Returning to the Protestant Faith

[BernadetteM]

What exactly is it that you want to hear? I say that in my opinion, posters that are protestant keep their church affiliation to themselves because they don’t want to be pigeon holed and then you say not true, then proceed to pigeon hole.

You know, before Luther came along, there wasn’t the uniform faith in the CC that you all think existed when it was the only game in town. If there was, there wouldn’t have been all the councils.

No one is going to go from Protestant to Catholic or vis versa based on an internet chat forum. If they did, that would be a shaky faith, no matter which direction they went.

I don’t think that one is going to change their faith based on the internet chat forum, but it is difficult to converse with someone in an intellligent manner if you have no idea what their belief system is. There are so many different protestant denominations and most don’t agree with one another over doctrine.

Do you think that people will jump all over you because you are from a particular denomination? These forums are just to discuss why we believe what we do, not to convert anyone. Only the Holy Spirit can change one’s heart.

The councils were to define doctrines when the Church felt that heretical beliefs were being believed. There are doctrines within the Church that have had to be clarified, the doctrine itself has not changed.

Since I was a protestant at one time I had to be positive that the Catholic Church was the Church Christ started. I didn’t just accept everything because the Church or the Pope said it. I guess maybe I don’t understand what you mean by being pigeion holed. I have no problem stating I am Catholic on any website whether Catholic or protestant. Can you explain to me what you mean when you say pigeon holed?

I was brought up in a home where my parents were not very fond of the Catholic Church, there was never any reason given, just the attitude from them. I have nothing against my brothers and sisters who belong to another faith. My brother is still part of the church I left. As I stated I have been on different forums and some say some very derogatory things about the Catholic Church, they personalize their comments. I don’t usually find that to be true on CAF. Yes there are different opinions, sometimes strongly stated, but most people don’t attack others in a personal way.

If because of my experience on other forums you think I am pigeon holeing others that is not true at all. All I stated was that CAF was more charitable most of the time than some of the forums I have been on. I don’t see Catholics on CAF accusing others as being the Anti Christ or that they will all go to hell etc. This is the attitude I read on some forums towards Catholics and the Church.

I am sorry if you misunderstood what I meant, maybe because I also didn’t understand what you meant.

God Bless

Bernadette

 

[1momof4]

Regarding Protestant denominations believing in the Real Presence…in order to have a valid sacrament you have to have a validly ordained priest. I am not aware of any ministers in Protestant churches being validly ordained as a priest, so even if some of the people present do believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist it doesn’t matter…He is not present because it is not a valid sacrament. Only in the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church is Jesus truly, present - body, blood, soul and divinity - in Holy Communion.
Yes, “where two or more are gathered…” is true, but, Christ is uniquely present in the Catholic Church through the sacrament of Holy Eucharist.
It is too bad that this poor lady is so lost! I am confident that with prayer she will be okay.
1mom

 

[Justin_Mee]

Regarding Protestant denominations believing in the Real Presence…in order to have a valid sacrament you have to have a validly ordained priest. I am not aware of any ministers in Protestant churches being validly ordained as a priest, so even if some of the people present do believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist it doesn’t matter…He is not present because it is not a valid sacrament. Only in the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church is Jesus truly, present - body, blood, soul and divinity - in Holy Communion.
Yes, “where two or more are gathered…” is true, but, Christ is uniquely present in the Catholic Church through the sacrament of Holy Eucharist.
It is too bad that this poor lady is so lost! I am confident that with prayer she will be okay.
1mom

That is exactly what I was thinking but am too new to the faith to be sure. Am I correct that there has been a ‘laying on of hands’ from the apostles down to the Priests?

 

[Marie5890]

Well, given that our priest and worship director at our Catholic church are both gay (worship director living with his partner) I have serious issues with how Catholics interpret gay marriage.

Im not too clear on why you are leaving now? You are leaving because you are homophobic?

The priest being gay is a non-issue. Priests take vows to remain chaste regardless of sexual orientation.

 

[kalt]

Our parish has a worship director. He is in charge of all the music–very talented man. Music is huge at our parish and there are two traditional and one contemporary music mass each Sunday.

You mean your old parish.

 

[Lutheranteach]

Can you please substantiate that number?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=210649

uscatholic.claretians.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5433&news_iv_ctrl=0&abbr=usc_

findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1252/is_17_128/ai_79305248/

traditio.com/tradlib/polls.txt

 

[spn82756]

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=210649

uscatholic.claretians.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5433&news_iv_ctrl=0&abbr=usc_

findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1252/is_17_128/ai_79305248/

traditio.com/tradlib/polls.txt

One of the sites quoting Fr Stravinkas I accept. Two are basically polls. One is from SSPX website. You know that you…I and all non-traditional Catholics are basically heretics according to SSPX. They cut no mustard with me. You are a sister in Christ. We have differences…but you are my sister in Christ. SSPX requires absolute adherence to their teachings. That makes you and I heretics and damned to hell.

 

[Dokimas]

I didn’t know “memership class” was required for non-denoms. Enjoy!

While you’re in the class, ask them where they stand on moral issues such as:

• abortion** - I’m against it.**
• in vitro fertilization** - for it**
• Destructive embryonic (usually stem cell) research - I’m against it.
• Contraception** - for it; as long as the embryo is not killed.**
• elective sterilization** - for it; same as deciding to be celebate, sort of.**
• euthanasia - I’m against it.
• homosexual acts and homosexual “marriage”** - I’m against it.**
• cloning - I’m against it.
• organ donation and blood transfusion** - for it**

I’d like to hear back about this.

Best wishes.

 

[yellowbird]

elective sterilization - for it; same as deciding to be celebate, sort of.

That one made me chuckle just a little. I’m curious how you think they’re similar? With celebacy, one abstains from having sex. With elective sterilization, one avoids the natural consequences of having sex. I guess the end result for both is no baby… but the latter is I can have my cake and eat it too.

 

[1momof4]

That is exactly what I was thinking but am too new to the faith to be sure. Am I correct that there has been a ‘laying on of hands’ from the apostles down to the Priests?

Hello Justin,
Yes. I will find out exactly how to explain it to you, but yes, there is the line of succession, from the time of the apostles to now. Cool, isn’t it?
1mom

 

[Dokimas]

That one made me chuckle just a little. I’m curious how you think they’re similar? With celebacy, one abstains from having sex. With elective sterilization, one avoids the natural consequences of having sex. I guess the end result for both is no baby… but the latter is I can have my cake and eat it too.

Yep, no babies.

 

[twopekinguys]

Hold the phone…Once again, my Catholic friends the Catholic Church is NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT the only church that believes in the real presence of Christ at the Eucharist. (Lutherans, Episcopalians, Anglicans, Methodists, Presbyterians and others) Also,** let’s keep in mind that only around 30% of American Catholics believe in a real presence**.

What is your reference for making this claim?

If it can’t be substantiated, it can’t be taken seriously.

Please provide a link to where you got the figure that i have bolded.

It is generally known that in the world of statistics, that any numbers over 10 yrs old, are no longer valid.

The US Catholic link refers to a survery in 1992.

 

[Lutheranteach]

Regarding Protestant denominations believing in the Real Presence…in order to have a valid sacrament you have to have a validly ordained priest. I am not aware of any ministers in Protestant churches being validly ordained as a priest, so even if some of the people present do believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist it doesn’t matter…He is not present because it is not a valid sacrament. Only in the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church is Jesus truly, present - body, blood, soul and divinity - in Holy Communion.
Yes, “where two or more are gathered…” is true, but, Christ is uniquely present in the Catholic Church through the sacrament of Holy Eucharist.
It is too bad that this poor lady is so lost! I am confident that with prayer she will be okay.
1mom

I do not believe there is any legit claim to apostolic succession unless it’s via intent and not an actual pipeline of laying on of hands fully believe the Eucharist in a Lutheran, Methodist, etc. church is just as valid as any consecration performed by any priest

 

[Justin_Mee]

Hello Justin,
Yes. I will find out exactly how to explain it to you, but yes, there is the line of succession, from the time of the apostles to now. Cool, isn’t it?
1mom

Yes, it is cool and, more importantly, it is soul inspiring. I was looking up the protestant’s version of the real presence and surprised to find very similar beliefs. I found a picture of an ‘elder’ consecrating the wine. But by what authority? By what power? If he can do it so can I. I thought that the next time I pour myself a glass of Yellowtail, I would give it a go and see what happened. But not wanting to risk blasphemy, I will just leave it to my Priest.

 

[Teneas]

I do not believe there is any legit claim to apostolic succession unless it’s via intent and not an actual pipeline of laying on of hands fully believe the Eucharist in a Lutheran, Methodist, etc. church is just as valid as any consecration performed by any priest

You are right that Lutherans do believe the Eucharist to truly be the Body and Blood of Christ. I am not honestly sure about others.

I think that apostolic succession is needed however for it to truly be. That is simply my opinion on the matter. I am not doubting the faith that you have in the Eucharist, or any other faiths that hold true that it can become the actual body and blood. I wish the separation didn’t happen at the reformation. I suppose the case could be made, and I am sure it has been made some time, that apostolic succession goes to the Lutherans as well, simply for the fact that there were priests ordained Catholic during the Reformation that left with Luther and continued the line.

Honest question: Do Lutherans lay on hands as Catholics do to the priests?

 

[Justin_Mee]

I do not believe there is any legit claim to apostolic succession unless it’s via intent and not an actual pipeline of laying on of hands fully believe the Eucharist in a Lutheran, Methodist, etc. church is just as valid as any consecration performed by any priest

How do you do the consecration? Can elders do the consecration? Do you do it jug at at time or just what you need for individual services? Is it served in individual cups? What care do you take with the spillage? What do you do with the leftover ‘host’? Just interested because I have never been to a Lutheran Church.

 

[1momof4]

I do not believe there is any legit claim to apostolic succession unless it’s via intent and not an actual pipeline of laying on of hands fully believe the Eucharist in a Lutheran, Methodist, etc. church is just as valid as any consecration performed by any priest

Hello Lutheranteach,
Of course you can believe (or not believe) anything you want, but just because you believe it doesn’t make it true. The main reason to believe in the Real Presence is that the infallible teaching authority of the Catholic Church has proclaimed this for nearly 2000 years. The Catholic Church is the one true Church established by Jesus to continue His work on earth - that is to teach, preach and sanctify in His name. With the help of the Holy Spirit, the unbroken line of bishops, reaching back to the Apostles themselves, continues to use the Christ-given authority to reach the world. Luther broke this line when he broke with the Church, so since he was excommunicated, he no longer had the authority to consecrate priests. Protestantism cannot validly consecrate Holy Communion.
Respectfully,
1mom

 

[BernadetteM]

Luther was just a priest and priests don’t have the authority to ordain priests, only Bishops with Apostolic Succession have that authority.

I believe that in parts of Europe there might be some Lutherans who were ordained by a Bishop who had that authority. But because of the intent involved their orders would still be illicit.

I believe that I read on a Lutheran website that one Lutheran church after the communion service dumped the remaining wine outside.

I think they believe that the Body and Blood are only present when the communicant receives it, after that the Presence no longer remains. If this is incorrect please Lutherans correct me as I am just going by what I have read on websites and they aren’t always reliable.

My friend is Lutheran and really doesn’t know too much about her faith, she was born and baptized into a Lutheran family and attended Lutheran schools. Just as many Catholics don’t know their faith, neither do many protestants. I think when you are raised in a certain faith, unless your really interested in the spiritual side you just accept the faith without many questions. That goes for all religions, I am not picking on any.

The Lutherans are similar to the Anglicans in some ways as there are different synods with conflicting views on doctrine. My friend told me that unless you belong to her synod you cannot receive communion in her church, but I believe that in some Lutheran churches any baptized person can receive, is this true as I really don’t know too much about what all Lutherans believe.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

 

[JudiTherese]

I’m guessing it’s the opposite. JudiThereses is disgusted by a Church that says it believes one thing (being an active homosexual is a sin) yet employs an active homosexual as a worship leader. It’s hypocritical. I’d be disgusted too.

I don’t believe that Judi is leaving the Catholic Church for one that is more liberal… but rather for one that is MUCH more conservative… at least of it’s members. Because let’s face it… there are ALOT of totally liberal Catholic parishes out there.

I think it’s espeically difficult for converts… we join the Catholic Church because on paper, we believe everything it stands for and teaches. Once we’re here, we quickly realize that other Catholics don’t believe it… other Priests don’t believe it… it’s like a bait and swtich. We joined thinking it was one thing… and then wa-la… it’s something totally different.

If that’s the case, my suggestion would be to FIND a parish that more closely aligns itself to what the Church stands for on paper. One that would NOT employ an active homosexual for starters.

I could be totally off base though… Judi ??

Exactly. Much more conservative. My family joined our current parish (dh was raised Catholic) a few years ago. They have over 2000 members, but they saw I was in media and called me the very next day and asked me to join to committees. I did, I like to be involved. I also said I would like to take the RCIA classes. They were almost over (this was February) and they had me start attending right then and I was confirmed that April. Then I started realizing that everything wasn’t discussed in those classes. I don’t know–seemed very bait and switch to me.

 

[adstrinity]

Exactly. Much more conservative. My family joined our current parish (dh was raised Catholic) a few years ago. They have over 2000 members, but they saw I was in media and called me the very next day and asked me to join to committees. I did, I like to be involved. I also said I would like to take the RCIA classes. They were almost over (this was February) and they had me start attending right then and I was confirmed that April. Then I started realizing that everything wasn’t discussed in those classes. I don’t know–seemed very bait and switch to me.

AH! Glad to see your reply! I was waiting…

That is so odd. I had never heard that any church would let somebody come in RCIA with two months to go. Typically they make them wait until the next season’s class begins.

No, it’s unfortunate, but, typically, unless one has a VERY good church where there is no nonsense happening at Mass, and the class is taught by a priest, the RCIA is going to be sketchy…at best.

Are you then, in essence, claiming you didn’t have proper discernment time?