Revisions to Catholic Mass Take Effect on Sunday

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I don’t know of anyone who was confirmed in 5th grade at any time except when/if the Sacraments of Initiation are all given “simultaneously” (even in infancy).

The point that you missed is that intellectual understanding is not expected of 4th, 5th, 6th, or even 7th graders. Modest intellectual understanding would be available to a 6th grader, because that’s when his brain is capable of abstraction for the first time. As the Catholic grows intellectually and spiritually, both understanding and appreciation grows. As I mentioned (or implied), that’s even true of adults. Witness the many adult Catholics who testify that since attending some particular seminar, theological series, listening to a series of programs, reading certain material, etc. – they now understand the Mass (or some aspect of the Faith) more fully.

Mass is not catechesis. Mass is celebration, ritual, encounter, and opportunity for grace (in both the Hearing of the Word and the Reception of the Sacrament, within an experience of community which adds a further experiental dimension to it). There is a secondary opportunity for catechesis through the homily (if well done, which many are): that informal catechesis from the presider sometimes involves “only” the application of the scripture readings, and/or feast day signficance, to our everyday practical & spiritual lives. The homily sometimes additionally makes explicit reference to the relationship between some aspect of the Mass (Offertory or Eucharist, for example, or wording of the Mass prayers) to our lives. I’ve heard such informal catechesis being done in live homilies and in EWTN Mass homilies.
Since I knew several that could be why I originally missed your point when you included “Catholics who are Confirmed” among those the Church expects to inform themselves about vocabulary and theological concepts. Anyway while I understand what you are saying about the Mass, I can as well sometimes find myself spiritually enriched by other aspects of the Mass such as a good homily, music, and the wording of prayers and responses.
 
As credible I suppose as about anyone else’s notions about a translation.
My point was regarding his credibility on making a determination about the new translation leading to more reverence. That said, do you really think everyone’s assessment of the new translation is equally credible? If so, why did the Vatican turn down the US request to continue with the old translation? 🤷
 
My point was regarding his credibility on making a determination about the new translation leading to more reverence. That said, do you really think everyone’s assessment of the new translation is equally credible? If so, why did the Vatican turn down the US request to continue with the old translation? 🤷
Reread my post. I never said a thing about “everyone”.
 
Well, it’s been over a week now. I hope I adjust soon. Is it just me, or is anyone else finding it hard to follow the priest’s prayers? Hopefully, it’s just because I’m not used to them, but run on sentences are hard to follow, no matter how hard the priest tries to phrase the words together to make sense. Maybe I’ll just pray a rosary during mass if I can’t follow it?
 
Well, it’s been over a week now. I hope I adjust soon. Is it just me, or is anyone else finding it hard to follow the priest’s prayers? Hopefully, it’s just because I’m not used to them, but run on sentences are hard to follow, no matter how hard the priest tries to phrase the words together to make sense. Maybe I’ll just pray a rosary during mass if I can’t follow it?
There is punctuation included in the prayers, like commas and semicolons. I think, unfortunately, as many people aren’t taught in school that when reading you don’t pause at the end of every line but rather only at punctuation, many people often mess up reading out loud.
 
I love the new translation. And the Eucharistic prayers are beautiful. Father has been telling us which prayer he will use so that we can follow along.

He did make a mistake on one word and it is amazing how that changes the meaning of the phrase. And no I cannot remember exactly which word it was. (for those of you in the I hate the new translation land :D)
 
I love the new translation. And the Eucharistic prayers are beautiful. Father has been telling us which prayer he will use so that we can follow along.

He did make a mistake on one word and it is amazing how that changes the meaning of the phrase. And no I cannot remember exactly which word it was. (for those of you in the I hate the new translation land :D)
Me too. I haven’t had any problem understanding what father is praying. In fact, I find some of it almost poetic.
 
If the Mass was previously “dumbed down” as you, not I, put it, participants at a wider variety of levels could more equally participate and comprehend. Both you and I and the person in the pew next to us who might or might not be at our reading levels. I can recall in the 60s when speaking liturgy in the vernacular finally came into being, how many young and old alike were pleased. They were finally able to understand the words and the meanings in their own language. They were in essense able to get more out of the Mass. If these Catholics left the practice of the faith afterwards, it was because of other reasons. IMHO these revisions are not a step which will bring them back. So I just simply see no benefit whatsoever by making these changes in the Mass language.
Matt, I was ‘there’ in Philly when the very first vernacular liturgy came into play.

Guess what? It was almost word-for-word what this NEW translation was.

That very first happiness from understanding the ‘English’ came from a translation LIKE THE ONE WE HAVE JUST STARTED USING.

NOT from the one that started in 1970.

So your argument that ‘getting to understand the words’ relates not to the Mass of 1970 that you’re extolling, but from a Mass LIKE THE ONE WE HAVE NOW WITH THE NEW TRANSLATION.
 
Matt, I was ‘there’ in Philly when the very first vernacular liturgy came into play.

Guess what? It was almost word-for-word what this NEW translation was.

That very first happiness from understanding the ‘English’ came from a translation LIKE THE ONE WE HAVE JUST STARTED USING.

NOT from the one that started in 1970.

So your argument that ‘getting to understand the words’ relates not to the Mass of 1970 that you’re extolling, but from a Mass LIKE THE ONE WE HAVE NOW WITH THE NEW TRANSLATION.
👍
 
Well, it’s been over a week now. I hope I adjust soon. Is it just me, or is anyone else finding it hard to follow the priest’s prayers? Hopefully, it’s just because I’m not used to them, but run on sentences are hard to follow, no matter how hard the priest tries to phrase the words together to make sense. Maybe I’ll just pray a rosary during mass if I can’t follow it?
I hope you’re kidding. . .

I would suggest that if you have a St. Joseph’s Missal that you simply try reading the prayers at home to yourself until you ‘get the hang of them’. Or go online and read them there.

The run-on sentences are not all that difficult. Probably you’ve been exposed more to Hemingway and “Tweeting’”, that’s all. (Not that either is bad, of course. I enjoy Hemingway and I have tweeted). But try reading James Joyce “Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man” and Dickens’ “Bleak House” as well as Thackeray’s "Vanity Fair’ and I guarantee you won’t find the ‘run on’ sentences of the Mass to be nearly such a difficult concept.

It really is simply a matter of becoming accustomed to something different.

And save the rosary for after Mass or at Perpetual Adoration, not during Mass. The way to become accustomed to something new and different is to pay attention and get familiar with it, not to do something different and ignore it.
 
Well, it’s been over a week now. I hope I adjust soon. Is it just me, or is anyone else finding it hard to follow the priest’s prayers? Hopefully, it’s just because I’m not used to them, but run on sentences are hard to follow, no matter how hard the priest tries to phrase the words together to make sense. Maybe I’ll just pray a rosary during mass if I can’t follow it?
You will never learn to follow it if you never listen. Besides praying a rosary during mass, isn’t that like a sin? Aren’t we supposed to be praying the mass during mass and not a rosary?
 
:angel1::signofcross::gopray2:
**It was a humbling experience for me, as a convert since only 2004, to realize the deeper meanings behind the new words. I do like the return to the phrasing “through my fault, my grievous fault,” and realized I have much to learn.

I did stumble a bit at the “And with your Spirit,” but again, to be humbled is not a bad thing at all. The changes make me re-think each word, each phrase, and I remember that these changes were made by people more intelligent than I.

I actually felt more child-like, more focused, and as I am now sponsoring a friend through her own RCIA experience, I was very happy to see how she had been studying the changes very intensely. I, being used to having things memorized, was humbled to have to read from the pew cards and new portions in the booklet printed out for everyone. This was good for my soul. Language is important, and I’ll be working very hard to get this right, and to keep a spirit of patience with myself and others as we go through this.
Blessings**
 
You will never learn to follow it if you never listen. Besides praying a rosary during mass, isn’t that like a sin? Aren’t we supposed to be praying the mass during mass and not a rosary?
It’s not a sin, but it’s not exactly the best thing.
 
Matt, I was ‘there’ in Philly when the very first vernacular liturgy came into play.

Guess what? It was almost word-for-word what this NEW translation was.

That very first happiness from understanding the ‘English’ came from a translation LIKE THE ONE WE HAVE JUST STARTED USING.

NOT from the one that started in 1970.

So your argument that ‘getting to understand the words’ relates not to the Mass of 1970 that you’re extolling, but from a Mass LIKE THE ONE WE HAVE NOW WITH THE NEW TRANSLATION.
🤷 Very first happiness could have turned into greater happiness in '70. But it doesn’t matter. It was what it was and it is what it is.
 
I hope you’re kidding. . .

I would suggest that if you have a St. Joseph’s Missal that you simply try reading the prayers at home to yourself until you ‘get the hang of them’. Or go online and read them there.

The run-on sentences are not all that difficult. Probably you’ve been exposed more to Hemingway and “Tweeting’”, that’s all. (Not that either is bad, of course. I enjoy Hemingway and I have tweeted). But try reading James Joyce “Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man” and Dickens’ “Bleak House” as well as Thackeray’s "Vanity Fair’ and I guarantee you won’t find the ‘run on’ sentences of the Mass to be nearly such a difficult concept.

It really is simply a matter of becoming accustomed to something different.

And save the rosary for after Mass or at Perpetual Adoration, not during Mass. The way to become accustomed to something new and different is to pay attention and get familiar with it, not to do something different and ignore it.
Any good public speaker knows that written language and spoken language are very different. If the text is written for proclamation, you need to be very careful about long, run-on sentences. A comma, or worse, a semi-colon or dash, just don’t do enough to help a listener to follow the train of thought.

The notion that each person would follow on in their own book in order to make sense of the liturgical text turns a communal celebration into a private affair and thus defeats the purpose of the liturgy. Liturgical texts are intended to be listened to and appropriately responded to by the congregation, rather than followed along in a book. The ancient liturgical texts had problems that the modern translation could have fixed, but did not fix. The desire for a wooden adherence to the ancient text – liturgical fundamentalism – trumped the desire for meaningful liturgy that fostered full, knowing and active participation by the congregation.
 
You will never learn to follow it if you never listen. Besides praying a rosary during mass, isn’t that like a sin? Aren’t we supposed to be praying the mass during mass and not a rosary?
What do you think large numbers of people did when the Mass was in Latin?
 
I can’t help but notice that the posters here who are most critical of the new changes are Obama supporters.
 
I can’t help but notice that the posters here who are most critical of the new changes are Obama supporters.
Huh? How on earth do criticisms of the revisions to the Missal have any connection whatsoever to Democratic politics? Completely irrelevant.
 
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