Revelations...are we ready...

[tommy4321]

TeriGator:

Jehovah is a transliteration (not alliteration, as I typo’d previously), and a poor substitute for His true name. That does not change the fact that His chosen people, the Jews, worshipped Him without speaking the name aloud and without writing the full name with vowels. They knew exactly who they were worshipping, and so do we. We have never removed His name from scripture, nor substituted the name of another god in His place. Yahweh, the God of the Jews, the God of the Old Testament, is our true God.

Your argument is based on smoke, I’m afraid. Nicely triumphalist, however.

Incidentally, if I fail to respond to further posts, it’s not because I concede defeat. It’s simply that I am still in the middle of pharmacy rotations and have very little free time these days. I’m off to bed now.

This is pretty cool, an acknowledgment that Yahweh, the God of the Jews, the God of the Old Testament, one true God, God of Isreal, God Almighty is the God being worshipped. Then is Jesus seperate from the true God since he prayed to his Father and rose to his Father saying he was going to Him. Jesus said in John 14:28 that his Father is greater (superior in other translations) them him?

The reason I ask is that I found some Catholic acknowledge that God and Jesus are seperate (in union or agreement) and yet I have heard from others they are the same. This is important in how we pray and worship as Jesus said the only way of getting heard by the Father was through him, but I am curious if Catholics would pray to Jesus or to God through Jesus.

I hope your pharmacy rotations go well. I work with County workers at a local hospital taking care of one of their employee benefits programs. take care, tommy

 

[WBB]

tommy4321:

This is pretty cool, an acknowledgment that Yahweh, the God of the Jews, the God of the Old Testament, one true God, God of Isreal, God Almighty is the God being worshipped. Then is Jesus seperate from the true God since he prayed to his Father and rose to his Father saying he was going to Him. Jesus said in John 14:28 that his Father is greater (superior in other translations) them him?

The reason I ask is that I found some Catholic acknowledge that God and Jesus are seperate (in union or agreement) and yet I have heard from others they are the same. This is important in how we pray and worship as Jesus said the only way of getting heard by the Father was through him, but I am curious if Catholics would pray to Jesus or to God through Jesus.

Perhaps the problem is when people say that the Father and the Son are “separate”. They are inseparable. However, they are distinct persons fully united in love. When one person of the Holy Trinity is present, the others are there as well, so when you pray to Jesus, you are praying to the Father and the Holy Spirit as well. It is a difficult concept, and it is no wonder that it is rejected by some. The Jehovah’s Witnesses are the modern day equivalent to the followers of Arius who had the same questions/issues that you do. However, the Apostolic Tradition which has been taught since the beginning is that Jesus is fully God and fully man, one in being with the Father.

Oh, and I told you what Jesus meant when he said that the Father is greater than He.

 

[tommy4321]

WBB:

Perhaps the problem is when people say that the Father and the Son are “separate”. They are inseparable. However, they are distinct persons fully united in love. When one person of the Holy Trinity is present, the others are there as well, so when you pray to Jesus, you are praying to the Father and the Holy Spirit as well. It is a difficult concept, and it is no wonder that it is rejected by some. The Jehovah’s Witnesses are the modern day equivalent to the followers of Arius who had the same questions/issues that you do. However, the Apostolic Tradition which has been taught since the beginning is that Jesus is fully God and fully man, one in being with the Father.

Oh, and I told you what Jesus meant when he said that the Father is greater than He.

Let me see if I understand this and will repeat for the sake of understanding. When somesome prays to Jesus even though it is stated above that they are two distinct persons, it is the same as praying directly to Jesus’ Father, God? I believe I read a quote in John saying that Jesus said that no one can get to his Father without going through him (Jesus). For example at the end of prayer we say Amen, which more or less means that we are asking that our prayer to God is heard through a Man, Jesus Christ? Or another example in prayer we would say we ask this to you oh Lord through your Son Jesus Christ.

It is also said here that they are two seperate “persons”, I have understood that Jesus was a “person” when he was a human and God is not a person but an active force that all things happen through as our grand creator? Peace, tommy

 

[wcknight]

Tommy, the problem here is that you are trying to determine what the nature of the Trinity is and no one here can fully explain that to you, since it is a sacred mystery.

In fact there is no explanation for it, and no one can give you a definitive definition for the Trinity. So when you say distinct and we say distinct we do NOT have the same interpretation of distinct. There is only One God, BUT we believe He has 3 persons or manifestations, you may think of it as personalities, but that would not be true either, God is not schizophrenic, although if someone reads the OT and then reads the NT, they may well think He is.

When we pray to Jesus, we are praying to God, because Jesus IS God.

In scriptures, we believe God is revealed as God the Father, God, the Son as Jesus Christ, and God the Holy Spirit. And although Jesus often speaks as though there are 2 “others”, His Father, and the Spirit, we all believe that they are one and the same God.
You will be going around in circles trying to get an answer because there is no answer.

 

[WBB]

tommy4321:

Let me see if I understand this and will repeat for the sake of understanding. When somesome prays to Jesus even though it is stated above that they are two distinct persons, it is the same as praying directly to Jesus’ Father, God? I believe I read a quote in John saying that Jesus said that no one can get to his Father without going through him (Jesus). For example at the end of prayer we say Amen, which more or less means that we are asking that our prayer to God is heard through a Man, Jesus Christ? Or another example in prayer we would say we ask this to you oh Lord through your Son Jesus Christ.

It is also said here that they are two seperate “persons”, I have understood that Jesus was a “person” when he was a human and God is not a person but an active force that all things happen through as our grand creator? Peace, tommy

You asked for the Catholic understanding. No one is saying that you have to believe it, that is up to you. God is not an active force. God is a communion of persons united in love. It is from this communion of persons that all things exist.

When we say “Amen” at the end of the prayer, it is the equivalent of us saying, “Ditto.” In other words, “Amen” is a way of the congregation affirming that they are in agreement with the prayer said by the priest. It is really not necessary to close a prayer said privately with “Amen” but most of us do, and I doubt God really minds.

Would you say that when we pray to Jesus, we don’t pray to the Father? If not, then I would disagree with you. When we address our private prayer to the Father, we usually close with “through your Son, Jesus Christ.” When we address them to Jesus, this is not necessary because they are being said through him already.

When Jesus says in John’s Gospel that “no one comes to the Father except through me”, Jesus is saying that all that is revealed by the Father and about the nature of God is revealed through Jesus, and he is therefore the path to knowing the Truth. It is necessary to receive the teachings of Christ in order to know the Father. Notice, elsewhere in John’s Gospel, Jesus says, “He who has seen me has seen the Father,” and “the Father and I are one.” You seem to ignore these statements to support your case, and you focus on the statement “The Father is superior to me.” I, on the other hand, have given you the way that all of these statements can be reconciled rather than focusing only on one or two statements and disregarding the others.

Again, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not separate but distinct. You can tell a difference between the 3 persons, but they are all one.

 

[tommy4321]

wcknight:

Tommy, the problem here is that you are trying to determine what the nature of the Trinity is and no one here can fully explain that to you, since it is a sacred mystery.

In fact there is no explanation for it, and no one can give you a definitive definition for the Trinity. So when you say distinct and we say distinct we do NOT have the same interpretation of distinct. There is only One God, BUT we believe He has 3 persons or manifestations, you may think of it as personalities, but that would not be true either, God is not schizophrenic, although if someone reads the OT and then reads the NT, they may well think He is.

When we pray to Jesus, we are praying to God, because Jesus IS God.

In scriptures, we believe God is revealed as God the Father, God, the Son as Jesus Christ, and God the Holy Spirit. And although Jesus often speaks as though there are 2 “others”, His Father, and the Spirit, we all believe that they are one and the same God.
You will be going around in circles trying to get an answer because there is no answer.

Hello:

I respect the fact that the Trinity is sacret to Catholics and agree this debate will go in circles with the opposing views. I believe from my Bible readings that Jesus viewed his Father as seperate from him and that he asked that we give worship to his Father, but that is my opinion. Therefore in respect to your beliefs I will change the topic with a question.

Does Revelations tell us to do anything in our lives with regards to nation, political powers and organized religion? In other words, what are the prophecies in Revelations telling us? Thanks for your time in reading these posts. Sincerely, tommy

 

[WBB]

tommy4321:

Hello:

I respect the fact that the Trinity is sacret to Catholics and agree this debate will go in circles with the opposing views. I believe from my Bible readings that Jesus viewed his Father as seperate from him and that he asked that we give worship to his Father, but that is my opinion. Therefore in respect to your beliefs I will change the topic with a question.

Does Revelations tell us to do anything in our lives with regards to nation, political powers and organized religion? In other words, what are the prophecies in Revelations telling us? Thanks for your time in reading these posts. Sincerely, tommy

First, Jesus said “The Father and I are one.” I don’t know how you can read that and say that they are separate.

Second…I don’t feel the Book of Revelation tells us specifics related to our times, but speaks to us in terms that would allow us to recognize the enemy of Christ and the Church. The prophecies in the Book of Revelation tell us that at times the Church will undergo great suffering, but through perseverence in faith, the Church will triumph. The idea of organized religion and political powers has been answered prior posts by me. The organized religion of “the Beast” will be at war with the Church with the intent of devouring her. It is not my desire to point the finger at Islam or Judaism or Buddhism and say, “Look, the religion of the Beast!” because I don’t know that this is the case. The Book of Revelation tells me that if I keep my eyes focused on Christ, I will never be led astray.

 

[tommy4321]

WBB:

First, Jesus said “The Father and I are one.” I don’t know how you can read that and say that they are separate.

Second…I don’t feel the Book of Revelation tells us specifics related to our times, but speaks to us in terms that would allow us to recognize the enemy of Christ and the Church. The prophecies in the Book of Revelation tell us that at times the Church will undergo great suffering, but through perseverence in faith, the Church will triumph. The idea of organized religion and political powers has been answered prior posts by me. The organized religion of “the Beast” will be at war with the Church with the intent of devouring her. It is not my desire to point the finger at Islam or Judaism or Buddhism and say, “Look, the religion of the Beast!” because I don’t know that this is the case. The Book of Revelation tells me that if I keep my eyes focused on Christ, I will never be led astray.

I thought this too at one point, but have a differing view now. I have learned that the radical Islamic group support terrorism. But the mass of the Islamic group were opposed to 9/11, murder and that the attack on our country was not in line with the broader Islamic religious beliefs. That why I think the 10 horns tell us more of this prophecy. We have eight horns of prior political rulerships. Then we have the nineth which I believe is the current world power, which is in my opinion the anglo-american world dominator.

We saw in the prior eight world powers that it was always the strongest that eventually fell, Egypt, Greece and Italy for example. Then we have the 10th horn which is not really a government but whose head sprung from the others which is the United Nations.

Eventually the strongest world power (Anglo-American) calls war from the 10th head that sprung from the nineth head leading to the great war. This is the “wild beast” representing nation (united nation) that ultimatley causes the war. As a result the beast (mass of false religion) is ultimately driven out by Christ conquering Satan and all who still have evil inherited by Adam that would include groups using false idols, pagan beliefs (non-Godly), fornicators and the rest of the sinners in the world until we are left on a global scale with true worshipers of God and that is how I see Christ wins Satan in the end.

Those who have Satan as their God around the world and not so much country specific will return to dirt and true belivers of God will inherit the earth to live with the same conditional prospect that was given to Adam, which is everlasting life, what God intended for us here on earth under rulership of the 144,000 heavenly government made up of holy ones and priests under Jesus’ rulership. This is just what I believe and have learned and this is just an opinion as no one know all the details of Revelation. But I don’t believe it will be country or just one religion that falls as Satan has influences throughout the world and not just one section of the world. Peace and Love, tommy

 

[E.E.N.S]

Tommy, you should listen to the set entitled “The End Times: A Study of the Book of Revelation” by Scott Hahn, I believe you will find it full of great information.

Peace.

 

[Lillith]

tommy4321:

Hello:

I respect the fact that the Trinity is sacret to Catholics and agree this debate will go in circles with the opposing views. I believe from my Bible readings that Jesus viewed his Father as seperate from him and that he asked that we give worship to his Father, but that is my opinion. Therefore in respect to your beliefs I will change the topic with a question.

Hello Tommy…I’ve been following this thread, but you’ve had ample responses that I couldn’t add to…and so I didn’t…But.
Before you end the topic of the Holy Trinity with a respectful agree to disagree stand…I wanted to give you an analogy that might clear up our belief.

Think of a large body of water…some of that water gets vaporized and ends up in a cold climate to become ice…other portions of that body of water vaporizes at a warmer temperatures to become steam. But…they are still water.

Water, ice, and steam…all the same elements…still H2O…but in different states of being…

Lets’ say G-d the Father, of course would be the large body of water…Jesus the Ice…and the Holy Spirit the steam. Looking at it this way Jesus was correct when he said the Father is greater than me, because of the huge body of water, which was bigger than he…G-d broke of part of his being to be present on the Earth, because while Jesus was here on Earth G-d was still in Heaven…but they are still the same element…

 

[XAnglican]

ewtn.com/vcatalogue/index.asp?category=books

The reference above will lead you to EWTN and to various IGNATIUS STUDY guides of BIBLE books. They run about $10/book. I have just finished the study of Luke and the footnotes and commentaries are wonderful. I would say that it is an individual’s responsiblity to read and study the Bible using material approved by the Church. While the readings are on a three year cycle, not all verses are read. Just reading only the three primary readings for a given weekly Mass will not fully feed you. It may be necessary to read additional material PRIOR to attending Mass to more fully understand the message being given. One can never read or study too much.

Peace!

XAnglican

 

[tommy4321]

Lillith:

Hello Tommy…I’ve been following this thread, but you’ve had ample responses that I couldn’t add to…and so I didn’t…But.
Before you end the topic of the Holy Trinity with a respectful agree to disagree stand…I wanted to give you an analogy that might clear up our belief.

Think of a large body of water…some of that water gets vaporized and ends up in a cold climate to become ice…other portions of that body of water vaporizes at a warmer temperatures to become steam. But…they are still water.

Water, ice, and steam…all the same elements…still H2O…but in different states of being…

Lets’ say G-d the Father, of course would be the large body of water…Jesus the Ice…and the Holy Spirit the steam. Looking at it this way Jesus was correct when he said the Father is greater than me, because of the huge body of water, which was bigger than he…G-d broke of part of his being to be present on the Earth, because while Jesus was here on Earth G-d was still in Heaven…but they are still the same element…

Thanks for your thoughful response you are a very sweet person God Bless you. However, the climax of this post is stated on my last post…what do you guys think as Catholics of what is stated on the 10 horns in my lost post (there must be some disagreement???)…pretty heavy duty stuff huh???

 

[tommy4321]

Lillith:

Hello Tommy…I’ve been following this thread, but you’ve had ample responses that I couldn’t add to…and so I didn’t…But.
Before you end the topic of the Holy Trinity with a respectful agree to disagree stand…I wanted to give you an analogy that might clear up our belief.

Think of a large body of water…some of that water gets vaporized and ends up in a cold climate to become ice…other portions of that body of water vaporizes at a warmer temperatures to become steam. But…they are still water.

Water, ice, and steam…all the same elements…still H2O…but in different states of being…

Lets’ say G-d the Father, of course would be the large body of water…Jesus the Ice…and the Holy Spirit the steam. Looking at it this way Jesus was correct when he said the Father is greater than me, because of the huge body of water, which was bigger than he…G-d broke of part of his being to be present on the Earth, because while Jesus was here on Earth G-d was still in Heaven…but they are still the same element…

P.S. I completely respect the view of the Tinity and you put it so well with your story and visualization. Thanks… I know there are special people like you and others out there that l know must really love God, I know it because of your expression of love to Him…

However, I am really interested to see the opposing views of my last post and really want to see what views there may be on my theory on the 10 horns. These are the views I learned in the process of converting to a JW (not all the way there) that were awaking to me and have had a persona effect on my daily life.

Many thanks for your time and thoughtful response as I want to be respectful for your faith in the Trinity. Peace, tommy

 

[WBB]

tommy4321:

Thanks for your thoughful response you are a very sweet person God Bless you. However, the climax of this post is stated on my last post…what do you guys think as Catholics of what is stated on the 10 horns in my lost post (there must be some disagreement???)…pretty heavy duty stuff huh???

I’ll be honest. I just don’t know about it. To me, the horns are symbolic of power and strength as I have said in previous posts. Indeed, a follower of Islam would qualify as an “antichrist” per St. John’s first letter, chapter 2 verse 22: “Who is the liar, if not one who claims that Jesus is not the Christ? This is the Antichrist, who denies both the Father and the Son.” The followers of Islam certainly deny that Jesus is the Christ, and according to St. John, “whoever denies the Son cannot have the Father either; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father too.” Therefore, in denying the Son, the Muslims deny the Father. (By the way, these verses support what I said about being unable to separate the Father and the Son.)

The interpretation of the events which unfold in the Apocalypse as you have stated them is common in protestant apocalyptic interpretation. The Catholic Church does not concur. The Book of Revelation is ultimately a book of hope for those who are being persecuted for their faith in Jesus, since it relates of the triumph of the Church over her enemies as is promised by the Lord. The focus of the reader of the Book of Revelation should not be on specific events or the speculation of specific events, but should be on the promise of Christ for those who persevere.

 

[tommy4321]

I am understanding more of your view on the Holy Tinity and want admit some common ground on the explanation provided by Lillith that I will agree with to a cerain extent, but not completely. I can’t speak for the entire Jehovah’s Wittnesses organization because I have spent three years studying with them and four decades with Catholics and as one who has not completely gone through the commitment to God and fully converted to give Him complete devotion I want to make it real clear that my thoughts may not be 100% represented by their organization. You guys are hearing from someone here who feels more drawn to both God and Jesus over the last three years, but I am still not convinced that one organization has all the answers and believe we are all seeking truths.

Here is the common ground that I see between both of these organizations and some differences as well. I believe both organizations believe that there is a union between God and Jesus who act in agreement together and are not independant in thought, decision and judgement. Here is where I see the difference between the organizations. I think the Wittnesses think this and in my opinion agree with them here. God is the Almighty creator of the universe. God did not want to be alone (we are made in Gods image and share many of the same traits, anger and jealously for example) and he created his son, Jesus, in Heaven going back to the beginning. This is why God used the word “us” in the third chapter of Genesis.

However, with all due respect I see one huge difference in that Jesus wanted our sincere devotion given to his Father on a seperate level in my opinion. If you recall Jesus had two main commandments, one was to love one other like Jesus loved us. The second was to give complete devotion to his Father and I know that Jesus in not quoted as saying that the devotion to him should be equal to his father when in John 14:28 he is quoted as saying that is Father is greater of superior then him. I know we discussed this but I agree with your analogy that they both act in agreement and in union but I will admit that during worship, prayer and loyal devotion it goes through Jesus to God and still do not buy into the point that when you direct prayer to Jesus that it does not take away devotion to his Father and that is why I have stated that Satan has used the concept of the Trinity to downplay the devotion to God. I also want to say in all humility that I do respect your views in the Holy Trinity being a sacred belief among Catholics and sincerely hope that my differing or contrasting view is in no way taken to hurt anybody. This is only the opinion of a Bible student and I do not claim to know everything, especially about a topic as complex as this one.

However, from reading your posts I do somewhat understand where you are coming from that they act in union so therefore you believe they are both God, but I want to say I have read and understand what I also read that they are distinct from one another and thank you for the clarity Notice I am saying understanding here, but not agreeing because it is my opinion that is where religion has made a mistake and why I keep bringing up the name Yahweh and God. Could you imagine when Jesus was alive speaking in one of the temples if he came out with the name of God that was known at that time and said, “I am Yahweh” and watched the people melt in their chairs in front of his devine face in human glory. It would not have happened.
That is why I have said that it is really not a mystery, God is God and Jesus is His son who acts in agreement with everything about God, but are seperate and distinct which I think I have heard some acknowledge this and others say Jesus is God.

 

[tommy4321]

Lastly, I put up some real intense stuff on how Revelations effects all Countrys and religions. If it only effected the Islamic world would that not be racial profiling? I went into another religion comparative site after the London Bombings and heard merciful pleas from the Islamic world that they did not support the recent London bombings and it was against their religion, it was the smaller radical Islamic group. Even though they are wrong in my opinion that they do not realize that Jesus was the Christ and refer to him as a Prophet, they believe you have to go through Jesus to get to God. This amazed me to learn this.

We have had 1,124 hits to this post and does anyone believe that when Christ runs Satan out of this world that he is only going to go after one race, nation or religion? Satan is all over the world unfortunately and here in the US in our everyday daily lives and is the ruler of this world until Jesus runs him out. So lets say that it was just the Muslims that were the Antichrist and Charles Mansion was alive in San Quention State Prison and now read the Bible and joined any religion. Would Mansion have a chance as we know he will never repent? So if he was alive during the great tribulation he too as an Antichrist would be driven out. He too is part of the evil in my example and there are tens of thousands like him in our nation. My analogy would then mean all nations throughout the world will have members that Jesus will run out who follow Satan and it is not the Islamic world alone as an Antichrist. Also, the two horns I heard you speak of a post or two back referred to the world powers. Do these small nations make up world powers and are the two horns making up the wild beast? I don’t think so and would argue the point that it will be a world power?

Thanks for reading my posts even though I know I have gone over some touchy stuff that am am sure many don’t agree with, got kicked out twice, stressed on it for weeks and had to tweak my computer to get back in and woke up frustrated in the middle of the night with something I wanted to say when remarks were put up that I could only view and couldn’t get back on while banned. I have learned more about your beliefs too and thank you for it. I will say that not one religion has all the answers and are 100% right. I have my own views I have stated on the path is narrow and crampted and about how large organizations may have been misled by pegan beliefs and satans trickery.

I think the key is Godly devotion and Jesus’ two commandments that in my opinion bring out the true christians who obey these. God Bless, tommy

 

[tommy4321]

E.E.N.S.:

Tommy, you should listen to the set entitled “The End Times: A Study of the Book of Revelation” by Scott Hahn, I believe you will find it full of great information.

Peace.

thanks I will research, But please tell me a bit about it. I am curious???peace, tommy

 

[E.E.N.S]

tommy4321:

thanks I will research, But please tell me a bit about it. I am curious???peace, tommy

Forgive me, it’s called “The End…” not “The End Times…” lol
but here is a quote from the internet:

With The End, you’ll join Dr. Scott Hahn in an intense verse-by-verse study of the New Testament’s most prophetic book. And rather than reading it apart from the rest of the Bible, you’ll discover how the Apocalypse contains many of the critical interpretive keys necessary to understanding the entire Gospel! You’ll learn why Revelation is the ultimate “unveiling” whereby the Lord of the Universe reveals Himself to His Bride, the Church. And how its twenty-two chapters are a timely and timeless message of hope for believers suffering persecution and for those others struggling not to lose faith. With scholarly precision, Dr. Hahn examines the various ways that Protestants and Catholics understand the Book of Revelation, revealing how the prophecies of the Book of Revelation were first realized in the first-century transition from the Old Covenant to the New. And how these prophecies ultimately point to a future fulfillment when all of God’s creation will give way to a “new heaven and a new earth” when Christ Jesus will triumphantly return to judge the living and the dead.

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    Unlocking the secrets contained in this final and most difficult book of the Bible has never been easier with The End: A Study in the Book of Revelation audio series and study guide! Dr. Hahn's clear and comprehensive analysis opens up new avenues of understanding and spiritual insight into God's covenantal love, the infinite value of the Mass, the powerful intercession of the Saints, the critical role of the Blessed Virgin Mary and significant details concerning the end of the world. Purchase your set and study guide today and don't get "left behind!"

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[tommy4321]

Thanks E.E.N.S. so much for your response and yes this thread is missing one HUGE topic, New Heaven, New Earth and everlasting life.

What does it mean to you about everlasting life? Are we in spirit or physical form or perhaps some in physical and some spiritual? What is the New Heaven and the New Earth and how do they differ?

What about our loved ones, do we remember them? If we do remember them and they do not gain salvation will it make us unhappy if they are not there and we will miss them? Who will we see, Jesus, Moses, Noah and John?

Who would you like to see and what would you ask them? Will we be with Jesus, new companions, and/or family members.

The Earth was intended for everlasting life until Adam sinned and life spans were 950 years originally. That’s also how long Noah lived. Once Satan is driven out of the Earth, two thirds of the Earths population will be destroyed and we will have paradise Earth restored with true believers of Jesus Christ for 1,000 years while Satan is locked up in the Abyss according to Revelations. The 144,000 anointed ones will rule with Jesus in Heaven (new Heaven))for all prophecy in the Bible has come true. The believers in Christ who repented and excercised faith in Jesus will have a beautiful restored life in an Earthly paradise with no Satan influences. (New Earth). The quote that I was able to find on the New Earth and New Heaven comes from Isaiah 66:22 taken from the New Jerusalem Bible as follows: “For as the “new” heavens and the “new earth” I am making will endure before me, declares Yahweh, so will your race and name endure”. My question here is what the new earth and Heaven He is making? Perhaps some may know more then I know about this?

Throughout my Christian study of the Bible, I have noticed that there is not a lot known on the topic of the new Heaven and the new Earth as stated in Isaiah 66. I hear quite a bit of different variations about the afterlife, but really cannot gain a lot about the general view of what New Heaven and New Earth means to most people as stated by prophecy in Isaiah 66.

I believe the New Heaven has already happened or is about to when Satan gets hurled out of Heaven by Michael the Archangel (Jesus, we learn in my opinion through Revelations symbolism and the reference to Michael being the prince of princes in Jerimiah, gets the libertly of hurling the evil one out of Heaven))and things begin to get tougher down here on earth (when nation went against nation in world wars) with the evil one doing everthing he can before he gets locked up in the abyss for the 1,000 year reign. The new Earth is the tricky one. What can this mean, new Earth? The Earth has always been the same so whats a new Earth other then the evil one gets driven out?. My belief, is that the new Earth is here, or God will restore the Earth to how he intended it to be for Adam and Eve once the evil one is driven out after the great tribulation whereas we have an Earthly paradise. The new Heaven will be for the 144,000 ruling class in the new Heavenly government. This is only what I have learned and it is a hard subject, but an important one, as it is our future destiny and we are only given short glimpses through prophecy of the new Heaven and New Earth in the Bible. peace tommy

 

[E.E.N.S]

Well, I am pretty busy at work right now (believe it or not) so I can’t write as much as either one of us would like, but here are a few words:

Eye has not seen, ear has not heard, nor has it even entered the mind of man what God has in store for those who love Him…

We are embodied souls; we will have a glorified body. When we die and the soul leaves the body, it will be the most painful thing the human has ever experienced, and we will remain in an ‘unnatural state’ until Christ’s return…and upon His return we will be reunited with our bodies.

At this point knowledge of the details of the new heaven and new earth and not nearly as important as how we should be striving to live holy lives in conformity and uniformity with God’s will…as this is the way to perfection. (Though discussing the new heaven and earth is intersting I must admit!)