they had only a simple majority.
 
The Republican minority in the Senate blocked legislation through their veto power, which they used to thwart Democratic legislation at every turn. If the Democrats needed a supermajority in the Senate to pass legislation without Republican votes, and they had only a simple majority.
Actually up until the death of Ted Keenedy they had a supermajority and could do anything they wanted. They chose to use this power to ram Obamacare through ad incur massive levels of new debt. Sorry , but anyone who knows history knows the obstruction charge simply does not y
 
The Real Unemployment Rate is 19%
Thanks to how the data is fudged in Washington, the unemployment rate is touted to now be down to 8.3%. Officially only 12.7 million are now unemployed. As I have predicted, Obama will do anything possible to get the unemployment rate to 8.0% or below by the time of the General Election on Tuesday 06 November.
President Obama has been celebrating the 243,000 jobs created in January. However, no mention has been made by Obama or the White House that 1.2 million people gave up looking for work in January. These 1.2 million people were removed from the group of persons who are reported to be unemployed, dropping the pretend unemployment number to 8.3%.
There has also been no mention that while Obama is bragging that he added 3.7 million new jobs, the reality of the situation is that 4.4 million jobs have simply disappeared from the United States of America since Obama became President.
A total of 4.7 million people have stopped looking for work since the Inauguration of President Obama. Added to the 12.7 million, the total of unemployed is 17.4 million without work or about 11%.
When one adds in the 10.5 million who are working part time but would like to be working full time, we have 28 million who are unemployed or underemployed. This is an unemployment rate of 17%.
If one then adds the 2% of our population who are in jails or prisons, the actual unemployment rate is at or about 19%.
It is difficult to understand how Obama can be pushing for higher taxes on those in the upper 2% of income for our population since this income group creates most of the new jobs. However, for Obama it seems that relevance is totally influenced by how he will be elected in November.
lubbockonline.com/interact/blog-post/may/2012-02-04/real-unemployment-rate-more-19
 
Despite all Bush did, abortion rates decreased faster during Clinton’s time in office than Bush’s; they even started increasing during Bush’s second term. Why is this? Are these battles symbolic or substantial?
Maybe the economy has more to do with it than who’s in office? Just saying.
 
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