Reputation of Catholic Church ‘in tatters’, says priest

[lemonbeam]

A Derry priest says the Catholic Church in Ireland has lost all moral authority after last week’s report revealed that senior leaders had covered up decades of child abuse.

Fr Michael Canny, spokesman for Derry Diocese said the reputation of the Church was “in tatters” and that all trust had gone.

The government-commissioned report found that the Church deliberately covered up abuse by 46 priests in order to save its own reputation. Instead of reporting the abuse, clergy suspected of abusing children were simply moved to different areas where they were then free to abuse more children.

“There is no good in saying other than the truth,” said Fr Michael Canny, according to the Irish Times. “The Church at this state has no credibility, no standing and no moral authority.”

He said he would now have to spend the rest of his life rebuilding trust in the Church following the scandal.

“The issue is now one of trust, and that is why it will take the rest of my lifetime as a priest to build up that trust again, because the trust and confidence in the Church has been broken on a fundamental level.”

He told the newspaper he was “angry” at the way the abuse had been handled, adding that he felt “betrayed and let down to a terrible extreme”.

At masses across Ireland today, congregations heard the reflections of senior clergy on the findings of the report.

Dr Donal Murray, Bishop of Limerick, is facing calls for his resignation after the report strongly criticised his handling of child abuse allegations while he was auxiliary bishop in Dublin. He told the congregation at St Joseph’s Church in Limerick today that whether he resigned or not would be “guided by the priests and people of the diocese”, reports the Irish Times.

A prepared statement by the Bishop of Down and Connor, Noel Traenor, was read out at all masses in the diocese, in which he expressed his “horror and distress” at the “heinous and appalling crimes against children”.

christiantoday.com/article/reputation.of.catholic.church.in.tatters.says.priest/24756.htm

 

[Lutheranteach]

christiantoday.com/article/reputation.of.catholic.church.in.tatters.says.priest/24756.htm

Just talking off the top of my head here, so bear with. Not bashing, but rather looking for opinion.

I have to admit, the Catholic Church, even though I am not a part of it always seemed a legit moral compass in many ways. When the sex abuse stories broke, it lost that with me. Not because it happened, but because of the cover up which seemed to be very well orchestrated in many cases and how the Church (again in some cases) seemed to do everything but admit what was clear etc. (or course there are also examples of the church stepping up and doing the right thing off the bat)

I was a little shocked that these stories did not send people leaving the Catholic Church in droves here in the U.S. Then I realized that many American Catholics don’t look to the Church for moral guidance but rather for a sense of continuity and community more than morality. That being the case, there was outrage to be sure, but the Catholic Church did not lose the moral high ground in the U.S. Why? Because it hasn’t been seen as “the moral voice,” but rather “a moral voice among several.” In Ireland, however, the CC is “THE moral voice” and is taking a beating in that department now, losing trust that many not be recovered for a generation or more.

 

[redrosetea]

I heard Fr Groeshel say in times like this the people apart from the victims are those who are trying their best to live out their vocations

Satan never works harder than he does in every church trying to get people to sin and to look the other way

The church is still a moral compass, despite these people involved in this sinful situation, and now we will all have to carry our crosses, and pray as the church tried to rebuild ,and it will

The Holy Spirit is still with us, leading us forward

Lets not throw out the baby with the bathwater,and tar everyone because of the sins of some

 

[kimmielittle]

[christiantoday.com/article/reputation.of.catholic.church.in.tatters.says.priest/24756.htm ](http://www.christiantoday.com/article/reputation.of.catholic.church.in.tatters.says.priest/24756.htm)

Fr Michael Canny, spokesman for Derry Diocese said the reputation of the Church was “in tatters” and that all trust had gone.

I disagree, with the above good Father. It’s the reputations of the Bishops being questioned. Place the blame where it belongs.

To misdirect… is not helping

 

[George14]

I have often used the allegory that “If the President of the United States were to commit murder, that would not make me want to throw out the Constitution or the Bill of Rights.”

Our family has a lot of sinners who need our prayers: some very very big time.

Include me in: I am deeply aware of how easy it is to live in denial, and it scares me that I am susceptible to that.

Perhaps praying for others will help me to merit the help I need in that area.

 

[kimmielittle]

Just talking off the top of my head here, so bear with. Not bashing, but rather looking for opinion.

I have to admit, the Catholic Church, even though I am not a part of it always seemed a legit moral compass in many ways. When the sex abuse stories broke, it lost that with me. Not because it happened, but because of the cover up which seemed to be very well orchestrated in many cases and how the Church (again in some cases) seemed to do everything but admit what was clear etc. (or course there are also examples of the church stepping up and doing the right thing off the bat)

I was a little shocked that these stories did not send people leaving the Catholic Church in droves here in the U.S. Then I realized that many American Catholics don’t look to the Church for moral guidance but rather for a sense of continuity and community more than morality. That being the case, there was outrage to be sure, but the Catholic Church did not lose the moral high ground in the U.S. Why? Because it hasn’t been seen as “the moral voice,” but rather “a moral voice among several.” In Ireland, however, the CC is “THE moral voice” and is taking a beating in that department now, losing trust that many not be recovered for a generation or more.

emphasis mine

Hiyas

It wasn’t Jesus who committed these crimes. Why oh why… would I turn my soul from God because of individual pervs?

Please don’t judge Catholics with wannabes or cafeterias.

I hope this helps

 

[johns58w]

emphasis mine

Hiyas

It wasn’t Jesus who committed these crimes. Why oh why… would I turn my soul from God because of individual pervs?

Please don’t judge Catholics with wannabes or cafeterias.

I hope this helps

Very true. It’s amazing where outside the Catholic Church many pick up their stones to assault the Catholic church but yet can’t look upon themselves of any fault or imperfection in their own lives. It is a horror what has happened through the years of the clergy scandal but you know what? The Catholic church has been dealing with these problems since the beginning of the Church age. In the Old Testament, the history about Israel’s people, it’s highest of holiness to it’s most evil against God. The people of the Catholic Church also has and will be like Israel with it’s highest of holiness and to it’s most evil against God. This will keep going until Jesus’ second coming. The Catholic Church through Jesus Christ is perfect. It is man that is fallabe, sinful and imperfect. For example the “Borgia Popes” in the rennaisance periods up to the Protestant Reformation. Alexander VI himself had children through adulterous behavior. But he never said or approved this behavior even in ex cathedra. No pope has ever taught in error in faith and morals even though they may not lived or acted perfectly in their own faith and morals.
It is saddening what has been going on about the clergy scandal. Yes confession and forgiveness is commanded by Jesus Christ. Justice through the authorities is righteousness to those who have tormented the youth and justice in truth needs to be served. I am so sorry for the Catholic families and friends who have suffered through this horror. If I had a relative that was victim to this horror I could not measure the pain and suffering and damage that was cased by this. The question on why Catholics are not running away in droves is because their are many Catholic religious and lay faithful that are stronger in their faith today than 20-40 years ago because they are steadfast. The admit to their imperfections and sinfulness to Jesus Christ. Although a small number, I have seen a few with amazement about their faith that would kick a “crack theologian” out of thier own schools. I have seen the few who attend Mass and receive Holy Communion daily,pray daily,visit the Blessed Sacrament for Adoration and Benediction, attend Sacrament of Reconciliation on a regular basis.
As far as legal reparations and the people that have received exhorbitant amounts of money by suing the dioceses abroad, this will not resolve the issue at hand. Large amounts of money will only lead to greater evils of greed,pride and other sins to their own devices instead of bringing the scandals to the foot of the cross of Jesus Christ for forgiveness of those who trespass against us. The Catholic Church will survive as Jesus promised to St. Peter “the gates of hell will not prevail against it” and still has been proven for 2000 years.

 

[thealtonroute]

The abuse scandals in Ireland are the result of what happens when an authoritarian institution is given free reign with zero oversight. Eamon Devalera handed over way too much power to the Catholic Church. It’s one thing to govern in accordance with Catholic principles but completely another to defer completely to the Catholic Church in matters where the state should have control.

Of course the credibility of the Catholic Church in Ireland is pretty much destroyed at least for the near future. It’ll take a lot of hard work to bring back any respect for the Church. It’s a sad ending for an institution that played such a major role in the development of the Irish state. But then again it’s hard to have much sympathy for the Irish Church that allowed such horrible abuse to go on for decades. Hopefully Polish immigrants in Ireland can rebuild the mess of a Church the Irish hierarchy made.

 

[everblooming]

emphasis mine

Hiyas

It wasn’t Jesus who committed these crimes. Why oh why… would I turn my soul from God because of individual pervs?

Please don’t judge Catholics with wannabes or cafeterias.

I hope this helps

Our Church is a catalyst to God. The Church is not God and the Church is not Jesus. Don’t make the mistake of thinking that people who are leaving the Catholic Church because of this are leaving God. Based on what you wrote it looks like you are advising people to judge wannabes and cafeterias, but not “Catholics”. Not judging our priests and bishops is what got us into this mess. We need to take our church back and hold our church leaders accountable.

 

[JReducation]

I have no problems with the concerns. I do have a concern of my own. When people who do not have authority make statements about “retaking over their church and holding their leaders accountable” it makes it sound as if we have authority over the bishops, which is not true. Therefore, we cannot retake anything. Because without a bishop, we are not Catholic, regardless of what we think.

Our Catholicism does not flow from our faith, but from our apostolic succession, which comes only through our bishops. Therefore, the only ones who can take hold of the Church are those who are already in power, other bishops and the pope. They are the only ones who have valid apostolic succession. The laity does not have such succession. Therefore, the laity has not authority to claim to take control of “their church”. That’s very Protestant language where the laity are in control, because they deny apostolic succession and the validity of Holy Orders and ordination.

We, as Catholics, believe that our Church exists only because the bishops exist. We who are not bishops, have no authority in this line of succession. We have a right to communnicate our concerns to those who can take over the Church from our bishops, other bishops, not us.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[kimmielittle]

Our Church is a catalyst to God. The Church is not God and the Church is not Jesus. Don’t make the mistake of thinking that people who are leaving the Catholic Church because of this are leaving God. Based on what you wrote it looks like you are advising people to judge wannabes and cafeterias, but not “Catholics”. Not judging our priests and bishops is what got us into this mess. ** We need to take our church back** and hold our church leaders accountable.

Hiyas
The Catholic Church has never left. People who did perverted stuff did. 'No one forces anyone to be Catholic" as Bishop Tobis said. 'The Teachings have always been there, If one chooses to ignore / leave those teaching…they are accountable" kimmie phrased ].

I do not doubt…They will be held accountable

As always, just my thoughts

 

[everblooming]

Kimmie, you need to reread my post. I never said I was an Athiest. Remember that bearing false witness is against the Ten Commandments. And name calling isn’t Christ-like. .

 

[kimmielittle]

Kimmie, you need to reread my post. I never said I was an Athiest. Rember that bearing false witness is against the Ten Commandments. And name calling has never been the way to win a debate.

Hiyas

I’m soooo sorry that you saw my ** signature ** as name calling.

It is meant to call to mind…only.

It is on ALL my posts

 

[everblooming]

AAAAhhhhh . . . I see I’m glad you weren’t calling me an Athiest.

 

[everblooming]

Hiyas

I’m soooo sorry that you saw my ** signature ** as name calling.

It is meant to call to mind…only.

It is on ALL my posts

I see that I misunderstood. Thanks for clarifying. I’m glad you weren’t excluding me. As a liberal social worker I sometimes feel that my point of view isn’t appreciated by the Catholics who are still in our Church today.

 

[joannazenobia]

Abuse to children is not a Catholic problem, it is a society problem. This evil is the result of societies degrading morals that have spilled over into our church. We as a society have become complacent. It’s a sickening problem, that even among healthcare workers who are supposed to work well as a team, I admit I see it in my own hospital, “Not my patient not my problem”.

Everyone of us turns a blind eye whenever we see children suffering. Even with this situation in Ireland, there is still considerably much more evil being committed to children in the world outside of the church than within if you add up the trafficking, child-soldiers, abortion, infantcide, kidnapping, child-labor, etc.This is a media trick. You blow up a scandal in a little country like Ireland to get your “eye off the ball” from the real story that the news people and politicians do not want you to read. Like the multitude of other problems the rest of the world is facing, like global economy, nuclear weapons race, the growing gap between the poor and rich, etc.

This evil has lingered for a long time like a cancer in our communities and has infiltrated our church walls so much stronger then ever before.

With all due respect, I believe that media is the real evil because look at all the hate it spurs whenever a story like this breaks out. SO many people fall into this “Shock and awe” trap and so many are easily brainwashed by the media, instead of searching for the truth in their own hearts. You don’t have to be a Catholic or understand the Catechism to have compassion these days do you? Love your enemy? We preach it but how many of us if we searched our heart truly practice it? People don’t know how to search their heart for answers or search their heart for the evil that lingers. That’s because we created this media monster to tell the truth for us.

I gotta hand it to our Catholic church though, we DID eventually come out and admit our sins to the whole world. I have yet to see an official word from non- catholic churches and non catholic-faiths and the abuse that is going on behind their closed doors. Why don’t we all get together and work together to abolish all child abuse instead of pointing fingers at each other?

So I believe with all my heart that as imperfect and sinner I am, and have no right for Christ love or mercy, his light of truth continues to be my guide and I see nothing but a situation that needs the intervention of love from everyone especially us Catholics to stand up for Ireland to heal wounds. I believe that Christ comes to us in our darkest hour to save us and that Jesus has his sleeves rolled up and is hard at work in Ireland and I will pray for everyone, the children, the clergy and our church and for my Polish people there to be the “hands of Christ” to re-build the church.

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

I was a little shocked that these stories did not send people leaving the Catholic Church in droves here in the U.S. Then I realized that many American Catholics don’t look to the Church for moral guidance but rather for a sense of continuity and community more than morality. That being the case, there was outrage to be sure, but the Catholic Church did not lose the moral high ground in the U.S. Why? Because it hasn’t been seen as “the moral voice,” but rather “a moral voice among several.” In Ireland, however, the CC is “THE moral voice” and is taking a beating in that department now, losing trust that many not be recovered for a generation or more.

The Church is the moral guidance for all because it is the Bride of Christ and is authorized to do so. If one is more interested in friends at Church than in what the Church stands for, then you have the same problem as those who protected criminals because of who the criminals were instead of the truth of what was done, which requires reparation and atoning justice.

The moral ground is intact in the Church as that which was done is not what the Church teaches. This problem was not institutional but personal. Whoever moved priests around did it in opposition to any correct understanding of justice, reparation, or atonement. One represents the Church only in accurately performing in union with Christ and His Church, thus an act contrary to this in any situation, such as liturgy, prayer, theology, and regulating secular affairs of those associated with the Church, must be in line with truth, Truth is not an idea, Truth is a Person, Jesus. All things… individuals, government, communities, words, actions, etc, will be judged according to their union with Jesus, and the Church, not always those who work in it, has always pointed to this and continues to do so in spite of what events occur .

 

[Yellow_Belle]

Abuse to children is not a Catholic problem, it is a society problem.

Aren’t we Catholics supposed to be ‘in the world’, but not ‘of the world’? We are supposed to be the ‘leaven’ so shouldn’t we be holding ourselves to an even higher standard than ‘society’?

This is a media trick. You blow up a scandal in a little country like Ireland to get your “eye off the ball” from the real story that the news people and politicians do not want you to read…With all due respect, I believe that media is the real evil because look at all the hate it spurs whenever a story like this breaks out…

So, shoot the big, bad media messenger and everything will be ok and we can can all get on with things because an inconvenient but essentially overblown ‘scandal in a little country like Ireland’ has no real significance or fall-out for the universal Church?

I gotta hand it to our Catholic church though, we DID eventually come out and admit our sins to the whole world.

Voluntarily?? So all these court-cases, lawsuits and judicial reviews across the world were just the Church’s way of making a general confession?

I believe that Christ comes to us in our darkest hour to save us and that Jesus has his sleeves rolled up and is hard at work in Ireland and I will pray for everyone, the children, the clergy and our church and for my Polish people there to be the “hands of Christ” to re-build the church.

The number of Poles in Ireland is plummeting. According to a report in January 2009 in the*Sunday Tribune*:

An estimated 3,000 Polish nationals are leaving Ireland every month, with most returning to their native country to find more secure employment, a spokesman for the Polish embassy in Dublin told the Sunday Tribune last week.

Dr Jacek Rosa, deputy head of mission at the Polish embassy, also noted the number of Poles coming over to find work in Ireland plummeted by over 50% in 2008 and is likely to drop even further in the year ahead.

“Official figures of personal public service number applications [a firm indication of people looking for work] showed that 88,000 Poles were allocated PPS numbers in 2007. But this dropped to 42,000 in 2008,” said Rosa.

Moreover, because of language difficulties, many, if not most Poles in Ireland have been served by separate Masses (in Polish) and clergy and have not integrated into Irish parishes or Irish parish life. It is unlikely that their presence would have any significant effect on Catholicism in Ireland.

 

[everblooming]

I have no problems with the concerns. I do have a concern of my own. When people who do not have authority make statements about “retaking over their church and holding their leaders accountable” it makes it sound as if we have authority over the bishops, which is not true. Therefore, we cannot retake anything. Because without a bishop, we are not Catholic, regardless of what we think.

Our Catholicism does not flow from our faith, but from our apostolic succession, which comes only through our bishops. Therefore, the only ones who can take hold of the Church are those who are already in power, other bishops and the pope. They are the only ones who have valid apostolic succession. The laity does not have such succession. Therefore, the laity has not authority to claim to take control of “their church”. That’s very Protestant language where the laity are in control, because they deny apostolic succession and the validity of Holy Orders and ordination.

We, as Catholics, believe that our Church exists only because the bishops exist. We who are not bishops, have no authority in this line of succession. We have a right to communnicate our concerns to those who can take over the Church from our bishops, other bishops, not us.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Father, I just saw your message. Since I doubt anything I could say in my own words would have much value to you, I am going to quote:

Jesus from the Bible,
"If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
- Bible, I John (ch. I, v. 6-7)

And I’m quoting Joseph Joubert,
“Every legitimate authority should respect its extent and its limits”

It is too bad that the Catholic leaders didn’t do the right thing when they learned about the abuse. Maybe then the authority you wrote about could still be maintained. In my opinion, the only way the Catholic Church is going to make it is if the Church leaders stop keeping secrets and allow more oversight from the church members. Unfortunately we have already lost a lot of members.

Amy

 

[rep140]

Therefore, we cannot retake anything. Because without a bishop, we are not Catholic, regardless of what we think.

Amen! There are so many on this site who see themselves as the link to the true Church and not the bishops. I was very disappointed in the actions of bishops who shuffled priests
and in some of the clergy that JP2 respected. I’ve become a B16 fan.

However, I believe that when it comes to its actions and theology, the Catholic Church is the barque that leaks least. If someone leaves the Church because of the actions of a bishop then they probably had already left in spirit.