Republican Primary

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So how do you suppose Romney fixes the safety net by not raising taxes and cutting programs?

Then he went on to say he cares about the middle class. And I’m thinking exactly what middle class? The rich are getting richer. The poor are getting poorer. And the middle class dream is diappearing for many.

The whole Romney statement just seemed somewhat bizzare to me.
As to your first question, I don’t know what he will do. One thing he could do is redirect middle class welfare to the truly needy. Since neither party does that, it would be asking a lot.

Actually, I’m not sure the “disappearance” of the middle class is a bad thing. I recently read a WSJ article in which it showed the percentage of people in the “poor” class has remained steady for about 30 years, the “wealthy” class has actually increased while the “middle” class has shrunk. This is at least suggestive that the middle class is “shrinking” by becoming part of the “wealthy” class, not the “poor” class.

Now, I’ll add that the 'wealthy" were defined by income, and at fairly low levels. Inflation-adjusted income for the middle class has increased substantially in the last ten years. As i recall, they defined “wealthy” as people earning $150,000/year or more. A person making $150,000 is doing pretty well, but they’re certainly not within Obama’s (present) definition of “wealthy”.
 
The Democratic does not care about the very poor at an ideal level, but it certainly cares about them more than the Republicans. There are programs in government to help the very poor such as child protective services.

From a gov website:

Republicans are striving to cut taxes. Well, how will we pay for these programs to protect poor children? Perry Repeatedly Cut Child Abuse Prevention Funding As Texas Battled Rising Levels Of Abuse thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/10/19/347115/perry-child-abuse-funds/
Citing an opinion piece about what Rick Perry does with a Texas program does not tell us very much. In my state, a Repub legislature and Repub governor added funds to child protective services, and really has improved its effectiveness by some structural changes as well.
 
Did you know that is a “requirement” of nearly all Christian religions?
Yeah, and some, I believe Mormonism is one, you have to report your income to be sure you’re giving 10%.

And people complain when our Pastors ask for a little more, at the end of Mass.

Jim
 
Yeah, and some, I believe Mormonism is one, you have to report your income to be sure you’re giving 10%.

And people complain when our Pastors ask for a little more, at the end of Mass.

Jim
I don’t even think they get a tax deduction for it, either, because the Mormon church deliberately avoided tax exempt status so it could do or say what it wants without fearing the government taking away its tax status. Now, it’s possible that some of their subsidiary organizations might have exempt status. They do have charitable organziations too.
 
Ha ha… That sounds about right. The GOP laments paying higher taxes than the less wealthy as a rule–of course so do I. The richest 0.1% pay less taxes than the upper middle classes, though I can’t complain as I hardly pay any taxes. But I really don’t know how much wealth isn’t being taxed in that 99.9 percentile of income earners.

Newt wants to cut capital gains taxes to zero further benefiting the rich. He even went so far as to say it would benefit us all because the wealth would trickle down quoting Alan Greenspan–I wish I was making that up. A catholic tax structure would favor family run and small businesses, and raise taxes on the biggest businesses/corporations. Basically the incentives would favour the weak and small.

There is nothing in catholic social teaching that supports the welfare state as far as I know.
Too bad the IRS doesn’t agree with you.
 
Anyone hear the news this morning about Donald Trump supporting Newt?
 
LovePatience, since you’re addressing the Republican desire for tax cuts, maybe you can help me with this. Here’s what I also didn’t get about Republican Romney’s statement.

He talked about not caring about the very poor because there is a safety net in place for them. But if need be, he would fix it. Yet not only do Republicans want to cut taxes and not raise taxes on the wealthiest who have benefited the most over the past decade, they want to cut programs.

Now I know they’ve come up with this slogan of “class warfare” they now use as a defense not to bring about at least some greater degree of fairness in the tax rates and not raise tax rates on those who can most afford it in these times of budgetary deficits.

So how do you suppose Romney fixes the safety net by not raising taxes and cutting programs?

Then he went on to say he cares about the middle class. And I’m thinking exactly what middle class? The rich are getting richer. The poor are getting poorer. And the middle class dream is diappearing for many.

The whole Romney statement just seemed somewhat bizzare to me.
It probably seems bizzare to those who want to read into what he said something that he did not mean. Granted, the statement was inartful, but in no way do I think he intended to slight the plight of the poor.
 
What happened to tax revenue when the Bush tax cuts were implemented? They went down. What happened to tax revenue when Clinton increased tax rates? They went up. While it is possible to raise tax rates and have tax revenues fall, it doesn’t have to happen that way. Sometimes when you raise tax rates tax revenue actually increases.
The effect of a tax increase isn’t simple at all. People respond to changes in their taxes; it has been proven over and over again that increasing taxes doesn’t necessarily increase revenue, in fact, it’s usually just the opposite.

To quote from a recent Human Events article

humanevents.com/article.php?id=47701

“During the last year a Republican budget controlled Congress (fiscal year 2007), the deficit stood at a minuscule $161 billion dollars. $161 billion! That’s at least five years into the tenure of those evil tax cuts. Moreover, as HUMAN EVENTS has previously reported, federal tax receipts actually went up while the tax cuts were accelerating. In other words, the United States Treasury received more money not less because of the Bush tax cuts that Democrats allege ruined America’s economy.

$1.88 trillion in 2004
$ 2.15 trillion in 2005
$ 2.4 trillion in 2006
$ 2.6 trillion in 2007

The last figure was actually the highest dollar amount brought into the Treasury Department… ever.”

I’m sure you think the math is simple.

(Tax rate) * (size of economy) = (revenue)

The problem is we now have over 200 years of history compiled for close to 200 countries, and increasing the tax rate changes the size of the economy.

Consider that in California, they tripled the tax on new car license plates. This should triple revenue, correct? The problem is that people started buying one-year-used cars or went out of state to buy cars instead. Further, the new car lots closed, and they too were paying taxes.

The result is not a matter of debate – it is a matter of fact. The increase in tax caused a decrease in revenue by more than half. It got worse than that when the unemployed car salesmen signed up for unemployment.

We have hundreds of countries, for hundreds of years, giving us tens of thousands of examples that it is not as simple as changing the tax rate. The complexities end up causing the revenues via tax rate graph to be a CURVE.

For what it is worth, the highest revenue seems to be at a 14% rate of taxation. That would mean we need to lower tax rates.

Think of it this way – if a dollar changes hands 5 times more on a 33% decrease in taxes, you will end up with (5) * (2/3rds of old tax rate) = 3 1/3rd times the revenue.

Russia did this, changing to an 18% curve form a 72% maximum tax rate. Revenue tripled.

The math is not simple. Most folks’ thinking is the problem (sorry not trying to take a cheap shot, but enough people who don’t think of the complexities have helped get us into this situation – look at 1983 tax rate reduction leading to an increase in revenue… it’s too bad congress overspent it).

We have a spending problem in this country. That’s all there is.

Much of the answer in raising tax revenue lies in introducing increases incrementally, so that they can be easily integrated into the economy without too much suffering. This stagnation is what is so noxious.

So, what is the meaning of TEMPORARY Bush tax cuts – 2001-3?

Such a tax cut was to grow the economy and create jobs.

How are we doing after 11 years?
 
LovePatience, since you’re addressing the Republican desire for tax cuts, maybe you can help me with this. Here’s what I also didn’t get about Republican Romney’s statement.

He talked about not caring about the very poor because there is a safety net in place for them. But if need be, he would fix it. Yet not only do Republicans want to cut taxes and not raise taxes on the wealthiest who have benefited the most over the past decade, they want to cut programs.
Did you know that the bible is against poor people too. As a matter of fact it says not to worry about them either - they aren’t going away…

<< Matthew 26:11 >>

For the poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me.
 
Yeah, and some, I believe Mormonism is one, you have to report your income to be sure you’re giving 10%.

And people complain when our Pastors ask for a little more, at the end of Mass.

Jim
Well, Mormonism is a deeply flawed religion. Their understanding of even the fundamentals of God is extremely distorted.
 
Hey, Carlan. Where have you been? We all miss your finger wagging.

Btw…I agree with you that ringil’s mudslinging posts about Romney are nasty and hateful. With any luck, he and the media folks he’s quoting will cease and desist.
Republican politics are so depressing!, I just check in once in a while to see if any of you have yet seen the light.
Robert i just must say though ,what a pitiful pair you are going to have to end up choosing ! and I can see that you have no one to blame but Ringil ,Matt and the like, and of course the the big bad socialist Media.
They are always a good target to go after when you can’t bring yourselves to place criticism where it actually belongs.:p:)Peace, Carlan
 
Did you know that the bible is against poor people too. As a matter of fact it says not to worry about them either - they aren’t going away…

<< Matthew 26:11 >>

For the poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me.
Hey, it’s the Right’s favorite Bible quote!! 👍

I really have to thank CAF for tuning me in to what the Right really think but don’t always say in the public arena. 🙂
 
Hey, it’s the Right’s favorite Bible quote!! 👍

I really have to thank CAF for tuning me in to what the Right really think but don’t always say in the public arena. 🙂
I could not care less what the so called “Right” thinks. i do care what the Church teaches-which is why i could never vote for the current occupant of the White House.
 
Republican politics are so depressing!, I just check in once in a while to see if any of you have yet seen the light.
Robert i just must say though ,what a pitiful pair you are going to have to end up choosing ! and I can see that you have no one to blame but Ringil ,Matt and the like, and of course the the big bad socialist Media.
They are always a good target to go after when you can’t bring yourselves to place criticism where it actually belongs.:p:)Peace, Carlan
See what light? That supporting taking other peoples money to support the pooroffsets support of unrestricted taqxpayer funded abortion on demand?. The Democrat party stands in direct oppostion to nearly all the core moral teachings of the Catholic Church. They have so embraced the culture of death tha even vatican officials have commented on it. So please spare us the “see the light” nonsense.
 
I could not care less what the so called “Right” thinks. i do care what the Church teaches-which is why i could never vote for the current occupant of the White House.
But all of your political commentary is of the Right. Certainly you oppose Abortion and Gay Marriage but you also advocate nearly every socio/political/legislative proposition of the Right.

I will own that I lean to the Left on the role of Government relative to the state; certainly you can own that you lean to the Right. 🤷

It’s not only Abortion and the other non-negotiables causing you to be against the President, you seem to have adopted the entire panoply of the Right.
 
But all of your political commentary is of the Right. Certainly you oppose Abortion and Gay Marriage but you also advocate nearly every socio/political/legislative proposition of the Right.

I will own that I lean to the Left on the role of Government relative to the state; certainly you can own that you lean to the Right. 🤷

It’s not only Abortion and the other non-negotiables causing you to be against the President, you seem to have adopted the entire panoply of the Right.
I support the teachings of the Church. The fact many consider that makes me right wing is a sad commentary on how far the Democrst party has distanced itself from our Church
 
Maybe by not raising taxes the private sector will be able to help the economy recover - putting people back to work and paying more taxes - more revenue for the safety net! What will not work, and won’t help is continued economic stagnation and high unemployment rates that would result from a tax increase. Cutting programs is okay if those programs aren’t working and need to be streamlined. We don’t need programs for the sake of having programs to make us feel like we’re doing something to help people. What’s needed is a robust economy to put people back to work.

Ishii
We’ve been down that road before. We cut taxes on the supposedly wealthy job creators. They were called the Bush tax cuts. And we saw the result. Jobs weren’t created. Why anyone would want to go back to the failed Republican policies of the Bush Administration that got us into the mess in the first place is beyond me. 🤷 It’s only led to the rich gettting richer, the poor getting poorer, and the middle class getting the shaft. Under such a Republican economic policy of tax cuts for the wealthy, something trickled down on the latter two but it sure wasn’t jobs. Thankfully we’ve finally seen some signs of improvement but the mess created was so bad, we still have a long ways to go. Now maybe if the wealthy job creators were willing to invest more in America and in American workers and perhaps take just a little less for themselves :eek: that would help.
 
I support the teachings of the Church. The fact many consider that makes me right wing is a sad commentary on how far the Democrst party has distanced itself from our Church
The Church, despite what you will surely state, provides no opinion or preference of the Rightist economic model of US politics.
 
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