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MidnightSun12
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I truly feel sorry for any gay teen growing up in our society today. I can’t think of any person in our society that is being more neglected to the ravages of Satan and evil with no helping hand to offer support then a young gay teen is.
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EmperorNapoleon
Guest
Dr. Spitzer just made a mistake and, unfortunately, was unwilling to admit it. I’m glad that he has finally acknowledged it. Perhaps he will use this as a learning experience and consider some real scientific work on the subject.
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Scott_Lafrance
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Ya, maybe, maybe like Alfred Kinsey.
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EmperorNapoleon
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I was thinking more like a follow-up on his own work. The problem with his study was that he tried to base a scientific conclusion on nothing but phone surveys. There were no controlled conditions or any scientific testing or verification. His surveys might be useful to form a hypothesis but thats about it. Fortunately medical science has come a long way since Alfred Kinsey and FMRI testing would prove, one way or the other, whether sexual orientation can be changed.Ya, maybe, maybe like Alfred Kinsey.
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Fiasco
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Our idiot, zero IQ society is against him!
And political correctness will make sure that any findings which show sexual orientation can be changed will be quietly “euthanased” and buried in an unmarked grave.
The loudmouthed practising “gays” aren
t interested in change of orientation. Their spiritual director of course isnt.
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wisecath
Guest
Emperor Napoleon, while I won’t disagree that repair therapy to treat gayims/lesbianism often fails, so does repair therapy to treat drug junkyism & you know my view that gay/lesbian activities by adults is comparable to crack junkyism. But just because repair therapy often fails, that doesn’t mean we don’t offer it. We look for more advanced ways. With Dr. RL Spitzer, he admitted in 2001 that his conclusions were anecdotal. There weren’t any replicated studies & it’s hard to get neutral study as mainstream psychology is hostile to repair therapy. What I must wonder is Dr. RL Spitzer in his apology saying what he believes or is he saying it because he got harassed by gay/lesbian groups & now apologises
It’s odd that it took him 11 years to admit he made a mistake but only he knows what he thinks. Anyhow, I believe repair therapy to treat gayism/lesbianism will often fail, but that doesn’t change the fact that we must keep perfecting repair therapy until we find the 100% cure for homosexuality/lesbianism just as we keep perfecting repair therapy to treat drug junkyism. Just because a therapy fails, that doesn’t stop us from working to perfect this. We don’t stop treating eating disorders, drug junkyism & drunkardism because repair therapy to treat these often fails-we look for more advanced ways to treat.
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wisecath
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Drug junkyism repair therapy as told by me has high failures, but we don’t reject it because it fails alot of the time. How many people take up gay/lesbian conduct because of sex abuse, especially homosexual rape in youth How many of the people who said they changed to straight sexuality were homosexually raped in youth Why 1 takes part in gay/lesbian conduct is same as why 1 gets cancer. Some get cancer because they eat poorly, are exposed to carcinogens & then some get cancer because of bad genes. Any thoughts, because if gay/lesbian sexual conduct for some is inborn (though they haven’t conclusively proved it’s inborn), then it would be a birth defect.
How many of the people who said they changed to straight sexuality were homosexually raped in youth Why 1 takes part in gay/lesbian conduct is same as why 1 gets cancer. Some get cancer because they eat poorly, are exposed to carcinogens & then some get cancer because of bad genes. Any thoughts, because if gay/lesbian sexual conduct for some is inborn (though they haven’t conclusively proved it’s inborn), then it would be a birth defect.
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Dale_M
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He was a guest today on NPR’s program* Talk of the Nation*. He said he had been bothered for several years with how the study has been misinterpreted and used. What seems to have finally pushed him into action was a visit by a journalist, Gabriel Azana, who had spent 3.5 years in reparative therapy.What I must wonder is Dr. RL Spitzer in his apology saying what he believes or is he saying it because he got harassed by gay/lesbian groups & now apologises
Here is a portion of the interview:
npr.org/2012/05/21/153213796/spitzers-apology-changes-ex-gay-debate
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Captain_America
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The whole homosexuality issue is fraught with difficulty and pain for the researcher.
Despite the millions spent on studying around the subject, we still don’t know much about the subject ITSELF. . . even as huge social engineering is underway!
Kind of putting the horse in front of the scientific cart. But the scientific community sees all the hot hatreds and animosities (largely generated by the sodomites) and shies away from wanting to get involved and actually study the subject.
So instead, we get bare assertions instead of facts.
Oh. And despite tens of millions spent on condoms and “education”, the AIDS cases continue unabated. So much for believing homosexuality is not a disorder: frankly, let’s admit it: it’s a perversion, it’s a radical and narcissistic sex addiction.
Despite the millions spent on studying around the subject, we still don’t know much about the subject ITSELF. . . even as huge social engineering is underway!
Kind of putting the horse in front of the scientific cart. But the scientific community sees all the hot hatreds and animosities (largely generated by the sodomites) and shies away from wanting to get involved and actually study the subject.
So instead, we get bare assertions instead of facts.
Oh. And despite tens of millions spent on condoms and “education”, the AIDS cases continue unabated. So much for believing homosexuality is not a disorder: frankly, let’s admit it: it’s a perversion, it’s a radical and narcissistic sex addiction.
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Captain_America
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And I think one can make these assertions WITHOUT implying that one has any kind of fear of homosexuals, or any desire to make their lives less pleasant.
I’ve had friends with eating disorders: saying they had such disorders did not carry with it animosity.
I’ve had friends with eating disorders: saying they had such disorders did not carry with it animosity.
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exnihilo
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Doesn’t that make every study based on human testimony, which is all psychology studies, worthless? The issue I would have is the different standard applied depending on the subject e.g. the ever present danger of relativism.
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SamH
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I feel sorry for any teen growing up in our society today.
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SamH
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Is he sorry that he did the study? Is he sorry about what the study found? Is he admitting he conducted the study incorrectly? Or is it a blanket apology because that’s what you do when gay people claim you wronged them?
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MacBP
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I’ve always been slightly perplexed by the hostility towards studying attempts to change sexual orientation. I suppose that members of the GLBT community are afraid that if such research were to be found useful then certain communities would force their GLBTmembers to undergo treatment. This, admittedly, is a legitimate concern. With that said I foresee that many communities would force this treatment would already have draconian measures in place for the GLBT community (think Iran).
With that said, unless researchers are permitted to study every aspect of homosexuality (not just those which confirm the beliefs of the GLBT study) it is unlikely that we’ll ever gain a complete picture of what homosexuality is. That would include reparative therapy. If the GLBT community is correct and reparative therapy doesn’t work than they should be eager to study the issue to put the matter to rest. If they are wrong, wouldn’t it be a nice option?
Would a member of the GLBT community, or someone sympathetic, enlighten me?
With that said, unless researchers are permitted to study every aspect of homosexuality (not just those which confirm the beliefs of the GLBT study) it is unlikely that we’ll ever gain a complete picture of what homosexuality is. That would include reparative therapy. If the GLBT community is correct and reparative therapy doesn’t work than they should be eager to study the issue to put the matter to rest. If they are wrong, wouldn’t it be a nice option?
Would a member of the GLBT community, or someone sympathetic, enlighten me?
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empacae
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Use to be that 40 some years ago homosexuality was a mental disorder. And I think that it could be in my observations (although I know I know, there are some great gay people in our society). But if a mental health professional were to explore that premise further it would be career suicide in today’s climate.
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EmperorNapoleon
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Absolutley. You are correct that we find this line of research threatening and profoundly dangerous. Read some the recent articles in the news about pastors telling their congregations that parents should ‘beat the gay out’ of their children or that gays should be marched into concentration camps and left to die. There are elements in our society which are extremely hostile and would not hesitate to force people into undergoing some such procedure or “therapy.” Something similar to the eugenics programs of the United States and Nazi Germany come to mind. There are serious moral questions that are introduced if it is ever proven that sexual orientation can be changed.
That said, we already know that the current “therapy” doesn’t work and every association of medical professionals opposes it. FMRI testing could be performed on self-proclaimed “ex-gays”, and I wouldn’t be opposed to such a study, but the reality is that there are too few of them to provide an adequate sample size and many of the alleged success stories are heavily padded with bisexuals.
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Havard
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Can you flesh this last bit out please? Your comment makes it sound like bisexuals can just stop being bisexual, that they can somehow “get rid of” their attraction to individuals of the same sex.
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EmperorNapoleon
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Ah, that wasn’t my intent. The point I was making is that a large number of bisexuals are often lumped in with the homosexual subjects in studies attempting to prove that conversion “therapy” works. This weights the scales since the primary standard used to gage the effectiveness of this “therapy” is whether or not the subjects reported having sexual relations with the opposite sex following the conclusion of “treatment.” And, of course, a rational person knows that this doesn’t say anything about the effectiveness of the “treatment” since they were already sexually attracted to the opposite sex.
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BernardM
Guest
Translation:
Any research showing the opposite of what a lobbying group wants will be claimed to be to small a group ( ironic considering any samples would be tainted by the fact that there is no way to get an accurate gay baseline) or that any sample is contaminated with people who are not “gay” enough.
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