Republican senator announces support for gay marriage

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Actually, heterosexual marriage is the basis of it all. If there were no heterosexual marriage, no 1138 benefits attached to marriage-there would be no call for gay marriage or any type of marriage at all.

So, since I guess the answer is to end marriage completely, and all married couples in the US should give up their benefits. That way nobody ever has to worry about any of the consequences of that slippery slope!

Problem solved!!

Have a nice day!
 
Someone whom I know is gay, but that is not a valid reason to change my views, however it is a reason to be more sensitive in regards to my arguments, it’s because I care about them that my views against homosexual marriage and the acts of homosexuality are emphasised and I try to be more sensitive to the issue.

Because by encouraging homosexuality through homosexual marriage, we are encouraging them to sin, we are leading them down a destructive path, the acts of homosexuality are disordered and immoral desires to act on, we should feel pity towards homosexuals who through out of weakness give into such disordered and immoral desires, if they truly care about those homosexuals that they know, than they should be encouraging them to control their disordered and immoral desires, by opposing same sex marriage, not be a slave to them by encouraging same sex marriage.

I think they most likely changed it because they didn’t know enough about it to begin with, they were going along with the crowd until their crowd turned out to be going the other way.

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
InSearchofGrace said:
To add to the above, many if not all homosexuals are truly offended, with reason, when the subject of pedophilia is raised along with discussion on homosexuality. One objection as Seeker repeats is that the two are different and distant from each other; pedophilia as acted on is rape because a minor can not give consent, whereas homosexuality as acted on is between consenting adults. We know that legal age of consent is not uniform, it varies from state to state, and it has been known to change through time. With pressure groups such as that in the UK and NAMBLA in the US, really, the legal age of consent is continually being challenged. Why, NAMBLA’s stated mission is to remove the age of consent laws…

It can not be denied that there is in fact an overlap between homosexuality and pedophilia, evidenced by the existence of NAMBLA. Its members assert that children are capable of consent, and that not all are victims. Children can be groomed, and the wily predators make sure they know the birthdate of the object of sexual desire. They insist of course it is LOVE. Sick is what it is.

Another objection or comeback is that there are more heterosexual pedophiles than homosexual pedophiles, which is true statistically, 2:1, according to this NCBI exploratory study. Interestingly, the same study also suggests that the proportion of pedophiles among persons with a homosexual erotic development is greater than that in persons who develop heterosexually.

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Minors can already get married with parental permission or court permission. It varies greatly by state, but the youngest appears to be 12, unless pregnant. Highly unlikely that age of consent to marry would go below that.

And if statistics mean anything, we won’t have to be concerned with Pedophiles looking to marry. Children have expiration dates to them and one child is never enough.

Consent to have sex laws are an entirely different issue, that has nothing to do with marriage.
 
epan said:
Pew did a poll to try to figure out why this trend is moving so rapidly. So, they asked people who had changed their minds what the reason is. The largest percentage gave the same reason as Sen. Portman. Because of someone whom they know who is gay.

washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/03/21/support-for-gay-marriage-is-soaring-heres-why/?wprss=rss_story-courts_law-NW3&tid=pp_widget
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Something tells me this isn’t accurate… maybe it’s the fact the percentages total 106%. 🤷

Much of the change, I suspect is “copycat” syndrome. Everyone else is doing it, so I have to too.
 
SuperLuigi said:
Hmmm…I think there was a breakdown in communication on my part. To be clear, Jason Lewis notes that fiscal and social liberalism cannot be separate, because once government gets involved, it will just spend more money on the issue.
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Do you think that the spending is the problem, or is it the deficits?

Until Obama, the record shows quite clearly that republicans lead the way in deficit spending as a percentage of GDP. So there is that.

Taxation is a form of income redistribution, plain and simple. More than redistributing it domestically, I object more to sending it to our creditors overseas. In the former case, the net to our national wealth is zero. In the latter case, we are sending wealth out of the country.
 
Dawnia said:
Something tells me this isn’t accurate… maybe it’s the fact the percentages total 106%. 🤷

Much of the change, I suspect is “copycat” syndrome. Everyone else is doing it, so I have to too.
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Here is the source that the Washington Post must have been using. There are some interesting numbers and conclusions:

pewresearch.org/2013/03/21/gay-marriage-key-data-points-from-pew-research/

Pretty much, we all know, as the Post article states:
Whatever the reason, sentiment is quite clearly shifting. And … , the fact that a) young people are far more supportive of gay marriage than older people and b) each generation gets more supportive of it as it ages suggests that the political debate over gay marriage is likely over.
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The trend is clear.

http://www.people-press.org/files/2013/03/3-20-13-1.png
http://www.people-press.org/files/2013/03/3-20-13-10.png
 
epan said:
Pew did a poll to try to figure out why this trend is moving so rapidly. So, they asked people who had changed their minds what the reason is. The largest percentage gave the same reason as Sen. Portman. Because of someone whom they know who is gay.

washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/03/21/support-for-gay-marriage-is-soaring-heres-why/?wprss=rss_story-courts_law-NW3&tid=pp_widget
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Their stated motives don’t make any sense to me.

Of course my gay friends are wonderful, they are children of God. So are my friends who have premarital sex, or who masturbate… but that doesn’t mean they’re not gravely hurting themselves through embracing thoughts and actions that are unequivocally sinful… which lead them away from God, and which irreparably harm their souls.

I’m not going to endorse relationships that enable that anymore than I’d endorse an abusive boyfriend or girlfriend. If I did, how could I honestly say that I love them?
 
Havard said:
Their stated motives don’t make any sense to me.

Of course my gay friends are wonderful, they are children of God. So are my friends who have premarital sex, or who masturbate… but that doesn’t mean they’re not gravely hurting themselves through embracing thoughts and actions that are unequivocally sinful… which lead them away from God, and which irreparably harm their souls.

I’m not going to endorse relationships that enable that anymore than I’d endorse an abusive boyfriend or girlfriend. If I did, how could I honestly say that I love them?
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Are you the silent, boomer, gen x, or later generation?

Here is an interesting one which shows that Catholic acceptance of the idea was growing at the same rate as Protestant acceptance, until 2012. So, while 55% of Protestants now support gay marriage (up 15% since 2003), only 48% of Catholics support gay marriage (up 8%).

features.pewforum.org/same-sex-marriage-attitudes/slide3.php

Meanwhile, the percentage within those groups has remained more stable, with about 70% saying that gay marriage violates their religious beliefs. There appear to be a growing number of people who believe that in spite of the fact that same sex marriage would violate their religious views. that it should be accepted by society. I guess this issue is a lot like divorce, in that sense.

http://www.people-press.org/files/2013/03/3-20-13-6.png
 
epan said:
Are you the silent, boomer, gen x, or later generation?

Here is an interesting one which shows that Catholic acceptance of the idea was growing at the same rate as Protestant acceptance, until 2012. So, while 55% of Protestants now support gay marriage (up 15% since 2003), only 48% of Catholics support gay marriage (up 8%).

features.pewforum.org/same-sex-marriage-attitudes/slide3.php

Meanwhile, the percentage within those groups has remained more stable, with about 70% saying that gay marriage violates their religious beliefs. There appear to be a growing number of people who believe that in spite of the fact that same sex marriage would violate their religious views. that it should be accepted by society. I guess this issue is a lot like divorce, in that sense.

http://www.people-press.org/files/2013/03/3-20-13-6.png
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I’m a single 36 year old male from San Francisco. Everybody in my demo is pro gay marriage. In a similar vein, I literally do not know one person I didn’t meet specifically through Church channels who believes in waiting for marriage for sex or cohabiting. In fact, most single people I *have *met through Church channels don’t even wait until marriage.

I don’t see what the prevailing wisdom of my demographic matters when it comes to this. Polling popular opinion isn’t an intellectually sound way to arrive at Truth.
 
Epan, my counterargument is that these surveys are doing things argumentum ad populum. It’s problematic because of Catholic teachings on this subject.
 
Havard said:
I’m a single 36 year old male from San Francisco. Everybody in my demo is pro gay marriage. In a similar vein, I literally do not know one person I didn’t meet specifically through Church channels who believes in waiting for marriage for sex or cohabiting. In fact, most single people I *have *met through Church channels don’t even wait until marriage.

I don’t see what the prevailing wisdom of my demographic matters when it comes to this. Polling popular opinion isn’t an intellectually sound way to arrive at Truth.
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I am not debating truth. I have never claimed to be in favor of gay marriage. I am saying that the political fight is over. That oral arguments will be happening on Wednesday on a topic which was unthinkable 20 years ago is evidence enough of that.

If anything, even someone like Scalia wants to go down in history as being on the correct side of historic social trends.

One of four possible outcomes is that every anti-gay marriage law or amendment could be struck down with one decision. Not the most likely outcome. But entirely possible.

The number and quality of amici briefs is astounding. And no government lawyer is defending in official capacity. Prop 8 might be returned to the lower court. For lack of standing by the defense team.
 
Crescentinus said:
Epan, my counterargument is that these surveys are doing things argumentum ad populum. It’s problematic because of Catholic teachings on this subject.
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I was not trying to be argumentative. My point has always been that this is just a matter of time. Could happen by summer. Could take another decade. But it is happening,Catholic teachings or not.
 
White Catholic ? Love how ppl seem to have ot bring race into… everything. At any rate… the Catholic SHOULD be 100% AGAINST the facade that is gay marriage.
Havard said:
I’m a single 36 year old male from San Francisco. Everybody in my demo is pro gay marriage. In a similar vein, I literally do not know one person I didn’t meet specifically through Church channels who believes in waiting for marriage for sex or cohabiting. In fact, most single people I *have *met through Church channels don’t even wait until marriage.

I don’t see what the prevailing wisdom of my demographic matters when it comes to this. Polling popular opinion isn’t an intellectually sound way to arrive at Truth.
Click to expand...
 
epan said:
One of four possible outcomes is that every anti-gay marriage law or amendment could be struck down with one decision. Not the most likely outcome. But entirely possible.
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I am inclined to think that the Supremes will go for narrow decisions. DOMA can go as it is a Federal intrusion into states’ rights. Killing DOMA won’t have any effect on the laws in each individual state.

Proposition 8 will either be allowed to stand, and later be killed by a new vote in California, or it will be struck down on narrow grounds that only affect California, or perhaps just the states that already have civil unions.

$0.02

rossum
 
epan said:
I am not debating truth. I have never claimed to be in favor of gay marriage. I am saying that the political fight is over. That oral arguments will be happening on Wednesday on a topic which was unthinkable 20 years ago is evidence enough of that.

If anything, even someone like Scalia wants to go down in history as being on the correct side of historic social trends.
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I suspect you don’t understand Scalia very much. You’re talking about a man who not only dissented from the decision to force a school to become co-ed, but who was absolutely furious in writing his dissent.

What’s more, you say “the political fight is over”. But by your standards, the “political fight” was over - 20 years ago. Meanwhile in France, support for gay marriage seems to have dropped like a stone recently.

The fight is not over, and is never over. But gay marriage opponents have to learn from their mistakes, and learn from other’s successes.
 
Seeker1961 said:
Actually, heterosexual marriage is the basis of it all. If there were no heterosexual marriage, no 1138 benefits attached to marriage-there would be no call for gay marriage or any type of marriage at all.

So, since I guess the answer is to end marriage completely, and all married couples in the US should give up their benefits. That way nobody ever has to worry about any of the consequences of that slippery slope!

Problem solved!!

Have a nice day!
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I really don’t think that the alleged government benefits have much to do with it all. I think the movement is mainly spurred by a desire to have an aberrant lifestyle accepted by the majority, even if that requires legal force.
 
Epan
i don’t get it.
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That’s the problem.

Gay relationships would be funded through taxes which I pay. Not to mention government mandates that REQUIRE businesses to work with and pay people in such a manner as violates their consciences.

texasgopvote.com/comment/8273

bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?id=38581
f anything, even someone like Scalia wants to go down in history as being on the correct side of historic social trends.
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:rotfl:

You mean like those Roman orgies or the ancient Greek view on homosexuality?

How’d that work out for them?

Civilizations move in cyclical, not linear patterns.
 
I’m not sure why something as logically impossible as same sex marriage has come to be increasingly accepted, but I think it has something to do with most people’s libertarian leanings when it comes to personal matters.

If you want to marry someone of the opposite sex, that’s fine.
If you want to marry someone of the same sex, that’s okay too.
If a man wants to marry two—or more—women, go for it.
If a woman wants to marry two—or more—men, fine.
If an “open marriage” group of several men and several women wants to make the arrangement legal, no problem, let them all marry.
If we really want to have “marriage equality,” then any and all marriages should be equal.
 
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