Republican senator announces support for gay marriage

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I hope you do realize that you simply can’t prohibit homosexuals both female and male to take part in a procreation process.There is no way under The Declaration of Human Rights and under our Constitution that homosexuals could be by law prohibited to have children.

Even if somehow you manage to enact a law that would ban artificial insemination and IVF via medical centers one still can pretty easily deliver sperm into a woman’s vagina without any medical procedures whatsoever.

Ergo children WILL be born to same-sex couple no matter what you or any catholic want.

So, what would your actions be then? Would you enact another law that would effectively allow social services to take away by force homosexuals’ own children for them to be placed into a good christian family? Were they to violate this law would they be arrested?
I mean where do you draw the line?

If you don’t push it that far then what about social protection and security for these children and their family that is applied only when their parents have a certain status whether it is a union or marriage?
 
I hope you do realize that you simply can’t prohibit homosexuals both female and male to take part in a procreation process.There is no way under The Declaration of Human Rights and under our Constitution that homosexuals could be by law prohibited to have children.
So you think homosexuals should sleep with the opposite sex, have a child and than remove the mother or father from the child’s life and that is okay to you?
Even if somehow you manage to enact a law that would ban artificial insemination and IVF via medical centers one still can pretty easily deliver sperm into a woman’s vagina without any medical procedures whatsoever.
Well that would kind of defeat the point of homosexuality wouldn’t it?
Ergo children WILL be born to same-sex couple no matter what you or any catholic want.
You think it’s religious will that homosexuals don’t have children and not the fact that it’s impossible?

Children will not be born to same sex couples as that is impossible, as you need x and y chromosome’s to have a child.

Children will be born through hetrosexuality, than they will remove the father or mother from the child’s life, and you think thats okay?
So, what would your actions be then? Would you enact another law that would effectively allow social services to take away by force homosexuals’ own children for them to be placed into a good christian family? Were they to violate this law would they be arrested?
I mean where do you draw the line?
homosexuals own children??? homosexuals cannot have their own children as that wouldn’t be homosexuality, to have children would need hetrosexuality being x and y chromosome’s and than in doing that they would have to remove either the childs mother or father from the childs life, to return back to homosexuality.
If you don’t push it that far then what about social protection and security for these children and their family that is applied only when their parents have a certain status whether it is a union or marriage?
Every child would have protection, and I would encompass providing a child with a mum and a dad to the best of peoples abilities as part of a child’s protection, sometimes children unfortunatly cannot always have that, but to say that a child doesn’t need a mother and a father is wrong, to do it any other way is to raise a child crippled, sometimes there is no other way, but it’s wrong to intentionaly cripple a child, I doubt single parents had children planning to raise them as single parents becuase that would be just as wrong.

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
Gay marriage threatens my straight marriage? ** COMPLETE AND UTTER NONSENSE**. Facts, please? My wife love each other more every day. 10 years together, and our bond is safe and sound, thank you very much.

Blacks couldn’t marry white several decades ago, and yes it is a civil rights issue.
“It’s not natural”, “It’s Communism”, etc. Same arguments. Same paranoia stirring claims of Government intrusion in our lives. Same bogeyman threat of Hellfire…and yet, the sky didn’t fall. Gee…

Every 4 years, we elect a President, not a Pastor.

How 'bout we concentrate on feeding and sheltering people instead of supposedly “Saving America from God’s wrath”? How about medical care for all Americans? Why, yes, it does cost money. SO WHAT? **It’s not our money…it’s GOD’S money. We are mere stewards. **Good luck telling our Blessed Lord that your taxes could have helped MANY more people that private efforts could do, but because you opposed so-called “Socialism”, when in reality it’s selfishness. Selfishness under the guise of “patriotism” ain’t gonna fly on Judgment day. But no, just whining about wallets and so called “Socialism” is sadly what’s going on. THAT is a scandal. More Christians should be doing cartwheels of joy that more people are getting care already. And how about we mind our own business? ("Also, make it your goal to live quietly, to mind your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we instructed you, 1 Thessalonians 4:11) Interracial couples get married and no one bats an eye. A same sex couple gets married until civil law? Oh, noooo! Lions and tigers and bears, oh my!

I am NO fan of so called “Liberation theology”, but this quote is certainly appropriate:

“When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist.”
  • Dom Helder Camara: Essential Writings
Sadly, I’ll wager that cheesy ad hominem arguments, and veering off from the matters I wrote will be forthcoming.

God bless all here on C.A.F.!
 
I hope you do realize that you simply can’t prohibit homosexuals both female and male to take part in a procreation process.There is no way under The Declaration of Human Rights and under our Constitution that homosexuals could be by law prohibited to have children.

Even if somehow you manage to enact a law that would ban artificial insemination and IVF via medical centers one still can pretty easily deliver sperm into a woman’s vagina without any medical procedures whatsoever.

Ergo children WILL be born to same-sex couple no matter what you or any catholic want.

So, what would your actions be then? Would you enact another law that would effectively allow social services to take away by force homosexuals’ own children for them to be placed into a good christian family? Were they to violate this law would they be arrested?
I mean where do you draw the line?

If you don’t push it that far then what about social protection and security for these children and their family that is applied only when their parents have a certain status whether it is a union or marriage?
AMEN.
 
Gay marriage threatens my straight marriage? ** COMPLETE AND UTTER NONSENSE**. Facts, please? My wife love each other more every day. 10 years together, and our bond is safe and sound, thank you very much.

Blacks couldn’t marry white several decades ago, and yes it is a civil rights issue.
“It’s not natural”, “It’s Communism”, etc. Same arguments. Same paranoia stirring claims of Government intrusion in our lives. Same bogeyman threat of Hellfire…and yet, the sky didn’t fall. Gee…

Every 4 years, we elect a President, not a Pastor.

How 'bout we concentrate on feeding and sheltering people instead of supposedly “Saving America from God’s wrath”? How about medical care for all Americans? Why, yes, it does cost money. SO WHAT? **It’s not our money…it’s GOD’S money. We are mere stewards. **Good luck telling our Blessed Lord that your taxes could have helped MANY more people that private efforts could do, but because you opposed so-called “Socialism”, when in reality it’s selfishness. Selfishness under the guise of “patriotism” ain’t gonna fly on Judgment day. But no, just whining about wallets and so called “Socialism” is sadly what’s going on. THAT is a scandal. More Christians should be doing cartwheels of joy that more people are getting care already. And how about we mind our own business? ("Also, make it your goal to live quietly, to mind your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we instructed you, 1 Thessalonians 4:11) Interracial couples get married and no one bats an eye. A same sex couple gets married until civil law? Oh, noooo! Lions and tigers and bears, oh my!

I am NO fan of so called “Liberation theology”, but this quote is certainly appropriate:

“When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist.”
  • Dom Helder Camara: Essential Writings
Sadly, I’ll wager that cheesy ad hominem arguments, and veering off from the matters I wrote will be forthcoming.

God bless all here on C.A.F.!
Sounds to me like you are on the wrong forum. Wrath of God? Really?
 
Gay marriage threatens my straight marriage? ** COMPLETE AND UTTER NONSENSE**.
Possibly you are unaware that you have just called the Catholic Bishops of the United States, as well as the Vatican, purveyors of
** COMPLETE AND UTTER NONSENSE**.
This is the opposite instruction they have given to the Catholic faithful. Marriage is an institution which affects everyone. And yes, the bad marriage next door and the great marriage down the street both affect your marriage. More importantly, the erosion of an icon affects all of society.

It seems that you need some information about the requirement of Catholics to bring Catholic convictions on settled moral doctrine into the public square and the voting booth.

The bishops and the Vatican are the sources for how a Catholic is to consider these issues in the public square, and they do not agree that marriage is a private matter. This is definitive Church teaching, binding on Catholics.

One of the many documents in which the bishops do not agree with you:
marriageuniqueforareason.org

for Catholics, marriage is also a key public policy issue, in fact one of six raised by the U.S. bishops when they reissued Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship, their call to political responsibility. This means marriage is not only something that matters to the doctrine of the Church and the private lives of the people entering into it. It matters to all society.

The reason it matters is because marriage affects the common good. In fact, the two are inseparably intertwined. As the Second Vatican Council put it, **“The well-being of the individual person and of human and Christian society is intimately linked with the healthy condition of that community produced by marriage and the family.” **In fact, because the union of husband and wife is uniquely capable of welcoming new life into the world, the Church describes marriage as the very “condition” for society’s existence.

Because of marriage’s unique contribution to society, all people should be concerned with its well-being. In Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship, the bishops write that, in light of the tragic consequences of marriage’s breakdown or disappearance, especially for children, “policies on taxes, work, divorce, immigration, and welfare should help families stay together.” They also advocate for wages that “allow workers to support their families” and for public assistance for struggling families.

In addition to urging policies that strengthen marriages and families, the bishops are deeply concerned with “intensifying efforts” to redefine marriage, namely proposals to remove sexual difference from marriage. This is not “expanding” marriage, as the bishops see it, but rather redefining it and in effect dismantling it. Sexual difference is not an optional component of marriage but rather an essential element, rooted in the nature of the human person created male and female.

Both the bishops of the United States and Pope Benedict XVI have stated that defending marriage as the union of one man and one woman is, as the Pope taught in one ad limina talk, “ultimately a question of justice, since it entails safeguarding the good of the entire human community and the rights of parents and children alike.” Defending marriage does justice to the child by providing him or her with the best possibility of knowing and being loved by both mother and father together. In contrast, redefining marriage asserts that mothers and fathers are interchangeable and denies a child the right to know both a father and a mother. It also obscures the core of marriage, namely the union of husband and wife founded on sexual difference.

USCCB, Pastoral Letter Marriage: Love and Life in the Divine Plan (2009)

The marital vocation is not a private or merely personal affair. Yes, marriage is a deeply personal union and relationship, but it is also for the good of the Church and the entire community” (p. 44).

For an authentic education in the Catholic Church’s teaching on marriage, there is no substitute for the primary, authoritative teaching documents of the Church. On the Church Teachings page, you’ll find links to these main documents: the Catechism, papal encyclicals, Second Vatican Council documents, and more.

usccb.org/issues-and-acti…f-marriage.cfm
 
continuing…

What about “civil unions” or “domestic partnerships” between two persons of the same sex?
Marriage is a unique good in itself. Nothing compares to the unique partnership of husband and wife, who through their sexual difference form a life-giving communion. No relationship between persons of the same sex can be the same as that between a man and a woman, nor should they ever be treated as analogous to marriage in any way. Thus, legal categories such as “civil unions” or “domestic partnerships” that claim equivalent or analogous status to marriage are wrong and unjust, harmful both to the person and to society. Legal categories such as “civil unions” or “domestic partnerships” should never be treated as analogous to marriage. Such legal approval of “civil unions” contributes to the erosion of the authentic meaning of marriage. As such, they are never acceptable. Basic human rights are not protected but violated by the erosion and redefinition of marriage.
old.usccb.org/comm/archives/2011/11-134.shtml
WASHINGTON— Bishop Salvatore J. Cordileone, the Chairman of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops’ (USCCB) Subcommittee for the Promotion and Defense of Marriage, has denounced the passage of a civil unions bill in Rhode Island.

The Rhode Island legislature enacted a statute this week creating a new legal status deemed to be parallel to marriage, thus allowing two persons of the same sex to obtain all of the rights of spouses by forming what the new law designates to be a civil union. In response, Bishop Cordileone reiterated that “marriage, the communion of husband and wife, is a unique reality that has no true parallel. The exclusive and permanent bond of a man and woman joined in marriage offers to the couple and to society a preeminent value that should not be eclipsed by governmental attempts to redesign fundamental realities by legal dictate.”

Bishop Cordileone stated that elevating same-sex relationships to marital status with all of the rights of marriage, even if the new status is not called marriage, “fails justice because now the government is treating as similar two different realities that cannot be considered as analogous or equivalent in any way.” Bishop Cordileone reaffirmed the remarks of Bishop Thomas J. Tobin of Providence, Rhode Island, who after the civil union vote indicated that “a civil union can never be accepted as a legitimate alternative to holy matrimony” because it promotes an unacceptable lifestyle, undermines marriage, and causes confusion and scandal. “As pointed out by Bishop Tobin,” Bishop Cordileone said, “the legalization of civil unions in Rhode Island further erodes marriage’s unique status and meaning and promotes the crossing of moral boundaries. In no way can civil union measures be considered a permissible compromise or a step in advancing the common good; instead, they directly violate principles of justice and accelerate the push to redefine marriage itself.”

Oh, and parenthetically, the Vatican also does not agree with you:😉

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html

Have a nice Sunday. 😉
 
Hi Elizabeth502,

You’ve presented not a single fact. Just how does a bad marriage next door affect my marriage?
 
Hi Elizabeth502,

You’ve presented not a single fact. Just how does a bad marriage next door affect my marriage?
Again, re-read the documents from the Roman Catholic Church. They were linked for you. It’s not about private marriages; it’s about the institution. This is settled Church teaching. Please do some work. I’m not authorized on CAF to give you the entire course, because to do so would dominate the forum. The Bishops’ umbrella document above contains within it the resources and the reasoning. They have instructed U.S. Catholics on how to think like a Catholic in the public square.

This is just basic stuff for the common pew Catholic. It’s not rarefied, but it is mandatory.
 
Sayin’ don’t make it so. I’m aware of what the Church teaches on this topic. I strongly disagree.

I’ve yet to see how Gay marriage, a bad marriage, or a good marriage affects mine. And believe me, I’ve asked a LOT of people how gay folks getting married will affect their marriage. The response is either “It doesn’t” or silly rants. This is why I appreciate your replies. It’s refreshing to have a civil conversation wherein both parties can disagree. Thank you!
 
hildren will not be born to same sex couples as that is impossible, as you need x and y chromosome’s to have a child.
I think you are lacking in biology and reason

Gay men and women can easily “work out” around this “problem” together. As i said it is very easy to deliver sperm into a woman’s vagina.And delivering it into a vagina wont make them heterosexual. They can do it even without any intercourse and without any medical instruments\procedures

My question stands still: would you by force remove these children from their families?
Children will be born through hetrosexuality
This is a meaningless sentence. Children are formed in a womb and are born out of women’s bodies that get pregnant by inserting male’s sperm.

The way it is inserted doesn’t matter much

Especially it is meaningless sentence Nature-wise considering that there are plenty of species that can procreate by a wide variety of means not related to biological sex or intercourse between opposite sex species.What a shocker! God must be angry!🙂
homosexuals cannot have their own children
WHAT?

Are you mocking us?
A homosexual woman gives birth to a child. It’s her own child
Are you going to take that child away?

A homosexual man delivers sperm to a,say, gay woman vagina- they are both biological parents.
It has nothing to do the their sexual orientation.
 
I think you are lacking in biology and reason

Gay men and women can easily “work out” around this “problem” together. As i said it is very easy to deliver sperm into a woman’s vagina.And delivering it into a vagina wont make them heterosexual. They can do it even without any intercourse and without any medical instruments\procedures

My question stands still: would you by force remove these children from their families?

This is a meaningless sentence. Children are formed in a womb and are born out of women’s bodies that get pregnant by inserting male’s sperm.

The way it is inserted doesn’t matter much

Especially it is meaningless sentence Nature-wise considering that there are plenty of species that can procreate by a wide variety of means not related to biological sex or intercourse between opposite sex species.What a shocker! God must be angry!🙂

WHAT?

Are you mocking us?
A homosexual woman gives birth to a child. It’s her own child
Are you going to take that child away?

A homosexual man delivers sperm to a,say, gay woman vagina- they are both biological parents.
It has nothing to do the their sexual orientation.
SO they want to have their cake and eat it, too?

One presumes when speaking of two homosexual men and saying they cannot reproduce, it is is because they aren’t having heterosexual intercourse the way nature and God intended to do so.

That’s like you and your wife haven;t been able to have kids, and when asked why, you tell the doctor it is because you keep trying by having intercourse with another man. Well, duh.

Yes a lesbian could get pregnant, if she is not monogamous with her partner. However, if we are talking about a monogamous pairing (as we are led to believe), it would preclude two men for example, from ever having a child.
 
SO they want to have their cake and eat it, too?

One presumes when speaking of two homosexual men and saying they cannot reproduce, it is is because they aren’t having heterosexual intercourse the way nature and God intended to do so.

That’s like you and your wife haven;t been able to have kids, and when asked why, you tell the doctor it is because you keep trying by having intercourse with another man. Well, duh.

Yes a lesbian could get pregnant, if she is not monogamous with her partner. However, if we are talking about a monogamous pairing (as we are led to believe), it would preclude two men for example, from ever having a child.
“STAN: I want to be a woman. From now on, I want you all to call me ‘Loretta’.
REG: What?!
LORETTA: It’s my right as a man.
JUDITH: Well, why do you want to be Loretta, Stan?
LORETTA: I want to have babies.
REG: You want to have babies?!
LORETTA: It’s every man’s right to have babies if he wants them.
REG: But… you can’t have babies.
LORETTA: Don’t you oppress me.
REG: I’m not oppressing you, Stan. You haven’t got a womb! Where’s the foetus going to gestate?! You going to keep it in a box?!”
 
I think you are lacking in biology and reason

Gay men and women can easily “work out” around this “problem” together. As i said it is very easy to deliver sperm into a woman’s vagina.And delivering it into a vagina wont make them heterosexual. They can do it even without any intercourse and without any medical instruments\procedures

My question stands still: would you by force remove these children from their families?

This is a meaningless sentence. Children are formed in a womb and are born out of women’s bodies that get pregnant by inserting male’s sperm.

The way it is inserted doesn’t matter much

Especially it is meaningless sentence Nature-wise considering that there are plenty of species that can procreate by a wide variety of means not related to biological sex or intercourse between opposite sex species.What a shocker! God must be angry!🙂

WHAT?

Are you mocking us?
A homosexual woman gives birth to a child. It’s her own child
Are you going to take that child away?

A homosexual man delivers sperm to a,say, gay woman vagina- they are both biological parents.
It has nothing to do the their sexual orientation.
Excellent post! You’ve summed up exactly what is wrong with considering homosexual unions the equivalent of a heterosexual union. 👍
 
Oh, noooo! Lions and tigers and bears, oh my!
No, lions and tigers only. Bears are for when you tease bald men about their baldness: 2 Kings 2:23-24.

Maybe for same sex marriage it would be parthenogenic lizards, like Cnemidophorus neomexicanus?

rossum
 
Sayin’ don’t make it so. I’m aware of what the Church teaches on this topic. I strongly disagree.
And lots of Catholics “strongly disagree” on other matters which are equally binding, but their strong disagreement on those matters does not permit dissent or opposition, either. CAF poster and Brother JReducation has written on this – how private disagreement or personal difficulty with a doctrine or a current practice does not shield the Catholic from obedience to that and compliance with it, as well as care with the scandal our private disagreement can cause when it becomes public and cavalier.
I’ve yet to see how Gay marriage, a bad marriage, or a good marriage affects mine. And believe me, I’ve asked a LOT of people how gay folks getting married will affect their marriage. The response is either “It doesn’t” or silly rants. This is why I appreciate your replies. It’s refreshing to have a civil conversation wherein both parties can disagree. Thank you!
The authority on how homosexual (faux) “marriage” affects the institution of marriage in society is not those people who support the entire redefinition of marriage as a private affair, because the institution of marriage is not a private affair, which is why the State is involved in the first place, and why traditional marriage has been (mostly) recognized by civil authorities for quite some time. Your casual “experts” have completely missed the boat on marriage, and should read Professor Robert George’s book What Is Marriage, which speaks to the same absolute theology which the Church also promotes and binds its members. He has appeared on EWTN and on other media outlets, explainng the philosophical, theological, and legal reasons why the redefinition of marriage affects all of society.

You said that you “know what the Church teaches,” but it’s apparent that you don’t, or you would understand why this is a critical issue. Ideas, principles, and ideals are not just important to faithful Catholics, they are actually central to a participatory democracy and to this country in particular. Society depends for its order, its structure, and its continuity, on common reference points. The Church cares about this order as most beneficial to an ordered society, in which children understand that the goal-posts of Truth and permanency are not constantly moving with the latest political, emotional, or social fad.

Further, Faithful Citizenship (linked on CAF, in Catholic News) requires (does not just permits, but requires) all Catholics to acquaint themselves with civic issues on which the Church has an unambiguous stand, and to influence the non-Catholic world with various methods of persuasion, the least of which is voting in accord with Church teachings.
🙂
 
The Church is not a democracy. Regardless of my personal sympathy, empathy, or apathy concerning Church positions on controversial issues, I support the Magisterium and the Holy See 100%. As a Catholic, I have no other option.
 
Sayin’ don’t make it so. I’m aware of what the Church teaches on this topic. I strongly disagree.

I’ve yet to see how Gay marriage, a bad marriage, or a good marriage affects mine. And believe me, I’ve asked a LOT of people how gay folks getting married will affect their marriage. The response is either “It doesn’t” or silly rants. This is why I appreciate your replies. It’s refreshing to have a civil conversation wherein both parties can disagree. Thank you!
In the end, it doesn’t really matter if we “get it.”

While this is nice, we are simply called to obey. No onecan fully get the Trinity, but few Catholics question it. Yet with other matters, their obedience is contigent on them understanding and agreeing with the Chuch.

I suggest you continue to strive for understanding, but that doesn’t mean your obedience isn’t required even if you never understand it.
 
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