Returning to the Protestant Faith

[LindaSK]

The OFFICIAL belief of United Methodists IS a belief in the Real Presence. But just like Catholicism, there are individuals who don’t embrace that belief.

BTW… consubstantiation is NOT an official belief of the Lutherans. That term was coined before the time of Luther and is a metaphysical term. Lutherans have repudiated any metaphysical terminology for Real Presence since the Formula of Concord. It was incorrectly taught, however, for many years.

But just like Catholicism, there are individuals who don’t embrace that belief. I guess that would include pastors also. On Worldwide Communion Sunday, the Methodist pastor very specifically explained that, “We, as Methodists, do not believe in the real presence.” Those were her exact words. And, yes, I know there are Catholics who don’t believe in the real presence, and other teachings of the Church.

The MBOD also calls for Advent to be observed as Advent, and Christmas as Christmas. I also have been told that the Lectionary is only a suggestion of scripture readings for a particular Sunday. Experience tells me that some strictly observe Advent, some don’t. Some strictly follow the Lectionary, some don’t. This is somewhat off topic, but I honestly would like to know how much authority the MBOD has.

To be truthful, ‘consubstantiation’ was not a term I learned in the Lutheran Church. It was something I was told later to explain the difference between a Lutheran and Catholic understanding of the real presence of Christ in Communion. In either case, it was not important to me that it had a label. I just knew what I believed about Communion.

 

[jlhargus]

I’m attending membership class for a non-denom church tonight. I’ve been attending for the last 6 months and just love it there. I am finally being fed spiritually again. (Catholic for 3 years)

JL: I would suggest you spend some time before the tabernacule meditating on your concerns and let the Lord worry about the rest. I will pray for you.

 

[Masters_Servant]

Apostolic succession was initially implemented by Peter on the occassion Matthias was ordained as the successor of Judas with complete apostolic authority (Acts 1:15-26). Apostolic ordination was originally required in order for one to authentically preach the Gospel and administer the seven sacraments (Acts 1:22). This authority was transferred originally by the laying on of hands (Acts 6:6; 13:3; 1 Tim 4:14). Even though Christ had appeared to Paul and directly converted him, the apostle assumed his apostolic authority to serve as a minister by being formally ordained by a (Catholic) bishop (Acts 9: 17-19). The primitive Church regarded this ritual as a special gift of the Holy Spirit which must not be used indiscriminately (1 Tim 5:22; 2 Tim 1:6). Paul commissioned Timothy to take over his divine office at the end of his ministry (2 Tim 4:1-6). True ministers of the Word and Sacraments must be appointed and commissioned by the bishops in union with the Church that was founded by Christ (Acts 15: 22-27). The true apostolic lineage cannot be traced back to the bishops of the primitive Church and the apostles in the Protestant churches which are separated from the one universal and visible Church founded by Christ. A Protestant bishop or minister has no divine authority to ordain someone, since he himself has received no authentic ordination as bishop. Nor can Protestant ministers preach the Gospel with apostolic authority. They have not been sealed with the guarantee of the Holy Spirit (2 Cor 1: 21-22). Only a Catholic bishop and a priest ordained by one can validly consecrate the bread and wine at the altar.

“And thus preaching through countries and cities, they appointed the firstfruits of their labours, having first proved them by the Spirit, to be bishops and deacons of those who should afterwards believe…Our apostles also knew, through our Lord Jesus Christ, that there would be strife on account of the office of the episcopate. For this reason…they appointed those ministers already mentioned, and afterwards gave instructions, that when these should fall asleep, other approved men should succeed them in their ministry.”
Clement, Bishop of Rome, Epistle to Corinthians, 42, 44 (A.D. 98)

Pax Christu :harp:

I did not see anything about seven sacraments in Acts 1. Acts 1 was Apostle replacement implemented by God in Acts 1, not the Apostles. Can you show me this in Scripture because I am totally missing something or is this part of “sacred teaching” by the Catholic church and if that is true, then can you provide a source for me to learn? Thanks.

 

[kristanl]

I did not see anything about seven sacraments in Acts 1. Acts 1 was Apostle replacement implemented by God in Acts 1, not the Apostles. Can you show me this in Scripture because I am totally missing something or is this part of “sacred teaching” by the Catholic church and if that is true, then can you provide a source for me to learn? Thanks.

I would say begin reading at Acts 1:15, where the bible states that Peter stood up and then found in scripture (Psalm 109:8) where “may another take his office.” While scripture is inspired by God. It was Peter and the other 10 apostles getting together that caused Matthias to become an apostle. There needs to 12 for perfect rule (related to the 12 tribes).

Some places for you to learn more:

catholic.com/library/Apostolic_Succession.asp

catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0504sbs.asp

 

[1momof4]

I did not see anything about seven sacraments in Acts 1. Acts 1 was Apostle replacement implemented by God in Acts 1, not the Apostles. Can you show me this in Scripture because I am totally missing something or is this part of “sacred teaching” by the Catholic church and if that is true, then can you provide a source for me to learn? Thanks.

What exactly is your question? Do you want to know what the scriptural basis is for the sacraments? Do you want to clarify what you refer to as “sacred teaching”? Also, I’m not sure what you mean when you say the “Apostle replacement [was] implemented by God in Acts 1”. Peter and the others presented two men for the job, and the lot fell upon Matthias (Acts 1:26). Of course they prayed about the choice, and had faith that the lot would fall to the one chosen to take the place of Judas.
I’m glad you want to learn…there are so many good, smart people on this forum!
God Bless!

 

[humble_maid]

Nobody is making a fuss over me, believe me.

All of the Catholics within this parish I spoke to about my concern with the worship leader/music director all said they knew about it, but forgave it because he is so talented. And he is.

The priest goes to events in the community with this gentleman and his “roommate”. In our other local parish, the priest openly dates a woman. I did not believe it when I heard about it, but it has been discussed by so many people who don’t even know each other. And again, they act as though it is no big deal. He’s good at what he does and plans to retire soon.

I did not have enough time to discern if this was where God was leading me. I regret that.

I would like to ask you if anyone has reproached the priest about his actions and how it reflects on the church community. Should not these things be addressed to a higher authority? Such actions can lead other faithful servants to come to the same conclusion and lose their faith altogether. If Catholics belonging to other parishes see this as reprehensible to the CC and community then this particular parish should be investigated. This is only my opinion.

As for your regret in not having enough time to discern; pray to the HS for this, perhaps you can do a Novena to the Holy Spirit? Pray earnestly, and do not look for food that corrupts but that which is from Heaven…EUCHARIST.

 

[Randy_Carson]

I’m attending membership class for a non-denom church tonight. I’ve been attending for the last 6 months and just love it there. I am finally being fed spiritually again. (Catholic for 3 years)

From Steve Ray’s Blog today:

“Joshua Betancourt, welcome home! One of my Baylor philosophy PhD students brought to my attention today that Norman Geisler’s co-author of Is Rome the True Church? (Crossway Books, 2008), Joshua Betancourt, has converted to Catholicism! This has been confirmed by Doug Beaumont, a friend of Mr. Betancourt’s. Here’s what Doug writes on his blog (emphasis mine):

“I saw the website (www.catholicscomehome.org). This represents a fairly major move going on in this generation. There are books, TV shows, websites, etc. all focused on those who have left and returned to the RC church. There are also Protestants converting to Roman Catholicism.

“One chapter in the book Is Rome the True Church? is dedicated to why this is happening. Interestingly, the book’s co-author, a friend of mine named Joshua Betancourt, converted to Roman Catholicism shortly after the book was published! Nor is he the only one. I know several people, whose minds I highly respect, who have made the same decision (Francis Beckwith, J. Budziszewski, to name some famous recent converts). Of course, the opposite is happening too – lots of RC’s are converting to some form of Protestant-Evangelicalism.”

catholic-convert.com/wp-content/uploads/upon-this-rock-300x300.jpgYes, there are Catholics leaving for the Protestant churches, but as I state elsewhere there are notable Protestants converting to Catholicism, but no intellectuals or notable Catholics leaving for Protestantism. Even Protestants are willing to admit this: Evangelical writer Riddlebarger admits that “While evangelicalism is growing numerically, apparently there are not as many notable Roman Catholics becoming evangelicals as vice-versa” (Roman Catholicism, hostile to the Catholic Church, ed. John Armstrong [Chicago: Moody Press, 1994], 240). He fails to mention any actual “notable Catholics” leaving to become Evangelicals since I think he would be hard pressed to come up with a list. But a list of notable Protestants converting to Catholicism is as long as your arm. Many Evangelicals are alarmed.

I think the majority of Catholics leaving Rome for Evangelical groups is mainly due to the fact that it is more difficult being a Catholic in some ways. The moral standards are higher regarding divorce and remarriage, abortion, contraception, etc. Of course many Catholics remain and violate Catholic morality, but many choose a looser lifestyle and jump ship. In other words, many people leave the Catholic Church for reasons “below the belt” and then make up theological reasons for their departure such as “I don’t believe the Pope is biblical and now I believe in the Bible alone.” What this really means is “I want the freedom to decide for myself and I don’t want an organization telling me what to do. It is between me and God.”

Of course many others leave to find more entertainment, goods and services for their kids, or some preacher who teaches the Bible the way desired, or moral code that fits “me.” This is an American entertainment mentality — what can God do for me? I want to be fed? I want a church that has lots of good music, stuff for my kids, excitement, etc. The Catholic Church has never seen itself as an entertainment center. It is here to serve God. Mass is not about “me and my kids” having a good time on Sunday. it is about worshiping God in the way God prescribes.

catholic-convert.com/2010/01/12/another-convert-to-the-catholic-church/

 

[Good_Fella]

I did not see anything about seven sacraments in Acts 1. Acts 1 was Apostle replacement implemented by God in Acts 1, not the Apostles. Can you show me this in Scripture because I am totally missing something or is this part of “sacred teaching” by the Catholic church and if that is true, then can you provide a source for me to learn? Thanks.

My pleasure. I wished to emphasize that those who were ordained by the apostles weren’t commissioned only to preach the Gospel, but to administer and celebrate the sacraments in the liturgy of the Church.

1. Baptism

“Now, why delay? Get up and have yourself baptized and your sins washed away, calling upon his name.”
Acts 22, 16

1. Reconciliation

And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you reatain are retained.”
John 20, 23

1. The Holy Eucharist

The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? Because the loaf of bread is one we, though many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf. Look at Israel according to the flesh; are not those who eat the sacrifices participating in the altar?
1 Corinthians 10, 16-18

1. Confirmation

When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.
Acts 19, 5-6

1. Holy Matrimony

Thus a married woman is bound by law to her living husband; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law in respect to her husband. Consequently, while her husband is alive she will be called an adultress if she consorts with another man. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and she is not an adultress if she consorts with another man.
Romans 7, 2-3

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law.”
Matthew 5, 17

1. Holy Orders

They presented these men to the apostles who prayed and laid hands on them.
Acts 6, 6

1. Annointing of the Sick

Is anyone among you sick? He should summon the presbyters of the church, and they should pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord, and the prayer of faith will save the sick person, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed any sins, he will be forgiven.
James 5, 14-15

Peter and the Apostles received their authority to ordain their successors from the Father through the Son. This authority is transferrable. Jesus himself said that he does nothing, which includes the commission of the Twelve, on his own authority (Jn 8:28). Neither did the apostles.

Keep watch over yourselves and over the whole flock of which the Holy Spirit has appointed you overseers, in which you tend the church of God that he acquired with his own blood.
Acts 20, 28

PAX :heaven:

 

[LindaSK]

My pleasure. I wished to emphasize that those who were ordained by the apostles weren’t commissioned only to preach the Gospel, but to administer and celebrate the sacraments in the liturgy of the Church.

1. Baptism

“Now, why delay? Get up and have yourself baptized and your sins washed away, calling upon his name.”
Acts 22, 16

1. Reconciliation

And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you reatain are retained.”
John 20, 23

1. The Holy Eucharist

The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? Because the loaf of bread is one we, though many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf. Look at Israel according to the flesh; are not those who eat the sacrifices participating in the altar?
1 Corinthians 10, 16-18

1. Confirmation

When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.
Acts 19, 5-6

1. Holy Matrimony

Thus a married woman is bound by law to her living husband; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law in respect to her husband. Consequently, while her husband is alive she will be called an adultress if she consorts with another man. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and she is not an adultress if she consorts with another man.
Romans 7, 2-3

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law.”
Matthew 5, 17

1. Holy Orders

They presented these men to the apostles who prayed and laid hands on them.
Acts 6, 6

1. Annointing of the Sick

Is anyone among you sick? He should summon the presbyters of the church, and they should pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord, and the prayer of faith will save the sick person, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed any sins, he will be forgiven.
James 5, 14-15

Peter and the Apostles received their authority to ordain their successors from the Father through the Son. This authority is transferrable. Jesus himself said that he does nothing, which includes the commission of the Twelve, on his own authority (Jn 8:28). Neither did the apostles.

Keep watch over yourselves and over the whole flock of which the Holy Spirit has appointed you overseers, in which you tend the church of God that he acquired with his own blood.
Acts 20, 28

PAX :heaven:

We are going through the Sacraments in RCIA now, as many may be. Thank you for this!

My favorite passage regarding baptism is from The Great Commission - Matthew 28:19
“Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit” This unites all Christians. From the Nicene Creed, “We believe in one baptism…”

 

[Randy_Carson]

Sad that for so many years Catholics did not receive the full meal.

This is incorrect. Jesus is fully present - body, blood, soul and divinity - in the host, and He is fully present - body, blood, soul and divinity - in the chalice. This is supported clearly by scripture.

Thus, when you receive communion under one species, you have received all there is. Receiving under both species has great symbolic value, but nothing is missed if you do not.

 

[jlhargus]

From Steve Ray’s Blog today:

“Joshua Betancourt, welcome home! One of my Baylor philosophy PhD students brought to my attention today that Norman Geisler’s co-author of Is Rome the True Church? (Crossway Books, 2008), Joshua Betancourt, has converted to Catholicism! This has been confirmed by Doug Beaumont, a friend of Mr. Betancourt’s. Here’s what Doug writes on his blog (emphasis mine):

“I saw the website (www.catholicscomehome.org). This represents a fairly major move going on in this generation. There are books, TV shows, websites, etc. all focused on those who have left and returned to the RC church. There are also Protestants converting to Roman Catholicism.

“One chapter in the book Is Rome the True Church? is dedicated to why this is happening. Interestingly, the book’s co-author, a friend of mine named Joshua Betancourt, converted to Roman Catholicism shortly after the book was published! Nor is he the only one. I know several people, whose minds I highly respect, who have made the same decision (Francis Beckwith, J. Budziszewski, to name some famous recent converts). Of course, the opposite is happening too – lots of RC’s are converting to some form of Protestant-Evangelicalism.”

catholic-convert.com/wp-content/uploads/upon-this-rock-300x300.jpgYes, there are Catholics leaving for the Protestant churches, but as I state elsewhere there are notable Protestants converting to Catholicism, but no intellectuals or notable Catholics leaving for Protestantism. Even Protestants are willing to admit this: Evangelical writer Riddlebarger admits that “While evangelicalism is growing numerically, apparently there are not as many notable Roman Catholics becoming evangelicals as vice-versa” (Roman Catholicism, hostile to the Catholic Church, ed. John Armstrong [Chicago: Moody Press, 1994], 240). He fails to mention any actual “notable Catholics” leaving to become Evangelicals since I think he would be hard pressed to come up with a list. But a list of notable Protestants converting to Catholicism is as long as your arm. Many Evangelicals are alarmed.

I think the majority of Catholics leaving Rome for Evangelical groups is mainly due to the fact that it is more difficult being a Catholic in some ways. The moral standards are higher regarding divorce and remarriage, abortion, contraception, etc. Of course many Catholics remain and violate Catholic morality, but many choose a looser lifestyle and jump ship. In other words, many people leave the Catholic Church for reasons “below the belt” and then make up theological reasons for their departure such as “I don’t believe the Pope is biblical and now I believe in the Bible alone.” What this really means is “I want the freedom to decide for myself and I don’t want an organization telling me what to do. It is between me and God.”

Of course many others leave to find more entertainment, goods and services for their kids, or some preacher who teaches the Bible the way desired, or moral code that fits “me.” This is an American entertainment mentality — what can God do for me? I want to be fed? I want a church that has lots of good music, stuff for my kids, excitement, etc. The Catholic Church has never seen itself as an entertainment center. It is here to serve God. Mass is not about “me and my kids” having a good time on Sunday. it is about worshiping God in the way God prescribes.

catholic-convert.com/2010/01/12/another-convert-to-the-catholic-church/

JL: I would just add, most Catholics who go into Protestantism are those who do not know thier faith or scripture. Most Protestants who come into the Church do know their old faith and scripture.

 

[crazzeto]

JL: I would just add, most Catholics who go into Protestantism are those who do not know thier faith or scripture. Most Protestants who come into the Church do know their old faith and scripture.

That or they are among those who buy in to the error of Pluralism:

“Well the Catholic Church doesn’t support birth control, but I do! So I’m going to convert to this Evalgelical Church down the street, which is more in line with my views on Birth Control”.

There is only one God, with one moral law which applies to all Christian’s, unequal only in culpability in so far as their own personal understanding of the moral law. That is to say, someone born and raised protistant who was told by their pastor all their lives that BC is just fine will be less culpable than a Catholic who violates this. A Catholic who actually leaves the Church because they reject the moral teaching is actually more culpable.

 

[Justin_Mee]

JL: I would just add, most Catholics who go into Protestantism are those who do not know their faith or scripture. Most Protestants who come into the Church do know their old faith and scripture.

I’m in RCIA. In my personal experience in 30 years of protesting, I think you are correct. In 30 years I would often think that I actually knew little of God or my faith (now we are praying; now we are singing hymns; now we are eating crackers and grape juice in ‘rememberance’; now we are listening to the preacher). Most of the times these thoughts would come to me in the shower ( I don’t know why I always thought of God and my personal relationship with Him in the shower, but it’s true). After decades of showers I finally decided that I had to do something or my soul was lost. I started to read about Catholicism. I started to visit Catholic churches. It was as if God had his hand firmly in the middle of my back. I visited St. Peter’s in Rome and that was it. Now, for the first time, I think I actually know something about God. Now I sing in the shower. But I sure have a lot to learn.

 

[jlhargus]

I did not see anything about seven sacraments in Acts 1. Acts 1 was Apostle replacement implemented by God in Acts 1, not the Apostles. Can you show me this in Scripture because I am totally missing something or is this part of “sacred teaching” by the Catholic church and if that is true, then can you provide a source for me to learn? Thanks.

The seven sacraments are the fruit of the tree of life, the cross. Mt 8:17 He took our infirmities and bore our diseases. Paul states in 1Cor 4:1 This is how one should regard us as servants of Christ and STEWARDS OF THE MYSTERIES OF GOD. The Sacraments or mysteries in English are part of those mysteries, now made known through the Gospel. Instituted by Christ, and performed with the intention of doing as Christ willed, they are signs, words and actions, by the power of Christ and action of the Holy Spirit, confer the GRACE signified. Or it is an outward, material sign that points to and inward, spiritual reality. [the CCC says. As fire transforms into itself what it touches, so the Holy Spirit transforms into the life of the Spirit, through the sacraments whomever he touches.]

The SACRAMENT OF HOLY ORDERS, ordination, by laying of hands gives the GIFT of the Holy Spirit to enable an ordained minister to fulfill his mission. [2 TIM 1:6 …stir up the GIFT OF GOD IN YOU BY THE PUTTING ON OF MY HANDS 7 GOD HAS GIVEN US the SPIRIT OF POWER. [2Tm4:2 PREACH THE WORD; be prepared in season and out of season; CORRECT, REBUKE and ENCOURAGE—WITH great patience and CAREFUL INSTRUCTION]

Titus 1:5 For this I left you in Crete that you should set in order …and ORDAIN ELDERS in EVERY CITY AS I APPOINTED YOU. Titus1:7 For A BISHOP must be blameless, as THE STEWARD OF GOD; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; 8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; 9 HOLDING FAST THE FAITHFUL WORD AS HE HATH BEEN TAUGHT, that he may be able BY SOUND DOCTRINE both TO EXHORT and TO CONVINCE the gainsayers.

[Titus2:15 THESE, then, are the THINGS YOU SHOULD TEACH. ENCOURAGE and REBUKE WITH ALL AUTHORITY. Do not let anyone despise you.] Acts 14:23 when they had ORDAINED elders IN EVERY CHURCH and prayed with fasting they commended them to the Lord on whom they believed. Acts 20:28 Take heed of yourself, and the flock over which the HOLY SPIRIT has MADE you OVERSEERS TO FEED THE CHURCH OF GOD purchased with his own blood, 1TIM 5:17 Let the elders that RULE well be counted worthy of DOUBLE HONOUR especially they who labour in the WORD AND DOCTRINE.

1 Tin 4:13 Till I come attend to READING to EXHORTATION to DOCTRINE 14 Do not neglect THE GIFT in you GIVEN you by prophecy WITH THE LAYING ON OF the HANDS of the presbytery 16 TAKE HEED to yourself TO THE DOCTRINE continue in them for in doing this you shalt both SAVE yourself and THOSE WHO HEAR YOU.]

I can’t find a VALID minister in the New Covenant who was not ordained and SENT directly by Christ including Paul, or SENT by laying on of hands in the unbroken apostolic line, either by an apostle or one they ordained. The Bishops of the world in union with the Bishop of Rome (the Pope) make up the Magisterium (that teaching authority sent by Christ Mt28:16-20 GO TEACH ALL NATIONS I AM WITH YOU TILL THE END). Their duty is to teach, sanctify and govern. Teach the Word of God, faith and morals, what we must believe and moral standards. Sanctify by preaching the Word of God and administering the sacraments, govern the Church for good order, Jn 17:21 THAT THEY MAY BE ONE as you Father are in me and I in you that they also may be one in us THAT THE WORLD MAY BELIEVE you SENT ME

 

[jlhargus]

I’m in RCIA. In my personal experience in 30 years of protesting, I think you are correct. In 30 years I would often think that I actually knew little of God or my faith (now we are praying; now we are singing hymns; now we are eating crackers and grape juice in ‘rememberance’; now we are listening to the preacher). Most of the times these thoughts would come to me in the shower ( I don’t know why I always thought of God and my personal relationship with Him in the shower, but it’s true). After decades of showers I finally decided that I had to do something or my soul was lost. I started to read about Catholicism. I started to visit Catholic churches. It was as if God had his hand firmly in the middle of my back. I visited St. Peter’s in Rome and that was it. Now, for the first time, I think I actually know something about God. Now I sing in the shower. But I sure have a lot to learn.

JL: Welcome and thanks for your post I enjoyed reading it, I too am a convert many years ago. I think in the shower we are alone with out thoughts, no TV, phone, music, conversation etc…

 

[Janet1983]

JL: I would just add, most Catholics who go into Protestantism are those who do not know thier faith or scripture. Most Protestants who come into the Church do know their old faith and scripture.

Not necessarily. There are actually Catholics who go into Protestantism (and vice versa) out of a sincere love for the Lord. (I am not saying that if you love the Lord, you have to leave.)
I only serve Him and Him alone and that is why I left. I do not believe the teachings of the CC (anymore) and I therefore cannot subject myself to them.
Just being not catechized well is not the reason for most. I was raised in a very Catholic environment starting with a Catholic daycare over a Catholic kindergarten, to a Catholic elementary school and religious education classes in middle school and high school. I went to all sacraments (except for Marriage, Holy Orders, and Anointing of the Sick) and I even taught Confirmation classes in my village. I disagree that leaving the CC necessarily constitutes a lack of knowledge.

And I am also sure that I did not leave because it is easier on the flesh… One does not have to be Catholic to agree with certain moral standards. When I left I was 23, single and a virgin (well now I am married) and leaving the CC did not lead to promiscuity, use of artificial birth control or abortion. That was certainly not my prime motivation:

That or they are among those who buy in to the error of Pluralism:

“Well the Catholic Church doesn’t support birth control, but I do! So I’m going to convert to this Evalgelical Church down the street, which is more in line with my views on Birth Control”.

There is only one God, with one moral law which applies to all Christian’s, unequal only in culpability in so far as their own personal understanding of the moral law. That is to say, someone born and raised protistant who was told by their pastor all their lives that BC is just fine will be less culpable than a Catholic who violates this. A Catholic who actually leaves the Church because they reject the moral teaching is actually more culpable.

I have heard this argument over and over again, claiming that those who leave the Catholic Church do so because it is easier on the flesh or because of selfishness. I agree that there might be instances in which that is true, but for the most cases this would not be true. Someone who does believe everything else and just excludes the Catholic teaching on certain morals will not leave the CC over that. Why should he forsake everything else for that reason? Just reading in this forum gives a clear picture… There are people here who ask for help because they have practicing homosexuals in their parish and don’t know how to handle the situation. If moral theology was a main factor in leaving why would these scenarios be possible? I agree that it might be the one thing that brings the whole faith down and brings it over the edge, but I disagree that this should be the only thing.

I am not trying to attack either one of you. I am just trying to help you see that not every former Catholic fits into a scheme of “not catechized” , “immoral” or “selfish desires”

I for my part am dead to myself and alive in Jesus Christ. He is my Lord and my Master. I do not serve myself, because He is my only focus. He is my life and He is my light.

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you.
In Him,
Janet

 

[Sword_Brethren]

.

You know, before Luther came along, there wasn’t the uniform faith in the CC that you all think existed when it was the only game in town. If there was, there wouldn’t have been all the councils.

.

Before the protestant revolt there was more unity than after the revolt. There have allways been bad Catholics preaching a different Gospel but the protestant revolution brought the greatest disunity ever.

 

[jlhargus]

That or they are among those who buy in to the error of Pluralism:

“Well the Catholic Church doesn’t support birth control, but I do! So I’m going to convert to this Evalgelical Church down the street, which is more in line with my views on Birth Control”.

There is only one God, with one moral law which applies to all Christian’s, unequal only in culpability in so far as their own personal understanding of the moral law. That is to say, someone born and raised protistant who was told by their pastor all their lives that BC is just fine will be less culpable than a Catholic who violates this. A Catholic who actually leaves the Church because they reject the moral teaching is actually more culpable.

JL: I agree, yet I think it comes from not knowing or understanding their faith.

 

[Sword_Brethren]

Having Jesus that close by faith is good enough for me. In fact it doesn’t get any better than that ever.

It gets better than that when one receives His Body,Blood, Soul and Divinity in Holy Communion.

 

[iamrefreshed]

Nobody is making a fuss over me, believe me.

All of the Catholics within this parish I spoke to about my concern with the worship leader/music director all said they knew about it, but forgave it because he is so talented. And he is.

The priest goes to events in the community with this gentleman and his “roommate”. In our other local parish, the priest openly dates a woman. I did not believe it when I heard about it, but it has been discussed by so many people who don’t even know each other. And again, they act as though it is no big deal. He’s good at what he does and plans to retire soon.

I did not have enough time to discern if this was where God was leading me. I regret that.

Frankly, I don’t believe this.

Sounds like gossip to me. Let’s face it, most people love to gossip.