Resurrected Christ Crucifixes

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Madaglan said:
What do you, as Easterners, think of the Resurrection crucifixes that are sometimes used in place of the traditional Latin crucifix of the suffering Christ? Do you think this a positive change with the Latin Church focusing more on the Resurrection? Or, is this a departure from the Latin tradition and therefore not a positive development?
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I’m not an Eastern Catholic, but I figured I’d give my two cents anyways. 😃

I, personally, dislike the so-called “Resurrection crucifixes”. I especially dislike them when they are used in place of the traditional crucifix above the altar. I think it takes away from what we are supposed to focus on at the Mass and when we receive the Eucharist, which is the sacrifice of Christ, not his Resurrection.

That said, if someone would rather have a Resurrection “crucifix” as a devotional tool, then that’s perfectly fine! However, I, personally, would not want one.
 
Actually, the Resurrection Crosses are an entirely Latin Catholic phenomenon - we don’t have them (thanks be to God . . .) and they are entirely out of our EC tradition in so many ways.

I don’t know why this topic is here in the Eastern Catholicism section at all!

Alex
 
TheRealJuliane said:
:eek::eek::eek::eek:

Sheesh. That may be a representation of the Resurrection but it’s not a crucifix. No no no no!!!
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Just relax the person posting the picture did not realize that he put a link to the URL of the Jewish Beach Volley Ball championship. When the poster will correct the URL we will see the real picture.
 
TheRealJuliane said:
:eek::eek::eek::eek:

Sheesh. That may be a representation of the Resurrection but it’s not a crucifix. No no no no!!!
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Definitely not crucifixes. Just like how we don’t term those crosses with nativity scenes on them “nativity crucifixes”. It doesn’t make sense. If the Corpus isn’t crucified on it, it’s not a crucifix.

In fact, I don’t think the middle one is even a representation of the Resurrection? :confused:
 
Cristiano said:
Just relax the person posting the picture did not realize that he put a link to the URL of the Jewish Beach Volley Ball championship. When the poster will correct the URL we will see the real picture.
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh my gosh… I nearly wet myself when I read this! 😃
 
Aramis said:
that’s very much a Latin view.

The Byzantin emphasis is on the resurrection… the sure sign that the sacrifice had value.
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Agreed. St. Paul: “If Christ is not raised from the dead, then your faith is in vain and you are still in your sins.”
 
Alexander_Roman said:
I also am not particular about modern Western forms of religious art that show Jesus as any human being. Iconography - which you have in the West as well - is about teaching the truth of the faith, and in Christ’s case, that He is both God and Man etc.
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Where do you have Western iconography? The closest I’ve seen have been Greek icons used by Polish Roman Catholics - the Theotokos of the Passion, or Our Lady of Perpetual Help - and some pictures published by the “Monastery Icons” company which were written by “monks” of the Gnostic Orthodox Church but which appear to be Roman Catholic. Blessed Fra Angelico’s religious art can’t be considered iconography unless there is a label on the painting.
 
Cecilianus said:
Where do you have Western iconography? The closest I’ve seen have been Greek icons used by Polish Roman Catholics - the Theotokos of the Passion, or Our Lady of Perpetual Help - and some pictures published by the “Monastery Icons” company which were written by “monks” of the Gnostic Orthodox Church but which appear to be Roman Catholic. Blessed Fra Angelico’s religious art can’t be considered iconography unless there is a label on the painting.
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And why is that?
 
Dear Eastern brethren,
"Alexander Roman:
And I couldn’t disagree more with this characterization . . . It is perhaps that of some you may have come across, but it is not the praxis of the Eastern Catholic Churches.
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josephdaniel29 said:
In all seriousness, what Gurney portrays is a bit of a caricature of Eastern spirituality. Of course he can’t be blamed because he only knows what he has read. You can’t really begin to understand it until you have lived and experienced it.
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Thank you for this. I feel these are very fair comments. I, as an Oriental, am closer in sympathy to brother Gurney’s position, and have myself come across Easterns who very much look down upon any mention of the Justice of God.

I think your presentations give us Latins and Orientals a more balanced picture of your position.

Thank you, once again.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
I’m glad you’ve never caricatured Catholicism, brother Joseph 😉 Likewise, it is not something you’ve truly experienced or fully understand IMO either…

This is a thin argument. One cannot understand something unless one has experienced it? That has scary connotations indeed!
josephdaniel29 said:
That might be a little intense for someone with no experience with Byzantine Christianity. 😉

In all seriousness, what Gurney portrays is a bit of a caricature of Eastern spirituality. Of course he can’t be blamed because he only knows what he has read. You can’t really begin to understand it until you have lived and experienced it.

.
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gurneyhalleck1 said:
I’m glad you’ve never caricatured Catholicism, brother Joseph 😉 Likewise, it is not something you’ve truly experienced or fully understand IMO either…

This is a thin argument. One cannot understand something unless one has experienced it? That has scary connotations indeed!
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Scary? It’s one of the most basic laws of the spiritual life my friend. 🤷
 
Then don’t criticize Islam, abortion, homosexuality, Catholicism, Judaism, Anglicans, or a million other things because you’ve never experienced them or walked in their shoes…🤷

Oh…and thanks for calling me friend (Bill Murray :p)
josephdaniel29 said:
Scary? It’s one of the most basic laws of the spiritual life my friend. 🤷
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So please, tell me again where these crosses are found? Is it in Asia? In the US? Or somewhere else? I’ve just never seen such a thing before.

I will say that the church I go to which is more orthodox has a “pretty” crucifix behind the altar. Jesus looks like he is peacefully floating on the cross, not really nailed there and hanging from the nails. His head is not really hanging down. He does not look to be in any agony. More like a combination between the resurrection and the crucifixation. It’s a nice pose.

Here, you can see it on the home page.

home page
 
Cecilianus said:
Where do you have Western iconography? The closest I’ve seen have been Greek icons used by Polish Roman Catholics - the Theotokos of the Passion, or Our Lady of Perpetual Help - and some pictures published by the “Monastery Icons” company which were written by “monks” of the Gnostic Orthodox Church but which appear to be Roman Catholic. Blessed Fra Angelico’s religious art can’t be considered iconography unless there is a label on the painting.
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The West in my experience tends to classify iconography as one of many kinds of religious art.

Some Western art is very much influenced by Byzantine iconography (e.g. the San Damiano cross popular amongst Franciscans: franciscanfriarstor.com/archive/stfrancis/images/SanDam3.gif). Italy had notable influences from Byzantium through the southern states which had a long Byzantine presence, and also through Florence. Some Renaissance artists, for example Duccio, were heavily influenced by Byzantine iconography, and their works are just as Eastern as Western in appearance. e.g. upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/Duccio_Maest%C3%A0.jpg/800px-Duccio_Maest%C3%A0.jpg

I also notice that Romanesque art is similiar to Byzantine iconography in some respects. e.g. upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Meister_aus_Tahull_001.jpg/531px-Meister_aus_Tahull_001.jpg
 
gurneyhalleck1 said:
Then don’t criticize Islam, abortion, homosexuality, Catholicism, Judaism, Anglicans, or a million other things because you’ve never experienced them or walked in their shoes…🤷

Oh…and thanks for calling me friend (Bill Murray :p)
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There is a difference between criticizing something we know to be false (about which we only really need to know facts about) and preaching a reality we know to be true (which does have to be experienced - and that is the most basic law of the spiritual life).

Islam and homosexuality are not ineffable mysteries and one does not need to experience them to criticize them. But even then, one should be compassionate towards homosexuals because without experiencing their temptation you can’t know what they’re struggling with - but it doesn’t follow that we can’t know that homosexuality is a grave disorder. And likewise, one has to actually meet Muslims and delve into the spiritual depths of Sufism, or at least do some of the things Muslims do - like bow down before God five times a day (something Muslims learned from the Orthodox) - in order to say that he really understands Islam.
 
patrick457 said:
And why is that?
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An icon is not considered an icon unless there is writing on it - reason being (I think) that the purpose of an icon is didactic and not artistic. I showed some paintings by Fra Angelico to an iconographer once and he insisted that they weren’t icons because there wasn’t any writing.
 
Cecilianus said:
An icon is not considered an icon unless there is writing on it - reason being (I think) that the purpose of an icon is didactic and not artistic. I showed some paintings by Fra Angelico to an iconographer once and he insisted that they weren’t icons because there wasn’t any writing.
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Icons are didactic (intended to teach the Faith). They also are grace-filled windows into eternity. The saints become present to us, and we participate with the saints through their icons.
 
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