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garyr
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How long have you guys been married?
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GoBison
Guest
We have been married 6 years and together 10 years.
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Augusta_Sans
Guest
I think she owes you an explanation. If moving HER life forward is so important, the least she can do is help you move YOUR life forward by explaining to you in which area she thinks you failed to “get better.” Really, she sounds like me two years ago. Wish I could slap some sense into her, for her own sake!
Praying for you.
Praying for you.
I
iamrefreshed
Guest
Hey GoBison…A couple of things…one of which will make me unpopular.
First, GO TO RETOUVAILLE!!! Even if seperate rooms. JUST GET HER THERE!!!
Second, and I’m very sorry for this but…all signs you mention point to a wife who has strayed.
If you’ve gotten the “I love you but I’m not in love with you” speech or the “we need space” line then you need to be careful.
Start investigating! Check cell records, e-mail, chat whatever.
I hope I’m wrong. If not PM me.
First, GO TO RETOUVAILLE!!! Even if seperate rooms. JUST GET HER THERE!!!
Second, and I’m very sorry for this but…all signs you mention point to a wife who has strayed.
If you’ve gotten the “I love you but I’m not in love with you” speech or the “we need space” line then you need to be careful.
Start investigating! Check cell records, e-mail, chat whatever.
I hope I’m wrong. If not PM me.
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GoBison
Guest
I have agreed to go with her with separate rooms. However she also wants me to sign divorce papers agreeing on a settlement before we go. I told her I refuse to do so as I don’t think she will show up. I let her know that I would sign after the weekend if she was still interested in it. She is unwilling to do that.
Right now the best and maybe only thing I can do is to pray for her.
Thanks
Right now the best and maybe only thing I can do is to pray for her.
Thanks
S
Seatuck
Guest
Is this a valid marriage according to the teachings of the Catholic Church?
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GoBison
Guest
Do I think it is a valid marriage? Yes.
Do I think that the church will grant an annulment? Yeah mainly because the current state of the church will allow an annulment to just about anyone because the church is more scared to lose membership and money. But that is another topic.
Do I think that the church will grant an annulment? Yeah mainly because the current state of the church will allow an annulment to just about anyone because the church is more scared to lose membership and money. But that is another topic.
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Liberanosamalo
Guest
You come down a little hard on the annulments there.
The church allows annulments for just about everyone because it stupidly allowed weddings to just about everyone, even people who got married and didn’t intend kids when they got married and didn’t think marriage was permanent. A group which your wife seems to be among. 6 years and no kids? Someone didn’t intend to have kids. That’s in violation of one of the three necessary ingredients for marriage. The couple must intend at the time of the wedding for it to be exclusive, perpetual and open to kids.
The only reason she “told” you she’d be open to starting a family was to manipulate you into behaving her way?
Until the Church starts telling some couples “No, we will not conduct a wedding until you have a clue what MARRIAGE is about,” there will continue to be situations like this.
It would be the height of cruelty for the church to allow such invalid marriages in the first place and then tell the party that is walked out on that they are bound forever to a vow the other party never intended to keep.
Those of us who have been abandoned in that way call the Church “merciful.”
You haven’t been shown much by your spouse. Take mercy where you can get it. I’m sorry. Been there, done that. Whether you think it’s a valid marriage right now while you’re still in the middle of it trying to preserve it and whether you will “think” it’s valid when she takes up with some guy at warp speed after she gets her divorce paper will be interesting. For 6 years she has seemed to live a lie. She didn’t intend to stay forever with you and she didn’t intend to have kids. You may not have been aware of that, but that’s what it looks like from here. Only she knows whether she’s really been faithful either.
The church allows annulments for just about everyone because it stupidly allowed weddings to just about everyone, even people who got married and didn’t intend kids when they got married and didn’t think marriage was permanent. A group which your wife seems to be among. 6 years and no kids? Someone didn’t intend to have kids. That’s in violation of one of the three necessary ingredients for marriage. The couple must intend at the time of the wedding for it to be exclusive, perpetual and open to kids.
The only reason she “told” you she’d be open to starting a family was to manipulate you into behaving her way?
Until the Church starts telling some couples “No, we will not conduct a wedding until you have a clue what MARRIAGE is about,” there will continue to be situations like this.
It would be the height of cruelty for the church to allow such invalid marriages in the first place and then tell the party that is walked out on that they are bound forever to a vow the other party never intended to keep.
Those of us who have been abandoned in that way call the Church “merciful.”
You haven’t been shown much by your spouse. Take mercy where you can get it. I’m sorry. Been there, done that. Whether you think it’s a valid marriage right now while you’re still in the middle of it trying to preserve it and whether you will “think” it’s valid when she takes up with some guy at warp speed after she gets her divorce paper will be interesting. For 6 years she has seemed to live a lie. She didn’t intend to stay forever with you and she didn’t intend to have kids. You may not have been aware of that, but that’s what it looks like from here. Only she knows whether she’s really been faithful either.
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kage_ar
Guest
I’d bet you lunch that there is another man (or woman).
Prayers!!
Prayers!!
H
Happy_Again
Guest
Dear GoBison, there seems to be a lot of generalities and conjecture being bantered about here, and it would appear that there is some lack of focus going on as well. The focus is on you and your particular situation. Only your wife can say what her intentions were on your wedding day; you can only speak from your point of view. Why there are no children in your marriage is a very private matter and entails unique circumstances that only you and your wife can attest to.
Irregardless of what others might say or believe about the institution of the Church or the sacrament of marriage, the fact remains that two people said “I do” and professed their desire to be together “till death do us part.” You were of sound mind and body according to BOTH the Church and the state as evidenced by the marriage license/certificate.
What becomes of that relationship is up to only the two of you. Canon law clearly dictates rules for annulments and one might do well to read up on those laws rather than speak ill of that which one does not fully understand. They are not to be taken lightly by anyone…even those in the marriage tribunals who determine the validity of a marriage.
Keeping you both in prayer!
Irregardless of what others might say or believe about the institution of the Church or the sacrament of marriage, the fact remains that two people said “I do” and professed their desire to be together “till death do us part.” You were of sound mind and body according to BOTH the Church and the state as evidenced by the marriage license/certificate.
What becomes of that relationship is up to only the two of you. Canon law clearly dictates rules for annulments and one might do well to read up on those laws rather than speak ill of that which one does not fully understand. They are not to be taken lightly by anyone…even those in the marriage tribunals who determine the validity of a marriage.
Keeping you both in prayer!
H
Happy_Again
Guest
This article appeared online and in print a few days ago about a couple who has been instrumental in starting Retrouvaille in a few countries around the world. Their story, as unbelieveable as it may seem, is true and very relatable.
home.catholicweb.com/simbanggabi/index.cfm/NewsItem?ID=132&From=home&partnerarticle=1
home.catholicweb.com/simbanggabi/index.cfm/NewsItem?ID=132&From=home&partnerarticle=1
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GoBison
Guest
Thanks for the prayers,
Retro is not in our near future. I was told today by my lawyer that her lawyer is going to go to the judge if I don’t hurry things along. The judge does not like to see marriages go to court if there are no kids involved. It is a no-fault state so they do not think that there should not be any issues so it can be done quickly. She is pushing hard to get it over with and not talk to any counselors or go to Retro. Yeah I agree there is a good chance there is an affair but I have no solid proof as she moved out quickly and she has denied it. Not that I could do anything anyhow at this point.
Retro is not in our near future. I was told today by my lawyer that her lawyer is going to go to the judge if I don’t hurry things along. The judge does not like to see marriages go to court if there are no kids involved. It is a no-fault state so they do not think that there should not be any issues so it can be done quickly. She is pushing hard to get it over with and not talk to any counselors or go to Retro. Yeah I agree there is a good chance there is an affair but I have no solid proof as she moved out quickly and she has denied it. Not that I could do anything anyhow at this point.
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Happy_Again
Guest
Dear GoBison, I am saddened by your news but will definitely keep the both of you in prayer. Miracles do happen…my saved marriage is one…but it happened only in God’s perfect time. In 19 years of ministry we’ve seen unbelieveable things…even couples already divorced – some for even a few years – remarry. Scripture tells us that God hates divorce and only decreed it because of the hardened heart of one spouse. But scripture also says that God’s grace is sufficient and it will sustain you. Fear not but have faith. This is not to falsely lead you to believe all will be as you wish it in the future, only that “all things are possible with God.” You do have some control over how you act and what you say as things progress, but through it all I pray you will show your wife the utmost respect so that she might also do the same and/or at least see that person she first met and fell in love with … those endearing qualities that first brought you together. That’s what Retrouvaille is all about – the French word means “rediscovery” and somewhere along the path of life we both let life get in the way and “change us” to such a degree that we don’t even really “see” that other person we first fell in love with and eventually married. I pray God gifts you with strength to always act/say responsibly even though your whole heart may not be in it. I hope you will keep posting…and may the coming of the Christ child warm your heart and bring a smile to your face and give you hope. Peace and prayers, Happy Again
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mommabear
Guest
i will keep you in my prayers, i got my (reluctant to go ) husband to go to Retrouville in august 2008. the first time we were supposed to go (march) he cancelled the day before. I think it is better if she actually is willing to work on the marriage. on the plus side- My husband DID go, did stay the whole weekend. bad part was the hard-heartedness didnt melt and he refused to do the follow up which you are supposed to commit to at least do all of this too. Dont waste time worrying/trying to fiquire out/spy on your wife to see if she has someone new. it doesnt make any difference. trust me it only made me more upset and anxious.whether they already have someone new, or just think a better replacement for you is out there somewhere the end result is the same: they want out and have forgotten to vows they promised, to love and honor- to CHOOSE to do so. lean on God, trust him , trust his timing , he will take care of you. I am
still praying that God will melt my husbands frozen hardened heart towards me and that our marriage( almost 20 yr- in 6months) will be reconcilled.
Hang in there, take it one day at a time, one hr, one minute . God is always there.
still praying that God will melt my husbands frozen hardened heart towards me and that our marriage( almost 20 yr- in 6months) will be reconcilled.
Hang in there, take it one day at a time, one hr, one minute . God is always there.
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Happy_Again
Guest
Dear Mommabear and GoBison,
Mommabear, you have learned a lot from your Retrouvaille experience. It is unfortunate that you did not attend the entire program…think how much more you would have learned! The Weekend is only HALF of the program.
Consider this, everything happens in God’s perfect time! We can’t force couples to attend the Post Weekend Sessions, but we encourage them: “Don’t leave five minutes before the miracle happens!” For some their miracle happens on the Weekend, but it’s different for every couple. For us, our miracle didn’t happen until TWO MONTHS after our Weekend. And I am so grateful to my husband for staying committed to the promise to attend the entire program. That was nearly 19 years ago.
GoBison, you would do well to respect your wife for all the decisions she is making/will continue to make which you do not agree with, but stay committed to what you believe it right, as well…that being not signing the papers until she goes to a Weekend (let commitment to the Post Weekend Sessions follow naturally, do not force that issue but we know miracles happen to 80% of the couples who attend the program. Studies in two huge cities were conducted over a 5-year period: five years after attending a Retrouvaille program 80% of the couples were either still together or back together as a result of their Retrouvaille experience! Lawyers and counselors send us couples, they believe the communication skills taught during the program are that valuable!
Sigh! I realize you can’t do this alone and she’s still saying no, but keep praying. Miracles do happen. I will now keep BOTH of your and your spouses in my prayers! Please keep me posted.
Peace and prayers,
Happy Again
Mommabear, you have learned a lot from your Retrouvaille experience. It is unfortunate that you did not attend the entire program…think how much more you would have learned! The Weekend is only HALF of the program.
Consider this, everything happens in God’s perfect time! We can’t force couples to attend the Post Weekend Sessions, but we encourage them: “Don’t leave five minutes before the miracle happens!” For some their miracle happens on the Weekend, but it’s different for every couple. For us, our miracle didn’t happen until TWO MONTHS after our Weekend. And I am so grateful to my husband for staying committed to the promise to attend the entire program. That was nearly 19 years ago.
GoBison, you would do well to respect your wife for all the decisions she is making/will continue to make which you do not agree with, but stay committed to what you believe it right, as well…that being not signing the papers until she goes to a Weekend (let commitment to the Post Weekend Sessions follow naturally, do not force that issue but we know miracles happen to 80% of the couples who attend the program. Studies in two huge cities were conducted over a 5-year period: five years after attending a Retrouvaille program 80% of the couples were either still together or back together as a result of their Retrouvaille experience! Lawyers and counselors send us couples, they believe the communication skills taught during the program are that valuable!
Sigh! I realize you can’t do this alone and she’s still saying no, but keep praying. Miracles do happen. I will now keep BOTH of your and your spouses in my prayers! Please keep me posted.
Peace and prayers,
Happy Again
L
Liberanosamalo
Guest
Retrouvaille is a good program. But it does not always work miracles. And it’s unfair to insinuate that those who did not get a mended marriage or happiness again were at fault. I went. I almost walked out during it because my xh was doing everything they said not to do (garbage dumping first of all). In retrospect I know he used it to get me to stay in the marriage long enough to get me out of the state so he could divorce me far from my family. My retrouvaille experience was 13 years ago. He didn’t attend the follow-up sessions. I went alone. Which was so symbolic of a marriage I was in alone.
He refused to do the follow on writing. Couldn’t be bothered.
No, it’s not a guarantee of a miracle. It takes TWO people to want a marriage. If someone is already one foot out, sometimes you’re best off letting them go and just thank God and all the saints in heaven you didn’t have children with that person who would tie you forever to someone who hates you that much.
Please don’t blame the people who can’t make it work for the fact that sometimes despite your best efforts, there just isn’t a marriage.
If she is that intent on getting out, maybe this is the best Christmas gift she can give him… the freedom to move on with his life and find someone someday who truly loves him.
What he needs to do is keep the emails and documents from his spouse to add to his annulment petition showing that HE was doing everything in his power to make the marriage work and stay together and she wanted no part of it.
I go back to my initial questions about whether this person even intended the marriage to be fruitful, faithful and forever.
He refused to do the follow on writing. Couldn’t be bothered.
No, it’s not a guarantee of a miracle. It takes TWO people to want a marriage. If someone is already one foot out, sometimes you’re best off letting them go and just thank God and all the saints in heaven you didn’t have children with that person who would tie you forever to someone who hates you that much.
Please don’t blame the people who can’t make it work for the fact that sometimes despite your best efforts, there just isn’t a marriage.
If she is that intent on getting out, maybe this is the best Christmas gift she can give him… the freedom to move on with his life and find someone someday who truly loves him.
What he needs to do is keep the emails and documents from his spouse to add to his annulment petition showing that HE was doing everything in his power to make the marriage work and stay together and she wanted no part of it.
I go back to my initial questions about whether this person even intended the marriage to be fruitful, faithful and forever.
I
iamrefreshed
Guest
Your gut reaction is probably right.Yeah I agree there is a good chance there is an affair but I have no solid proof as she moved out quickly and she has denied it. Not that I could do anything anyhow at this point.
How about a private detective for confirmation. If nothing else, knowing will help you deal with the situation. Also, if it is an affair you can expose it to her family to try and stop it.
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renatas
Guest
i am in the same boat. my husband wants out because of some family wrecker at work who has no morals about breaking up a marriage.
i wanted to go to retrouvaille as well but he wanted no part of it and didnt want to be around a bunch of bible thumpers.
i sympathize with you and i bet dollars to donuts there is someone else. no one in their right mind wants to separate and divorce unless their is someone else but it will never work out for them.
once a cheater, you know the rest and then you can her to fly a kite. good luck and sorry for being so brash but i am literally going through the same thing right NOW. what a wonderul way to start 2010. my heart is to broken in thousands of pieces.
i wanted to go to retrouvaille as well but he wanted no part of it and didnt want to be around a bunch of bible thumpers.
i sympathize with you and i bet dollars to donuts there is someone else. no one in their right mind wants to separate and divorce unless their is someone else but it will never work out for them.
once a cheater, you know the rest and then you can her to fly a kite. good luck and sorry for being so brash but i am literally going through the same thing right NOW. what a wonderul way to start 2010. my heart is to broken in thousands of pieces.
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Liberanosamalo
Guest
Sorry, Renatas. I know it hurts.
But don’t forget to keep the blame where it belongs. The woman at work isn’t the only homewrecker with no morals. She owes your family nothing. You are strangers to her.
The person who is more guilty is the man who owes you everything who can walk away from her but chooses not to. He is wrecking his own home. He has no morals. Looks like water has sought its own level. He’s found his counterpart. You are too good for him.
It’s always funny to see two cheaters realize they don’t trust each other.
Let him go. (By the way, they always trade “down.” The “new one” is hardly ever as classy or pretty or smart or talented. It’s like they realize they never deserved you in the first place and it’s too hard to try putting on the show keeping equal with you so they find someone who is more on their lower level.)
But don’t forget to keep the blame where it belongs. The woman at work isn’t the only homewrecker with no morals. She owes your family nothing. You are strangers to her.
The person who is more guilty is the man who owes you everything who can walk away from her but chooses not to. He is wrecking his own home. He has no morals. Looks like water has sought its own level. He’s found his counterpart. You are too good for him.
It’s always funny to see two cheaters realize they don’t trust each other.
Let him go. (By the way, they always trade “down.” The “new one” is hardly ever as classy or pretty or smart or talented. It’s like they realize they never deserved you in the first place and it’s too hard to try putting on the show keeping equal with you so they find someone who is more on their lower level.)
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whatevergirl
Guest
Excellent advice, Liberano! (I agree with the part I bolded, this happened to my own sister…if you recall that story)Sorry, Renatas. I know it hurts.
But don’t forget to keep the blame where it belongs. The woman at work isn’t the only homewrecker with no morals. She owes your family nothing. You are strangers to her.
The person who is more guilty is the man who owes you everything who can walk away from her but chooses not to. He is wrecking his own home. He has no morals. Looks like water has sought its own level. He’s found his counterpart. You are too good for him.
**It’s always funny to see two cheaters realize they don’t trust each other. **
Let him go. (By the way, they always trade “down.” The “new one” is hardly ever as classy or pretty or smart or talented. It’s like they realize they never deserved you in the first place and it’s too hard to try putting on the show keeping equal with you so they find someone who is more on their lower level.)
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