Revoke the U.S. Indult on Standing for Holy Communion

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centurionguard said:
The changes were radical at best. What was it that Pope Paul VI said near his death,
(“The Smoke of Satan has Entered the Church”).
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It wasn’t near his death. Maybe you’re thinking “Stop the Council! Stop the Council” alleged to Pope John XXIII as he was dying?
 
Mattapoisett64 said:
Is “novus ordo worship site” a term meant to indicate “a Catholic church where the Ordinary Form of the Liturgy is celebrated?” And if you do not recognize either the Ordinary Form as a valid Catholic liturguy, or the church in which it is celebrated as a true Catholic church, does that put you in schism?
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👍
 
Seamus_L said:
1.)Mandating it would be a positive step towards restoration and increased reverence for the eucharist. We should always show humility when receiving Jesus in the eucharist. In many churches, along with the communion rails, they’ve removed the kneelers and the confessionals. **2.)A person who refuses to kneel is a person who has no humility. **
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                         In regards to Eastern Catholics receiving communion standing, it should be added that **3.) they perform a bending at the knees in reverence to Our Lord as they receive.**
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1.) That’s your opinion. You cannot prove that.

2.) A person who feels they know better than the Church is in for a very frustrating time.

3.) No we do not. We profoundly bow while the person ahead of us is receiving. If we happen to bend at the knee (usually taller people) it’s so the priest can place the Blessed Sacrament in our mouths easier. It’s certainly not a knee-bend designed to show reverence.
 
Well, standing up, to receive the Body of Christ The King, into your hand, from a laywoman, is an improvement on the previous practice of kneeling to receive from your priest because …

well …

Hmmmm.
 
ProVobis said:
cathapol.blogspot.com/2006/06/did-pope-say-smoke-of-satan-has.html
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He never said it near his death bed but his supposed words are recounted in a homily and as Jimmy Akin noted “It is thus clear–if the reportage of what Paul VI said is even remotely right, that he was not claiming that there were Satanists in the Vatican (as some have claimed), nor is he linking the “smoke of Satan” with the Second Vatican Council itself or the liturgical reforms that followed it or anything like that. He perceives the work of the Council as a good thing that has been thwarted–or partially thwarted–by the social crisis that was breaking out in the developed world at this time. In other words, he’s responding to the cultural crisis of the late 1960s and early 1970s and its impact on the Church using a poetic image and attributing it (rightly) to the work of the devil, but he is not making the kind of sensationalistic claims that some have used to interpret this phrase.”

jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2006/11/the_smoke_of_sa.html
 
centurionguard said:
It is my belief from Catholic books that I have read decades past that many hundreds of thousands of priests, and even some bishops and cardinals were angered and dismayed by the many drastic changes from the TLM to the new Novus Ordo Mass.
Proof of this is from the droves of Jesuit priests that left and resigned their priesthood after 1965. The change in the Mass left an awful deep wound in the Church. Needless to say that profound wound is still quite evident today and it will be for a very long time to come.
Pope John Paul II knew of this and so does Pope Benedict XVI.
The changes were radical at best. What was it that Pope Paul VI said near his death,
(“The Smoke of Satan has Entered the Church”).
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The “smoke of satan” remark was part of Pope Paul’s homily given on the Feast of Saints Peter and Paul on June 29, 1972. I looked it up once & it can be found on the Holy See’s web site, but it takes a bit of searching.
 
CradleCath said:
The “smoke of satan” remark was part of Pope Paul’s homily given on the Feast of Saints Peter and Paul on June 29, 1972. I looked it up once & it can be found on the Holy See’s web site, but it takes a bit of searching.
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In case anyone’s interested, it can be found here. The item is in Italian.
 
ChurchTorch said:
1.)3.) We profoundly bow while the person ahead of us is receiving.
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As I attend the OF on the weekdays, I didn’t even know we’re supposed to. But I do see others doing it…just before they receive in the hand.

I wish they’d go back to the communion rail. Things were so much simpler and less distracting.
 
Canto said:
He perceives the work of the Council as a good thing that has been thwarted–or partially thwarted–by the social crisis that was breaking out in the developed world at this time.
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One would expect any Pope to praise the very council he convened. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt, however, but it would be nice to know what exactly prompted the Pope to say what he did that day. Any good PR out of this has been quite lacking.
 
I’ve been to two of the largest Eastern Catholic churches in the US several times, and nearly everyone I saw, short or tall, receiving communion was doing a bending of the knees as the spoon was placed in there mouths.
I'll have to watch carefully next time I'm at an OF mass, but I can't seem to remember anyone bowing before they received.
 
In the Eastern Catholic Churches everyone stands because it is considered the more reverent posture. Some may bend their knees so the priest can more easily drop the body and blood of Chirst into the mouth. One is receiving the Lord. When one meets or receives an important person one stands. Kneeling is penetential. If you are going to receive Holy Communion you should have repented of your sins before hand in confession.
 
ProVobis said:
Not when one greets his king (or a Pope or a Cardinal, for that matter.)
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You are correct, that is the Western Custom taken from the Western Roman Empire whose capital was Rome.

T-he Eastern Custom taken from the Eastern Roman Empire whose capital was in Byzantium (which was renamed Constantinople, which was renamed Istanbul (why the name change? That’s nobody’s business but the Turks (all who get where this comes from know that I am impressed) is to Stand. Kneeling was penitential in nature.

I think kneeling would not be a bad idea but any outward sign that you see as reverence does not mean that it has an inner dimension. I am always worried when people want to force certain outward signs of things like reverence, poverty, and such. There needs to be a deeper catechisis on these things, a person who is kneeling and receiving on the tongue may have less reverence and belief in the Eucharist than the next person who stands and receives on the hand but I know that many here would view the first person as being more reverent (I might even do so) which is a flaw that all of us must look at within our selves and reflect upon.

I also believe that we need to look at incluturation, there are not many countries in the West that have Monarchies so is kneeling still appropriate? In the Untied States we stand when the President enters the room. We must look at what kneeling means to the people, for myself it is penitential but then as you know I am a Byzantine Catholic, but in a Latin Order so when I do attend the Mass I kneel when it is called for.

I suggest we all read the parable of the Publican and the Pharisee (Lk 18:9-14).
 
It’s a public, sacred, rite of worship of an imperial deity. Heaven is not a democracy. We are the Roman Catholic Church.

Dumping outer signs of reverence at such an occasion makes no sense at all. MIght as well stay home and send out for an EMHC. Masses now look more like school recitals; they have the same atmosphere, except around the consecration.

What a rotten swizz the post-Vat II changes were. We come to see holiness and glory and we get kids pictures under the altar and Mrs. Goodlady handing out communion beside the priest, in minimalist churches.

It’s a sacred rite of worship, they argue. The Bishops allow it, they argue. But bit by bit, after the first great iconoclam of 1969, they’ve moved the mundane right up to the altar and even upon it.
 
Since this was posted in the Traditional Forum I hope everyone realised we were referring to the Latin Rite.
It's from They Might Be Giants, Byzcath, and somewhere I have a live recording when they performed it in Chicago 2 decades ago.
 
Seamus_L said:
Since this was posted in the Traditional Forum I hope everyone realised we were referring to the Latin Rite.
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Yes that was the reason for my post to clarify what is done and where. It would help greatly if the forum name was the Traditional Latin Catholic Forum but that is an argument for another day.

In the West the kneeling before the monarch/leader/commander was done out of submission and subservience as when one knelt they could not draw their weapon and attack the leader without being easily stopped. For myself, knowing history and knowing that execution style murders today are done with the victim on their kneels makes me consider the current discipline acceptable.

But to each his own. And as they say, when in Rome do as the Romans.
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                             It's from They Might Be Giants, Byzcath, and somewhere I have a live recording when they performed it in Chicago 2 decades ago.
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You are my hero;
 
Matariel said:
I believe it is of grave importance to change this, as I think many Catholics have lost respect for the Eucharist— inbetween bad catechesis and standing for Communion (some don’t even bow, as is technically required) 😦
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: You’ve got that right, honey! 😦 It’s the very least we can do. I bow and after receiving I take my right hand and put it to my heart, which I learned from a 90 year old lady that could not get down and then up. Of course, I never thought I’d see the day where in just six months afterward I’d have to do it because there was no opportunity to kneel :confused:
 
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