Resurrection? Why?

[simplynoone]

Why the need for daily reminder of ritually slaughtering the “gods” that they once worshiped.

*YOU tell me! You are all the ones who keep the daily reminder of a man on a cross, claiming it is a sacrifice for the sins of mankind. You completely negate your own belief and cut down your own styles of worship… not the Jewish People’s… they are not sacrificing and they do not worship the image of a man hanging on a cross claiming it as a sacrifice for their sins. Truly you are only condemning your own self. *

As I live, says the Lord GOD, with a mighty hand and outstretched arm, with poured-out wrath, ]I swear I will be king over you! With a mighty hand and outstretched arm, with poured-out wrath, I will bring you out from the nations and gather you from the countries over which you are scattered; then I will lead you to the desert of the peoples, where I will enter into judgment with you face to face. Just as I entered into judgment with your fathers in the desert of the land of Egypt, so will I enter into judgment with you, says the Lord GOD. (Ezek 20:33-36).

Why don’t you share with me what it is you especially enjoy about the above passage.

 

[simplynoone]

You then believe that He does not/cannot do miracles (in the Old Testament or the New) which suspend the natural laws He established for the sake of calling man’s attention back to Him. You do not trust a God who held back the waters for Moses and the children of Israel to pass through, Who caused His servant Isaiah to feed miraculously the widow of Zarephath and her son, and Who raised that son from the dead, Who miraculously caused the conflagration that consumed Isaiah’s offering - and the priests of Baal along with. Nope, not much of a God to trust Who does such things.

Psalm 28:5 … Meanwhile, you all fail to see that He is working even now… because you disregard the works of His “hands”… Clearly at the end of Job He comforts Job by giving him the knowledge that He DOES work within the Natural Laws that He established. I do not think they are not miracles and I do not think they are so mundane that He should out do Himself to get my attention. He has my attention BECAUSE of what it is He established to hold together His creation… and to serve as a guide to knowing Him.

Yes, there is a way to know ones views are correct as opposed to another’s. First, one must accept that there is truth that can be known and that it is discoverable; second, it is through the gift of Faith which gives a surety to what God has revealed in His Self-Revelation of Himself through His Son, a Self-Revelation of His choosing for our salvation. If one denies the Son, then one denies that Truth which He has chosen to reveal; further, that Self-Revelation has been entrusted to His Church to propagate and protect and can thus be relied upon in forming one’s understanding of what God has revealed.

And He declared that His Son is Israel. Exodus 4:22,23 and Hosea 11:1… but I do understand that this declaration is not suitable for the Church. Still, I think it was a wise choice made by God because through Israel, I have found the Truth.

Certainly we can bring about our own death by our sins; but we do not have the power to give back life where it has been taken away. Only God can do that, and He has done that precisely in His Son, how in glory.

*If only you knew what I am meaning when I said the above is Truth. *

Nooooo; neither I nor any other Christian is wanting “power over physical death”; that power is God’s alone. Physical death is something, however, that was not meant to be ours, and He has restored us to the hope of eternal life with Him through His Son become Incarnate and raised from the dead.

*Right… rather that God jumps through hoops for you? Meaning, you make the declarations and have faith and He will agree these declarations are better than what it is He actually declared in the Tanakh. Do you think faith in man’s imagination will pay off? If it is in the Tanakh, what you say above, can you show me?.. (assuming you are meaning Jesus when you say “son”) *

“Stale humans” is an interesting way to describe the summit of God’s creation, made in His image. It is not because of any greatness on our part (without His grace we have none), but of His own Greatness that He desires to have man come to know Him so intimately as to live with Him forever having been transformed into the likeness of the Son.

*Yeah… “stale humans” was not the best description, I know. Was the only thing I could think of to describe it at the time. Just meaning to say that most are so wearied of Life… this Life was created by the Almighty and so… renewal. You only think He is great because you think you will get what it is you desire… something in your own imagination. I think He is great because of THIS, that we are in… right now! *

Who said anything about Him doing a “lousy job here”?! You are reading a lot of your own misconceptions of Christianity (“pining away”) into what is being said to you on this thread. This life is a gift, one in which to rejoice in good times and in bad. What God has created is good; what He has in store for us in His Kingdom is that good come to fulfillment, thus the best because there we will know Him as He Is, not a through a glass darkly.

I was in Christianity… raised in it and the logical follow through even based on what you say here above is that you do not consider this good enough.

But, apparently, some suffer from jealousy of the Elder Son and cannot bring themselves to recognize Him; .

*YES!!! That is what I mean!! And even with it declared, so many STILL change it to something else. That IS true jealousy! I agree 110% with this. *

 

[OnlyJesus]

bibleprobe.com/365messianicprophecies.htm

I pray for Israel and that all Jews will accept their Messiah Jesus Christ, Yeshua is both Machiach Ben Yosef, the Suffering Servant, fulfilled in his first coming.

Mashiach Ben David. Ruling King - Second Coming in all of His power and Glory.

His 1000 year reign of peach on earth will fulfill many Tanach prophecies.

 

[Lapell]

*Abortion is not part of the 10 commandments but keeping the Sabbath day is. You speak of the former, but the Church does not observe the latter.

Now, let me explain about abortion considering I know this view is held to under “thou shalt not kill.” I do not believe that abortion is something to be used as birth control… abstinence or some form of birth control is the more wise choice to make. BUT, it is only logical that when it comes between the baby’s life and the mother’s life, the mothers life is the more important since she is the one with the awareness of life. Generally, the pregnancy is naturally aborted when something is not right, but there are cases that this does not occur. (I don’t consider it a miracle, because there are many such cases where both mother and child have died). I am of the mind that the mother, having knowledge of life, is the more important of the two to save. Could I have ever aborted… honestly no. I have gone through two natural abortions and that was VERY difficult for me. But I would not DARE to encourage a mother whose life was in danger to not abort the pregnancy if it did not do so on its own. In fact, if it were a family member or a close friend, I would encourage her to DO so… especially if she already has children in the stage of awareness, for they are dependent upon her presence.

I think the Church (not just the catholic, so as not to single out here) is selfish for not taking this into consideration and guilting women who should not be guilted.*
Now, simplynoone, it seems to me that in nearly all of the cases of abortion (nearly all, not all, O.K.), the woman’s life was not even at risk from complications in pregnancy. It would be a rather rare thing in the present state of medicine. don’t tell me that at least one BILLION babies around the globe since 1973 were aborted because of complications during the pregnancies of all those mothers!

 

[Lapell]

I was in Christianity… raised in it and the logical follow through even based on what you say here above is that you do not consider this good enough. You were? Was it as a Catholic, or in another Christian denomination?

 

[Lapell]

bibleprobe.com/365messianicprophecies.htm

I pray for Israel and that all Jews will accept their Messiah Jesus Christ, Yeshua is both Machiach Ben Yosef, the Suffering Servant, fulfilled in his first coming.

Mashiach Ben David. Ruling King - Second Coming in all of His power and Glory.

His 1000 year reign of peach on earth will fulfill many Tanach prophecies.

Obviously you are not Catholic. Unless you use the 1,000 years symbolicly!

 

[FCEGM]

*YES!!! That is what I mean!! And even with it declared, so many STILL change it to something else. That IS true jealousy! I agree 110% with this. *

No, you don’t; unless of course, you recognize the Lord Jesus Christ as the Elder Son - and the Only-Begotton Son of God.

Beyond that, it’s obvious that further discussion will be fruitless as you persist in reading into my statements beliefs that I and countless millions of Catholics (and many other Christians) do not hold. Whether you do this as a means of protecting your apostacy or through simple ignorance (or both) I cannot say.

 

[Lapell]

(…) it’s obvious that further discussion will be fruitless as you persist in reading into my statements beliefs that I and countless millions of Catholics (and many other Christians) do not hold. Whether you do this as a means of protecting your apostacy or through simple ignorance (or both) I cannot say.

What did simplynoone exactly say about which statements of yours, FCEGM? I am afraid I didn’t follow your exchange of arguments…

 

[Lapell]

Faith and reason are not in opposition with each other, but rather in complementarity, simplynoone, you know!

 

[FCEGM]

What did simplynoone exactly say about which statements of yours, FCEGM? I am afraid I didn’t follow your exchange of arguments…

Here are a few examples, Lapell:

What you are wanting is power over physical death and that will never happen…

*The Creator of this Life is the Creator of all and so, if you think He did a lousy job here, what makes you think you will be content somewhere else… *

The latest example:

Just meaning to say that most are so wearied of Life… this Life was created by the Almighty and so… renewal. You only think He is great because you think you will get what it is you desire… something in your own imagination.

(BTW, I am neither wearied of life, nor do I think God is great because of what He can give me but, rather, for Who He IS in Himself. )

 

[Lapell]

Here are a few examples, Lapell:
The latest example:
(BTW, I am neither wearied of life, nor do I think God is great because of what He can give me but, rather, for Who He IS in Himself. )

I think he simply shared with you his impressions, of course they were not on the money.
Impressions are far from being always in accordance to God’s objective truths, including on ourselves.
Obscurity and illusions are often present, and truly some impressions that seem so real may in fact be anything but the truth, as saint John of the Cross tells us. But saint John of the Cross was a Catholic. I read somewhere that some have said that he was of Jewish descent, but I personally would be surprised. Not scandalized, but surprprised…

 

[simplynoone]

Now, simplynoone, it seems to me that in nearly all of the cases of abortion (nearly all, not all, O.K.), the woman’s life was not even at risk from complications in pregnancy. It would be a rather rare thing in the present state of medicine. don’t tell me that at least one BILLION babies around the globe since 1973 were aborted because of complications during the pregnancies of all those mothers!

*No, that was not my point. As I said, certainly is not wise that a woman use that method as birthcontrol. The point was that you said the Church observes (something to that effect) the 10 commandments and then cited “the fight against” abortion as an example. I do not think that is something that would count as observing the 10 Commandments. In fact, I think that it is false morality that so many go to the abortion clinics on saturday mornings to protest because 1) it is not certain why a woman is considering an abortion and yet she is automatically labeled a sinner and 2) if one has their own motes to be pulled out of their eye, it is logical to say that pulling motes out of another’s eye is not going to rid their own eye’s obstruction.

Understand? *

 

[FCEGM]

I think he simply shared with you his impressions, of course they were not on the money.
Impressions are far from being always in accordance to God’s objective truths, including on ourselves.
Obscurity and illusions are often present, and truly some impressions that seem so real may in fact be anything but the truth, as saint John of the Cross tells us. But saint John of the Cross was a Catholic. I read somewhere that some have said that he was of Jewish descent, but I personally would be surprised. Not scandalized, but surprprised…

I’ve seen that, too, about St. John, but it doesn’t surprise me; his “partner in crime” , St. Teresa of Jesus, had some Jewish ancestry on her father’s side.

 

[simplynoone]

Lapell: That is my stand about eternal life. We are told that it’s what God has in store for all those faithful to Him, the Jews and the Gentiles. Is that being desperate?
Maybe what I said earlier came just from the fact that I learned of such a promise from such an early age, and I would not understand why it would be withdrawn all of a sudde3n after so many centuries…
And I was born in a Catholic family, not a Jewish one. Maybe this explains… If you have received from God the gift of being content observing God’s Words in this life, this is great indeed in itself, I acknowledge it! I am sure God will give you even greater reasons to be happy if you keep on to the end. God bless you greatly with His Shalom, you and your whole family, wherever you are! And also… Shabbat Shalom!!!

I was not born in a Jewish family either. Christianity… Baptists no less. I just can not find anything in the Tanakh that says we as individuals will have eternal life. In fact, I was just reading in Psalm 104 this morning… verses 29 and 30. What am I to do? Believe something that is not there? As is evidenced in even those verses as well as all throughout the Tanakh (Ecclesiastes is VERY clear in this regard), the spirit of Life (that being the breath of Life) is what is given to us by God… that awareness… BUT it will return to Him again and we will go back to the dust. So, my speculation is that we have that sense of eternal Life and it is what draws us to wanting to know about God and how it is He works… that we long to be back with Him is that spirit of Life. But just as we were not aware before that spirit was given to us, neither will be aware when it is taken back. It is what I see in the Tanakh. I do not see what it is that Christiainity claims about eternal life in a glorified physical body that will live in another place called heaven. shrugs

 

[simplynoone]

Here are a few examples, Lapell:

The latest example:

(BTW, I am neither wearied of life, nor do I think God is great because of what He can give me but, rather, for Who He IS in Himself. )

* But all of these ideas I have gotten from the Tanakh. Why are you upset at me as though I made this up on my own?

Psalm 104:29,30 says:
“Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.
Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.”

Ecclesiastes 8:8 says:
“There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war, neither shall the wickedness deliver those that are given to it.”

Ecclesiastes 9:5,10
"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with all thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

And this barely even scratches the surface.

Psalm 28:5
“Because they regard not the works of the LORD, nor the operation of his hands, he shall destroy them, and not build them up.”

BUT…

Psalm 27:8,10-11
“When thou saidst, Seek ye my face, my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek.
When my father and my mother forsake me, then the LORD will take me up.
Teach me thy way, O LORD, and lead me in a plain path, because of mine enemies.”

And He has been. I have realized that this is where Life is and here it is I must seek Him and worship Him… IN TRUTH… not create a god of my own imagination, but to TRULY seek the God of the Living. There is much confusion in Christianity and even here on this thread, it has been admitted that one has to buy those beliefs blindly… on faith. But here, what I am saying, well it is there in front of you that I am not making this up. *

 

[Lapell]

*No, that was not my point. As I said, certainly is not wise that a woman use that method as birthcontrol. The point was that you said the Church observes (something to that effect) the 10 commandments and then cited “the fight against” abortion as an example. I do not think that is something that would count as observing the 10 Commandments. In fact, I think that it is false morality that so many go to the abortion clinics on saturday mornings to protest because 1) it is not certain why a woman is considering an abortion and yet she is automatically labeled a sinner and 2) if one has their own motes to be pulled out of their eye, it is logical to say that pulling motes out of another’s eye is not going to rid their own eye’s obstruction.

Understand? *

Surely you haven’t ever listened to the program Defending Life on EWTN, otherwise you know more exactly what these people have been doing there.
Also you must not have heard of Silent No More, a group of women who had an abortion and had gone through a lot of personal problems (psychological, physiological) which actually originated precisely from having had an abortion…
(Defending Life can be viewed on EWTN every Friday night at 10 p. m. (Eastern Time).)

 

[Lapell]

You probably have listened to the version of the “facts” by the pro-abortion people, maybe from doctors who perform abortions…

 

[Lapell]

I was not born in a Jewish family either. Christianity… Baptists no less. I just can not find anything in the Tanakh that says we as individuals will have eternal life. In fact, I was just reading in Psalm 104 this morning… verses 29 and 30. What am I to do? Believe something that is not there? As is evidenced in even those verses as well as all throughout the Tanakh (Ecclesiastes is VERY clear in this regard), the spirit of Life (that being the breath of Life) is what is given to us by God… that awareness… BUT it will return to Him again and we will go back to the dust. So, my speculation is that we have that sense of eternal Life and it is what draws us to wanting to know about God and how it is He works… that we long to be back with Him is that spirit of Life. But just as we were not aware before that spirit was given to us, neither will be aware when it is taken back. It is what I see in the Tanakh. I do not see what it is that Christiainity claims about eternal life in a glorified physical body that will live in another place called heaven.

If you are not a Jew, how come you read the TaNaKh? (That’s the Hebrew Bible, in Hebrew) You studied Hebrew and can read it fluently?
When I mention the TaNaKH, it’s to Jews… or to people who look like they are Jews. To them alone. But I usually read in a French (or English) version of the Bible (usually one with the Deuterocanonical Books, which were included in the Septuagint Bible (which BTW was put together even before the Hebrew Bible, did you know that?)

 

[Lapell]

Also, you seem to take the verses quite absolutely, apart from their context, and the context of the whole Bible, which can be dangerous. You might interpret certain passages in ways that are not faithful to their meaning in the context… Also, certains passage meanings are made more precise by other passages elsewhere in the Bible, do you know that. Did you know that even for Jews there are some rules as to Scriptural interpretation which must be observed in order that the interpretation of a passage be considered authentic?

 

[Lapell]

Also, you seem to take the verses quite absolutely, apart from their context, and the context of the whole Bible, which can be dangerous. You might interpret certain passages in ways that are not faithful to their meaning in the context… Also, certains passage meanings are made more precise by other passages elsewhere in the Bible, do you know that? Do you know that even for Jews there are some rules as to Scriptural interpretation which must be observed in order that the interpretation of a passage be considered authentic?