Revelations...are we ready...

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Hi:

This is for the last 3-4 posts. My understanding of the beast, wild beast and 10 horns are stated in the beginning on my post for the individual who was curious. The question on why Thomas said “My Lord and My God”, My Lord was directed towards Jesus and My God was directed to God, sort of if you were so shocked by something you said 'Oh my God".

The comparison with the rejection of Jesus is not meant to compare me (I am a sinner like you because my seed is from Adam and not the Holy Spirit), but rather the attitude of false religion today and the lack of christian brotherly love which was Jesus’ main commandment. I have tried answering all the questions and sorry if I missed any.

Remember that the sign of true religion and true christians is portraying true brotherly love and not kicking and spitting on someone when they are down. Would that make Jesus happy? Blessings, tommy
 
you still did NOT answer the question. Who/what is the beast of Revelation as noted in by Revelations ??? AND why do JW think this is so, ?

And we disagree that when Thomas, said "My Lord and My God:, that this refers to two different beings. That does not make sense.

Also saint though out the ages have already confirmed that Jesus and the Father are One in union with the Holy Spirit. NO visionary has claimed other wise. The Trinity as the Church teaches has been verified as such by each and every visionary of note.

IF the doctrine were incorrect, at least one would have claimed otherwise.
 
Your first few post are virtually unreadable, buried in the text is the answer. but no one can read something that has no paragraphs and that runs on for 4 posts.
 
Remember that the sign of true religion and true christians is portraying true brotherly love and not kicking and spitting on someone when they are down.
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So, how do you treat the disfellowshipped from your kingdom hall? You certainly don’t seem like the “kicking and spitting” type but those folks are definetly “down”.
I doubt that shunning a person and driving him from your presence would make Jesus particularly happy either.
 
John 14:28 “You heard me say: I am going away and shall return”. “If you loved me you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I”. Doesn’t Jesus say that the Father is greater than I? Satan has found a way through his trickery to take prasie away from God. Peace and Love, tommy
 
As far as being disfellowshipped, as I have stated before, it keeps the congregation clean, if you repent you can get back in. I would trust a clean congregation more than one that permits molestors in. Yes, my posts are long, sort of like a Roman manuscript, but read closely the bit about the meaning about Revelations now that you have found where it is. God Bless, tommy
 
tommy4321,

Something tells me you’re not going to be the JW that finally gets a prophecy right…
 
What is the Catholic view in Rev. of:

a) The beast

b) the wild beast

c) babylon the great

d) What do all ten horns represent?
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The beast: a symbol of all corrupted political power. You see this even today in our very own government when the courts rule, and the people say (as the people in the Book of Revelation) “who can fight against it?” So, the beast to a Catholic refers to any corrupt government or state that puts itself above God and the term “beast” refers also to the spiritual force which is behind this political corruption.

The wild beast: I suppose you are talking about the second beast mentioned in Revelation 13:11-18. Well, the second beast comes from the earth as opposed to the first beast who comes from the sea.(The sea brings forth the gentile beasts, the earth refers to a beast within the religious hierarchy of the Jews.) The second beast also mimics the lamb (the lamb stands as though slain, the beast receives a mortal wound but recovers; God enthrones the Lamb, the dragon enthrones the beast; those who worship the Lamb receive His mark on their foreheads, those who worship the beast receive the mark of the beast), so therefore the second beast would be symbolic of a corrupt religious institution which draws its power from the first beast or a corrupted political power. In other words, in the time of Christ, the first beast would be the Caesars who demanded worship, something reserved for God alone, and the second beast would have been the corrupted priesthood of first century Judea which rejected Jesus, the Lamb, and worshipped Caesar (“We have no king but Caesar!”). The second beast is a corrupt religious institution which bears witness to the corrupt secular institution and its desire for power. (These are generic terms, I know, but you wanted to know what a Catholic thinks.)

Babylon the Great: It could refer to Rome in the book of Revelation, yet it could very well refer to Jerusalem. To me, Babylon refers to the great city which houses the beast (the corrupt government and religious institutions). This could be any city at any time…Washington, Berlin, Baghdad, Moscow…you name it.

All ten horns: Symbols of power and strength. For example: 1 Samuel 2:1 where Hannah prays, “My heart exults in the Lord, my horn is exalted in my God. I have swallowed up my enemies. I rejoice in my victory.”

So how to bring it all together? The enemy of Christ is a human manifestation of a spiritual reality. It is a corrupted secular government (beast #1) which functions as a religious one as well (beast #2) and is defended by a powerful (the horns) army of people (Babylon the Great) out to wage war on anyone who resists it by supporting Jesus and His Church. But we all know who wins each battle, because as Fr. John Corapi says, “We have the script.”
 
Thanks for the thoughtful response, how do you see this applying to todays government/nation if at all?
 
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tommy4321:
Thanks for the thoughtful response, how do you see this applying to todays government/nation if at all?
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Which nation? Which government? It all depends. It certainly would apply to communism which is a philosophy whereby the state becomes all powerful and attempts to usurp God’s prerogative of *latria *or worship (adoration) by placing itself above God. It is all relative. The Book of Revelation to Catholics reaffirms the majesty and authority of the Lord over the “powers and principalities.” The Book of Revelation speaks of a specific time (the first century), however, it is timeless in that it speaks of succeeding generations who fall prey to the same corruption which can only be defeated by the freedom given by Christ through the Church.
 
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WBB:
Which nation? Which government? It all depends. It certainly would apply to communism which is a philosophy whereby the state becomes all powerful and attempts to usurp God’s prerogative of *latria *or worship (adoration) by placing itself above God. It is all relative. The Book of Revelation to Catholics reaffirms the majesty and authority of the Lord over the “powers and principalities.” The Book of Revelation speaks of a specific time (the first century), however, it is timeless in that it speaks of succeeding generations who fall prey to the same corruption which can only be defeated by the freedom given by Christ through the Church.
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Specifically, how would Revelations apply in todays world, including all specific governments (ours in the US and others), nations, religions, world leaders including political leadership and man? Also what government would God want us to be devoted to or would he be satisfied with devotion to him if it was exclusive devotion that was not part of a nation?
 
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tommy4321:
Specifically, how would Revelations apply in todays world, including all specific governments (ours in the US and others), nations, religions, world leaders including political leadership and man? Also what government would God want us to be devoted to or would he be satisfied with devotion to him if it was exclusive devotion that was not part of a nation?
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I told you in the above post how the Book of Revelation would apply in the world today in my example of communism. How would it apply to the US? I gave an example of our courts making decisions (prayer in schools, nativity scenes on public property) and people accepting them because of perceived power that cannot be overcome (Who can fight against it?). I don’t purport to think what government God would want us to be devoted to because I don’t feel it is relevant. It is perfectly acceptable to be supportive of a government so long as that government does not demand prerogatives that are reserved for God alone, i.e. worship/adoration. If a government required me to not worship God and put the state above God, then I would have to follow my conscience and refuse.
 
Apparently your interpretation of either the Church or the government fitting the Beast of Revelation does not fit.

The only ones that come close are the Communist regimes and dictatorships, and so far none of those appear to have 7 heads and 10 horns.
 
Since communism was the threat in the 60’s, and the Berlin wall has come down todays issues are different. Would you say that things are better today than perhaps 20 years ago? Or, are times getting worse? Then, would you agree that perhaps the great tribulation may be a great war between the anglo-american world and the muslim world or maybe it would relate to communism?

Just curious to see your take on the great tribulation and how it may tie to Revelations relating to future events as opposed to past events with scriptual backing. Have a great day and enjoyed reading your posts, tommy.
 
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tommy4321:
Since communism was the threat in the 60’s, and the Berlin wall has come down todays issues are different. Would you say that things are better today than perhaps 20 years ago? Or, are times getting worse? Then, would you agree that perhaps the great tribulation may be a great war between the anglo-american world and the muslim world or maybe it would relate to communism?

Just curious to see your take on the great tribulation and how it may tie to Revelations relating to future events as opposed to past events with scriptual backing. Have a great day and enjoyed reading your posts, tommy.
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I don’t have a take on the great tribulation other than to say it will be a lot of suffering. When it will happen or who the main players will be is irrelevant to me. My role is to focus on Christ. Period. I don’t speculate on who is saved, who is condemned, etc, or any specifics because regardless, I am called to be faithful to Christ because if I am faithful to Him, who and when won’t really come into play.
 
In the end it really doesn’t matter if we are in the end times or not. All we need to do is keep doing the things we have been acustomed of doing.
 
Tommy,

Are you ever going to answer Byzcatholic’s question or are you going to evade it forever. Maybe you’ll just make believe he never asked it? If you ignore it will it go away?

If you will not answer his question would you at least share why?
 
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ByzCath:
Tommy,
You want us to respond to you so I hope you will respond to me. This will be the third time I have asked you this.

You say above that “we only need what is in the Book.”

Okay, where did the Book come from?

What did the Early Church (or Christains if you wish) do the first couple of centuries when there was no Book?
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I am sorry I am trying to answer all questions, but you guys are energy bunnies here with lots and I am only one here on this side of the camp here. There must be some interest in this Revelations subject as there has been 800 hits to this post so far.

OK, I think this is the question from a few weeks ago and here is the answer. The Bible is inspired and came from God, not Catholics. Easy answer. Thats right all the answers are in one book called the Bible, uno the one that says in John 14:28 that Jesus said his Father is superior to him. How do you answer this one since that goes against the Trinity that a council in the second century created to confuse man through satan and take away praise from God? We only need one book, the Bible. Now explain John 14:28 when Jesus said that his Father was superior to him. Also I would respond to the myriad of questions sooner if they don’t ban me. This part of the site is for contrasting views, which mine are and I am polite, but have contrasting views and have taken punches and really don’t mind too much because I stand firm in my beliefs as a Bible student in the process of converting. God Bless, tommy

Now answer my question about what Jesus meant that his Father is superior to him?
 
PS. early Christians went off of the old testament which Jesus quoted from.
 
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tommy4321:
I am sorry I am trying to answer all questions, but you guys are energy bunnies here with lots and I am only one here on this side of the camp here. There must be some interest in this Revelations subject as there has been 800 hits to this post so far.

OK, I think this is the question from a few weeks ago and here is the answer. The Bible is inspired and came from God, not Catholics. Easy answer. Thats right all the answers are in one book called the Bible, uno the one that says in John 14:28 that Jesus said his Father is superior to him. How do you answer this one since that goes against the Trinity that a council in the second century created to confuse man through satan and take away praise from God? We only need one book, the Bible. Now explain John 14:28 when Jesus said that his Father was superior to him. Also I would respond to the myriad of questions sooner if they don’t ban me. This part of the site is for contrasting views, which mine are and I am polite, but have contrasting views and have taken punches and really don’t mind too much because I stand firm in my beliefs as a Bible student in the process of converting. God Bless, tommy

Now answer my question about what Jesus meant that his Father is superior to him?
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Not good enough Tommy. Did God write it? Did he deliver it via FedEx? Slip it under someone’s pillow?

The question was asked and you are still avoiding it. Do you want it answered for you if you don’t know the answer?
 
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