Republican senator announces support for gay marriage

[JimG]

It seems that many people, perhaps many of the young, have a moral blind spot. They may reject violence, unjust war, oppression of peoples, and favor helping the poor. But they believe either that dysfunctional sexual practices have no effect on social structures and family stability, and civilizational stability; or they believe that there are no such things as dysfunctional sexual practices, because any action involving sex is okay, disordered or not. In that, they are egregiously wrong. It is family, children, and civilization which will suffer from such mistaken beliefs.

 

[HansTrappist]

Homosexual acts are an intrinsic evil. “Gay marriage” involves homosexual acts by definition, therefore “gay marriage” is an intrinsic evil.

Here is the infallible teaching of the Catholic Church on the matter (emphasis mine):

Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,140 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."141 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible.** This inclination, which is objectively disordered**, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

Human Nature was created a certain way. Going all the way back to Genesis we read that God decided that it was not good that Adam should be alone. So what did he do? He created Eve. He did not create another man. He then told the two creatures to be fruitful and multiply. So right from the beginning we see the two-fold purpose of Human Sexuality: unitive and procreative. Homosexual acts (aka Homosexual “marriage”) violates the very purpose of marriage.

After the Fall, Death, Decay and Disorder were introduced. This is the present state of affairs. Human Nature is damaged. Think of it this way: some people are blessed with great bodies. Others are not. Some people are blessed with great intellect. Others are not. Some people are blessed with a healthy mind. Others suffer from a variety of mental illnesses. Why? The answer is that the Fall has damaged our Human Nature. But even though we are damaged, there is an Order towards which Human Nature aspires. It is the Order that existed prior to the Fall. It is the Order of the Glorified Body: perfect Beauty, perfect Intellect, a healthy Mind, a perfect Harmony with Nature. Now, we all each have our own particular talent, our own particular sharing in the Beauty that existed prior to the Fall. But we are also all damaged and all have our own unique cross to bear.

 

[Frank_Drebin]

It seems that many people, perhaps many of the young, have a moral blind spot. They may reject violence, unjust war, oppression of peoples, and favor helping the poor. But they believe either that dysfunctional sexual practices have no effect on social structures and family stability, and civilizational stability; or they believe that there are no such things as dysfunctional sexual practices, because any action involving sex is okay, disordered or not. In that, they are egregiously wrong. It is family, children, and civilization which will suffer from such mistaken beliefs.

They also, as Margy did, blame an increased rate of suicide on society not accpeting their behavior. Please. Society is more tolerant than EVER before. Perhaps it is that very abberant behavior that is the root of so much happiness.

As a Catholic, I can relate to their unrest. When I turn away from God, I am left unhappy and unfulfilled. When I serve Him, no matter how difficult, I am sustained in happiness.

And to compare insufficient medical care, the Iraq war (not all wra, just that one), and other nonsense to the gravity of chaging the fundamental nature of man and woman in marriage, ona Catholic website, is shockingly naive.

 

[Crescentinus]

What I don’t get is why rossum supports same-sex “marriage”.
Don’t tell me that he (I’m assuming he) is into yaoi and yuri?

 

[CMatt25]

I’m late to the thread but I did find this good news. Clearly his son “coming out” to his parents was the spark. But the love and compassion Senator Portman said he takes from the Bible and the fact that we are all created by God seems to have influenced his change of heart as well. He seems to have come to an understanding that gay civil marriage is actually in line with his conservative values. When he says.he concluded marriage as an institution would be strengthened by allowing gay couples lovingly committed to one another in monogamous relationships to wed. And he merely wants his son to have the civil legal opportunity to have the same chance at an enduring relationship that his parents have had for over 26 yrs. I say God bless him for this. And for having the courage to change his position as a member of the Republican Party. Though the article points out other Republicans have similarly embraced same-sex marriage. With more than 80 prominent Republicans planning to file a “friend of the court” brief asking the U.S. Supreme Court to strike down California’s Proposition 8, which banned same-sex marriage.

 

[josh987654321]

CMatt25:
But don’t you see CMatt25, he took the easy way out by lieing to himself and to his son, this lie to encourage the disordered desires of homosexuality means to put more weight on a homosexuals cross, this lie may benifit them short term as they give into their disordered desires, but long term it will hurt them in ways you cannot imagine, don’t you think a homosexuals cross is heavy enough as it is?

You think you are doing the right thing, but what you are doing is making it worse for homosexuals, because the more you encourage that behaviour as an acceptable normal, the more they will think it okay to purse, than when they have pursed it they will realise the reality, that they and others already knew deep down, that their desires are infact disordered and that people were encouraging them to reach for something that they could never actually obtain no matter how hard they tried, because there are many gifts that a hetrosexual union stands to recieve in marriage that a homosexual union simply cannot, they will be constantly hitting brick wall after brick wall whilst trying to imitate a hetrosexual union, not from others, but from nature itself.

The only way is for homosexuals to accept the cross of their disordered desires, just as everyone else who has disordered desires must do so, this in no way means that they themselves are disordered, it means they themselves are still very capable of living a full and fruitful life along with the rest of us, without being a slave of their desires.

We need to help homosexuals see the tuth aswell, so that it’s not hetrosexuals opposing homosexual desires, but homosexuals opposing their own homosexual desires, just like us hetrosexuals oppose our own immoral and disordered desires.

Thank you for reading
Josh.

 

[epan]

The terminology is not hateful, as used in the whole context of the Church. It teaches ‘respect, compassion, and sensitivity.’

The Church should not surrender any doctrines.

We should take from the teaching of the Church so that we can offer guidance to help those to ‘unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.’

When I first read the CCC, I recoiled somewhat at the word “disordered”, as referring to a person’s sexuality. Once I realized that the assumption is that all sexual activity is “ordered” toward procreation, it made sense.

I think that part of the perceived offense is a lack of understanding of the context of the words, “ordered” and “disordered”. It’s not a bad word, and the language is concise. But another choice of adjective might have made it easier to understand the message.

 

[twoshoes]

His logic is stunningly bad, and the only reason it has support among the left is because they agree with the end result, not the logic itself.

Again, if you think something is wrong, it is wrong. He must think everything his son ever did wrong is now okay. Underage drinking, failing a test, missing curfew - all good things. If his son has an affair, will he endorse adultery? He was weak in his faith, and obviously, never that grounded in the strength of a strong conviction to begin with. Only people with weak beliefs (like the President) change that quickly. Unless of course, they never really believed it to begin with…

Portman was tested by God, and unfortunately (as many of us do), he failed. He was told to sacrifice his son like Abraham, and he balked.

I am sympathetic, because I am sure he loves his son, but he should love God more. I hope he gets voted out the next time around.

Social moderates are no friend to this country or to God.

It takes true love and faith to correct your children when they are wrong, agreeing with there decison to sin is not an act of love. The senator let down all his children, and his voters.

 

[twoshoes]

You were never listening in the first place.

And if my conclusions are truly distortions and falsehoods, then you should be able to reveal their fallacies quite readily - no?:ehh:

Critical thinking is not an element of the same-sex advocates.

What we are now seeing is 5000 years, and 50000 generation and unknow billions of people who knew that homosexuality is a diviant sex lifestyle. Now we a have a generation of 20 year olds that, and their parents who have been enightened. If this sound sarcastic, I sorry, but same-sex marriage is a sickness against all humanity. Same-sex marriage brought to it’s full fruitation will be the end of this civilization, in my humble opinion.

 

[fix]

I do care about the children, but if we hit the ‘truth’ of ‘homosexuality’ than hopefully for most it will not eventuate to the children, the truth needs to be exposed:

I know myself that the acts of ‘homosexuality’ are a disordered desire that is not natural or normal at all, so therefore it should not be persued and it is something to be controled and not encouraged.

Now imagine telling a homosexual this, how hard it would be for them, no doubt that’s why alot would become desperate and become depressed or even contemplate sucide etc.

People in turmoil who act in desperate ways do not do it because they are healthy. They act out because they have deep seated serious problems. It is not about social circumstances.

The depression rate of homosexuals is far greater than for anyone else (not sure the percentage but I know it is) and this is why.

The depression is not because people share the truth. It would be like saying drug addicts kill themselves because society is against drug use.

It is because in their foremind or deep down they know that their desires are disordered, but hetrosexuals also have disordered desires aswell that we must control, we must be telling them that they themselves are not infact disordered and that they can still live a full and fruitful life with the rest of us, with Christ, in controlling their desires.

So knowing this, a truth that all homosexuals and hetrosexuals already know whether it is in their foremind of shoved deep down inside, I ask myself why would they be supporting the acts of ‘homosexuality’ to be ecouraging that kind of behaviour?

This is not the issue. I was referring to the fact that organized political groups want to undue society. That will damage children in ways we cannot even imagine at this point.

The answer is that they see that it is a disordered desire, but to tell a homosexual what I have mentioned above and what we are all saying, would be no doubt very hard and depressing for them to hear, because it may be the truth, but it is a painful truth, this is why other hetrosexuals think that by telling them a lie, by saying “Your desires are fine, your desires are not disordered at all, it’s everyone else who doesn’t understand, who are intolorent, who are attacking who you are, we need to get the message out that homosexuals should be able to live a lifestyle the same as hetrosexuals do in the gifts of marriage and family.” that this lie will help them feel more acceptable and content with themselves.

This lie that people are telling homosexuals is only going to worsen the situation that they are in, as it already has, because they are saying to homosexuals that their goal (to live a lifestyle like hetrosexuals do) is an achievable goal, when infact it is obviously a very unachievable goal, so by passing these laws for same sex marriage’s etc, they are encouraging homosexuals to aim for an unachievable goal, they don’t see it now, but when they have exhausted all opposition, until there is nothing in their way, they will get to the end of their destructive path and realise that the goal they set their sights on, the goal in which others opposed, was infact an unachievable goal, that they could never obtain it, no matter how hard they tried, no matter how many people they stepped on in trying to achieve it.

So we need to be telling hetrosexuals that are supporting homosexual acts such as same sex marriage, that they are trying to do the right thing, but infact they are doing the wrong thing and making it worse by being cruel towards homosexuals, because they are telling them a lie, that their unachievable goal for equality with hetrosexual acts, is achievable, so than people start believing a lie, in which will become more and more evident how unachievable it actually is the more and more homosexuals try to persue it.

If we can help everyone to see that, the goal for equality as a homosexual or for homosexual’s is an unachievable goal, their cross may become heavy by accepting their disordered desires and letting go of that goal that they want, but ultimatly it will be lighter than if they try to persue their desires, because if they try and persue their desires, they will get to the end of their destructive path only to find that their goal was infact impossible to achieve in the first place, and this cross will be far heavier than the one at the beginning, the one of acceptance, of being content with themselves and controling their disordered desires through Christ.

This is how we can help, this is why those in support for same sex relations are labeling us as ‘hate speech’ because they don’t see the harm that they are causing to the homosexuals that they are trying to help, because infact the ones in support are causing more harm to homosexuals than we are, those who are against same sex relations are the ones who are really helping homosexuals, we need everyone to see this.

I no longer feel threatened by gay-activists, I feel pity for them, because they have no idea of the harm they will inflict on themselves and others.

So it’s not whether or not we want to legalise homosexual marriage etc, it’s whether or not we want to tell them a lie, which I think is a cruel thing to do.

Thank you for reading
Josh.

Look, I am not following your path here. Pastoral care to specific homosexual persons is one thing. Political opposition to propagandists is another.

 

[fix]

That will never happen josh. Too many fallacies have taken easy root in our increasingly shallow and narcissistic society.

Heterosexual advocates of same-sex marriage find relief and an illusion of freedom from the lack of moral restraints that are exemplified in the extreme acceptance of gay “marriage”. You will find that most of these advocates also support divorce, abortion, and unrestrained feminism. They are the coalition of narcissistic moral relativism. Their very identity is wrapped up in the delusion of free-expression-of-love-without-shame. For these advocates to promote personal responsibility in the homosexual movement, they would have to accept personal responsibility for their own sordid lives. And there is no way they would ever do that.

I applaud your charitable intentions, but as a former member of the liberal progressive Left, I can assure you you will be wasting your precious time. Your energies would be better served saving the children from this runaway society of imploding self indulgence. It’s time to shake the dust of this culture off of your shoes and let your peace return to you.

Time will prove that my words are wisdom. I know from whence I came.

Good job.

 

[Cor_Cordis]

When I first read the CCC, I recoiled somewhat at the word “disordered”, as referring to a person’s sexuality. Once I realized that the assumption is that all sexual activity is “ordered” toward procreation, it made sense.

I think that part of the perceived offense is a lack of understanding of the context of the words, “ordered” and “disordered”. It’s not a bad word, and the language is concise. But another choice of adjective might have made it easier to understand the message.

That, is a profound epiphany epan. And I mean that in all sincerity.

Your “external” realization of a more contextual and complete sense of the word produced in me an equally revealing context and completeness of your position.

I am humbled.

Thank you.



And I would be remiss if I did not give equal credit to you Prodigal Son. Or even more so.

Especially since I missed the larger implication of your words the first time.

Thank you.

The terminology is not hateful, as used in the whole context of the Church. It teaches ‘respect, compassion, and sensitivity.’

The Church should not surrender any doctrines.

We should take from the teaching of the Church so that we can offer guidance to help those to ‘unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.’

 

[fix]

True, and the sad thing is that, due to these attitudes there are many Gays who commit suicide, there are others who feel shunned and are emotionally damaged because of the attitudes of people who, because they are not gay, think that they have a pipeline to The Man Upstairs.

It is the opposite. Many who claim they are “gay” think they have rights that do not exist. They demand things that are wrong. They foist their agenda on others.

At least Portman’s son will probably not be found hanging in his closet, and he will be able to share his life and his family with his original family.

People who kill themselves have severe psychiatric problems. People do not kill themselves because some left in society refuse to accept what is unacceptable.

I understand that many people who are writing in this thread are convinced that they have taken the right course because they refuse to respect the civil rights of the Gay community, I want to remind them that NO ONE is saying that the church should change it’s laws, however, the issue is not changing churches, it’s changing the civil rights as practiced in the communities. There are gay marriages that last until one partner dies, plenty of them.

I want to remind you it is not an exclusive sectarian issue. Catholics care about all of society. We have an obligation to protect children and families.

There are many WRONG things happening in the world today, the Iraq war comes to mind as a biggie, so many American youth died and for what? There are families that have gone bankrupt because of medical problems of one member. Worst of all, in a country where there are families who throw out 70 dollars worth of food a week, there are also people who are hungry, all are worthy issues to be fought either for or against, Gay marriage is not one of them.

“Gay” marriage is one of the central issues of our time. The family is the basic unit of civilization. Destroy that and you have no need to worry about money.

I’m certain that at least one pope demanded that all Gays were to be loved and respected, he did not said ‘except the married ones’…I know that a married Gay couple will never be welcomed in a Catholic church, that they will miss the joy of community and the spiritual benefits of Catholicism, but there will be churches that will say that they are welcome and will treat them with the love and respect they deserve. As for me, I wish them well. And I respect the senator who made a dangerous decision to come out himself in spite of the retribution he will and has received from the voters and from many in the Catholic community.

Endorsing mortal sin will not help anyone involved. Leading others astray never works out well.

 

[LisaA]

It seems that many people, perhaps many of the young, have a moral blind spot. They may reject violence, unjust war, oppression of peoples, and favor helping the poor. But they believe either that dysfunctional sexual practices have no effect on social structures and family stability, and civilizational stability; or they believe that there are no such things as dysfunctional sexual practices, because any action involving sex is okay, disordered or not. In that, they are egregiously wrong. It is family, children, and civilization which will suffer from such mistaken beliefs.

YES! Young people particularly, marinated in the Leftist utopian baloney that doesn’t work in real life mistake support and love for all persons with supporting disordered ideas, practices, and lifestyles.

To quote George Bush, when I was young and stupid, I was young and stupid. I grew up in the 1960s which spawned the evils of sexual libertine lifestyles in this country and watched it happen. Armed with effective contraceptives they soldiered along, ignoring the emotional and physical and societal impact of their activities. I drank the Kool Aid too, thinking we couldn’t “judge” people and that consenting adults ought to be able to do what they wanted. While I didn’t live the libertine lifestyle I looked at it as innocuous and not hurting me in any way. Now I look at society and particularly the impact on children through participation in various charities and social services organizations. Single motherhood and its poverty, STDs, child abuse, drugs and failure to take responsibility for our own actions are everywhere. Homosexuality, which has been part of the human condition, is now everywhere as if anyone should be party to others’ private lives. Now we are forced to participate in what is disordered and abnormal behavior as homosexuality is ‘mainstreamed’ even at primary schools.

The theory we cannot judge others has been elevated to an artform even though it’s often erroneously interpreted as allowing virtually any sort of behavior and activity unless the negative impact is immediate and wide ranging. We are allowing the lunatics to run the asylum.

Lisa

 

[Cor_Cordis]

A very timely piece from our Jewish brother:
**
Dennis Prager** -
Why Change Your Position On Marriage Just Because Someone You Love Is Gay?

"Progressives do not seem to recognize that in life there is always tension between standards and compassion. Standards, by definition, cannot allow for compassion for every individual. If society were to show compassion to every individual, it would have no standards. Speeding laws are not waived for the unfortunate soul who has to catch an important flight. Orchestral standards are not waived for the musician who has devoted his or her life to studying an instrument, is a wonderful person and needs the job to support a family.

It is either right to maintain the man-woman definition of our most important social institution, or is it not. We cannot base our decision on compassion for gays, whether the gay is our child, our sibling, our friend or anyone else.

Yes, societies have changed qualifications for marriage regarding age and number, but no society before the 21st century ever considered redefining the fundamental nature of marriage by changing the sexes. That is why it is not honest to argue that same-sex marriage is just another redefinition. It is the most radical change to the definition of marriage in the history of civilization.

How then should people of compassion deal with this, or any other, issue? By asking whether we maintain standards or whether we change them because of compassion. Do we change universities’ academic standards out of compassion for blacks and their history of persecution, or do we maintain college admission standards? Do we change military standards in order to enable women to enter fighting units or do we ask only what is the best policy to maintain military excellence?"

 

[fix]

A very timely piece from our Jewish brother:
**
Dennis Prager** -
Why Change Your Position On Marriage Just Because Someone You Love Is Gay?

**

Yes, people have “compassion” for the homosexual person and their acts. They have no compassion for the rest of society though.

 

[LisaA]

Hardly the same thing, and he’s been in politics for years, he decided that his kid was more important than his job.
Besides I don’t understand your second comment, of course if your ox was being gored due to your own stupidity you would change your mind. Before new information became available the best minds in the world thought that the world was flat, changing your mind is a sign of maturity and continuous learning.

You have not followed the thread and have not read the actual press release. Portman’s son did not express a desire to be married or express a desire for SSM to be part of his legislative agenda. Nor did he tell his father that he would no longer be his son if Portman didn’t support SSM.

The analogy of “the world is flat” is a canard. You are conflating a change in knowledge about a reality with a change in philosophy about a social issue. So you claim that Portman’s previous position regarding marriage was “stupid?” I guess you think the Church’s teaching on same sex attraction is also “stupid.” Glad to hear you know much more about biology, theology and sociology than thousands of years of wisdom.

Oh and homosexuals are not born homosexual. If you had taken the time to read the thread you would have seen multiple posts on the subject. Sexual attraction, sexual identification, and sexual activity changes. It is not an innate characteristic such as being born female.

I saw that several posters have addressed your overly dramatic portrayal of homosexuals’ supposed anguish at society’s “hate” for them so no need to repeat.

Lisa

 

[LisaA]

A very timely piece from our Jewish brother:
**
Dennis Prager** -
Why Change Your Position On Marriage Just Because Someone You Love Is Gay?

**

My favorite Rabbi! Listen to him every day!
Lisa

 

[fix]

His logic is stunningly bad, and the only reason it has support among the left is because they agree with the end result, not the logic itself.

Again, if you think something is wrong, it is wrong. He must think everything his son ever did wrong is now okay. Underage drinking, failing a test, missing curfew - all good things. If his son has an affair, will he endorse adultery? He was weak in his faith, and obviously, never that grounded in the strength of a strong conviction to begin with. Only people with weak beliefs (like the President) change that quickly. Unless of course, they never really believed it to begin with…

That is very true.

 

[aidanbradypop]

Don’t forget, many of these marriages are also not faithful. Most same-sex relationships do not last long without bringing other into the bedroom. Promiscuity is an open secret in the gay community. They want marriage for legal benefits (tax breaks, health care, adoption rights), not because they want to stay together and only be with each other for life.

I think this senator is in an emotional state, and emotions are the devil’s playground. He was probably shaken when his son “came out” as gay and instead of learning to stand his ground on his beliefs, he allowed his beliefs to be changed because he didn’t want to hurt his son’s feelings if he didn’t approve of his lifestyle (not to be separated from love of the person; you can love a person and still not approve of their lifestyle).

The very first gay couple ever married in the US (I believe in CA) are now divorced.