Responding to pro-choicers’ views on abortion

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Sbee0 said:
Anyone informed about Christianity would not be wearing the red costumes. Nor even think that the story has anything to do with real life Christians and pro lifers. It’s Christianophobia, period.
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It isn’t Christianophobia. Not even a tiny bit. The antagonists in The Handmaid’s Tale cherry-pick the parts of the Bible and Christianity that will justify their oppressive regime. They kill priests, they send nuns to the colonies because they are unwomen. Gilead isn’t Christian at it’s core.

You’re right that they will kill abortionists and maybe a woman who has had one unless there is a chance she’s fertile. That’s why they dress like handmaids. There are those who want women to be punished as criminals for having a miscarriage, or hanged for having an abortion. You see a contradiction because you don’t understand the story.
 
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Bruised_Reed said:
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Sbee0:
Anyone informed about Christianity would not be wearing the red costumes. Nor even think that the story has anything to do with real life Christians and pro lifers. It’s Christianophobia, period.
Click to expand...
It isn’t Christianophobia. Not even a tiny bit. The antagonists in The Handmaid’s Tale cherry-pick the parts of the Bible and Christianity that will justify their oppressive regime. They kill priests, they send nuns to the colonies because they are unwomen. Gilead isn’t Christian at it’s core.

You’re right that they will kill abortionists and maybe a woman who has had one unless there is a chance she’s fertile. That’s why they dress like handmaids. There are those who want women to be punished as criminals for having a miscarriage, or hanged for having an abortion. You see a contradiction because you don’t understand the story.
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Actually Atwood herself said she modeled the oppression in Gilead on many of the things happening in Iran post revolution.

And I get that (I watch the show and saw the movie) but again I’m not talking about the story. The story itself is not Christanophobic it’s wearing the costumes to connect pro lifers and actual Christianity to Gilead that is. Look at YouTube comments in clips of the show- it’s widespread among the cultural left. The derision of politicians for their outward Christian beliefs is out there.

When pro lifers and Christians really do start calling for hanging of those getting abortions, executions of LGTBQ people for being themselves, executions for adultery or fornication, state sanctioned rape, firing of all women from their jobs, cutting off fingers and plucking out eyes of women for daring to read, classifying people to give them rights, male supremacy etc like they are in Gilead then I will take what the Christianophobes have to say seriously. Not before.
 
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“Sbee0 said:
The story itself is not Christanophobic it’s wearing the costumes to connect pro lifers and actual Christianity to Gilead that is.
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You see that. I dont. I don’t know those people in costume but I know people like them. And read comments, too.
Sbee0 said:
for hanging of those getting abortions, executions of LGTBQ people for being themselves, executions for adultery or fornication, state sanctioned rape, firing of all women from their jobs, […]
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They are legit scared of that. The protagonists ignore the slow stripping of rights (that had nothing to do with abortion.) Factor in people who want women hanged or who want to control what adult women do regarding jobs and education and it makes it’s way into the Catholic sphere, well I find that scary. The number of extremists is small but there are some weird overlaps (usually around race and nationalism for some reason.) It’s very real.
 
Bruised_Reed said:
Factor in people who want women hanged or who want to control what adult women do regarding jobs and education and it makes it’s way into the Catholic sphere, well I find that scary.
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That’s not a thing. The few individuals who would support such wouldn’t have much of a backing.
 
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It is a thing. Very much current thing in certain cultures and a growing thing in places I wouldn’t have expected. I will mention one though I loathe giving it clicks. Google Fix the Family. I’ll throw in another: CI forum. If you can’t figure it out, oh well.

Like I said there is overlap. I’ve seen trad catholic accounts following anti-feminist white nationalist accounts because “feminism is bad” but the ideology bleeds over.
 
Posts from families in serious crisis and those with harsh, shaming parenting approaches.
 
What exactly am I looking for again?
 
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Haven’t seen that, oh well. Maybe in the family life subforum, since I forget to check that out.
 
Bruised_Reed said:
It is a thing. Very much current thing in certain cultures and a growing thing in places I wouldn’t have expected. I will mention one though I loathe giving it clicks. Google Fix the Family. I’ll throw in another: CI forum. If you can’t figure it out, oh well.

Like I said there is overlap. I’ve seen trad catholic accounts following anti-feminist white nationalist accounts because “feminism is bad” but the ideology bleeds over.
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I don’t know what CI forum is but I have heard of fix the family. It is nothing resembling mainstream in Catholic thought and like fundies it takes scripture and interprets it as it sees fit This group consists of 2 families with 16 kids and a blog and they pretend to speak for the faith when in reality the church has no connection to this group. Not really what I’d call a “growing” presence nor one to be taken seriously.
 
I want to avoid giving clicks to sites that are bad, not do I want to make it easy for others to discover them. Both have been referenced on CAF; there was a thread on the former and the latter others have mentioned in the same way, not wishing to give that site anymore traffic.

If you can’t find them it’s for the best anyway.
 
They are one group that had been mentioned on CAF so I’m not introducing anything new. But there are others that subscribe to the same beliefs.
 
My response when the topic of abortion comes up

“We probably don’t want to talk about this”
 
Bruised_Reed said:
They are one group that had been mentioned on CAF so I’m not introducing anything new. But there are others that subscribe to the same beliefs.
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I take them as seriously with respect to Catholicism as I do the Dimond dudes who have a cult based on the belief that Pope Francis is not the legit pope- that the “real” Pope after Vatican2 now lives in Kansas today. In other words, not very much.

The self-interpretation of scripture is a tell that this is not really a catholic group even if they claim to be one.
 
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Pro-Life Quiz

Assumption: If you are pro-life, you believe that a human being is created at the moment of conception, and that human being has all the religious, moral, and legal rights of any other human being. (Any reference to “human being” in the following refers back to this definition.)

True or False?

Almost all scientists in the field (biology, genetics, etc.) agree that a human being is created at the moment of conception.

From the moment of conception, a new individual with its own unique DNA is created.

For a fetus to be viable, it must attach itself to the wall of the womb within a week or so of conception. About 10% do not attach automatically and these become “natural” abortions.

Republicans have always been consistent in their opposition to abortion. (I.e., in late 2018 59% of Republicans polled said abortion “should be illegal in all or most cases.” In the past, this percentage has been roughly the same or higher.)

Every year since 1976 Gallup has asked “Do you think abortions should be legal under any circumstances, legal only under certain circumstances, or illegal in all circumstances?”

The percent favoring “illegal in all circumstances” have increased between 1976 and 2018 by 7%.

Which of the following world religions agree with the pro-life definition of human life?

Judaism

Islam

Buddhism

Hinduism

Confucianism

Which of these other forms of Christianity agree with the pro-life definition of human life?

Anglican

Episcopal

Evangelical Lutheran

Methodist

Presbyterian

Quakers

Latter-Day Saints (Mormons)

All the doctors of the Church, especially major figures such as Saints Augustine and Aquinas, have agreed with the current doctrine of the Church on abortion (i.e., human life begins at conception, and any abortion = murder).

No pope has publicly disagreed with the current doctrine of the Church on abortion.

Canon law has always consistently upheld the current doctrine of the Church on abortion.

A woman should be responsible if she has an abortion. If abortion is murder, she should be charged with murder and subject to “some form of punishment.”

Logically, if you believe a human person is created at conception, it should have all the rights and privileges of any other human being. So do you agree with the following:
  1. Embryos at any stage of development are human beings. As such, they have human souls. Those embryos who are naturally aborted (for example, they do not attach to the wall of the womb), should be given funeral Masses and burials, just like any other human being.
  2. Child support should begin at conception, not at birth.
  3. Pregnant mothers should not be imprisoned for any reason, since that would be inflicting a punishment on the unborn child, who is innocent. It is illegal to imprison an unborn child without due process.
  4. Pregnant mothers should not be deported if their child was conceived in the US, since that unborn child is a US citizen.
  5. For federal income tax purposes, you should be able to claim an unborn child as a deduction, just like any other child.
  6. The census should count unborn embryos, since they are legally equivalent to any other child.
 
Bonus question:

What are the following policies:
  1. Pay parents $6,400 a year for each child under six, and $5,400 for each child aged 6-17, tax free.
  2. Either the mother or the father can take up to 35 weeks of paid leave after the birth of a child. The mother or father can share the leave any way they choose. Benefits = 55% of the parents’ average wage, up to a maximum of $562/week.
  3. All pre-natal and pediatric health care is free.
  4. Parents with lower incomes are entitled to free child care/pre-school care.
So what are the above policies?

a) part of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s “Green New Deal”

b) part of Bernie Sanders’s platform

c) recommendations by the US Conference of Catholic Bishops

d) laws that have been in effect for many years in Canada
 
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But they are out there and vocal and misleading others and, again, there is crossover with other far-right groups and individuals. They are happy to mingle and the less discerning Catholic-types.
 
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